A visit to the heart of global repdom: Guangzhou Watch City

[hkbob 0]

Inspired by this thread, http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=2290&hl=&fromsearch=1, I decided to see things for myself.

 

Near the main railway station in Guangzhou is a vast area of watch & parts suppliers which give life to the reps (& all mushroom brands) we see. The locals call it the Guangzhou Clock & Watch City (in literal translation); so let's call it GWC for short.

 

First impression: was that although chaotic, it wasn't over-my-head overwhelming feeling conveyed in the other thread - perhaps because that thread prepped me, or maybe the recent heavy-handed crackdown had its intended effects. Apparently, the day before I arrived, the police raided part of GWC, and the vendors were all a little skittish. More on that later. Jumping ahead, I got only 3 watches:

 

It's very, very difficult, and it takes a strong dose of self control, to walk away from GWC with only 3 watches, even though I was there really only one full day. I wasn't planning to buy anything, but then people start throwing giveaway prices at me, and I caved ....... That's one advantage of visiting GWC in person. Vendors will offload unwanted inventory at extremely low prices if you look like a serious buyer. A word of caution: check these items thoroughly & carefully. Some of them, have flaws waiting to be discovered - maybe they are acceptable to you, maybe not, but you need to find them, then decide.

 

I went there in part because I wanted to see the top-caliber pieces in person before sending money in. It turned out very few high-caliber pieces were available for viewing, but only for pre-order. In other words, to see one you have to pay a deposit - maybe as little as $16 (100 yuan), but that's the cost of seeing one in person - unless you are lucky, somebody else ordered one but hasn't been picked up yet. I was told this is due to the recent crackdown. Vendors do not want to risk losing their most expensive pieces in a raid.

 

However, I saw enough high, mid & low end pieces to have a much better idea than before. In my mind at least, top-caliber watches have sapphire crystals, ETA movement or good clones by Seagull, Hangzhou, Shanghai, real turbillion, 1-to-1 rep, impeccable finish, and costs $400 (US) & up. Low-end are probably south of $100 with quartz or unreliable mechanical movement, never a 1-to-1 rep, but may have a very decent dial. Mid-end is everything in-between. Keep in mind to divide those numbers by 2, if you are there in person, pretending to be a re-seller, and haranguing them in Chinese.

 

Which bucket do my 3 watches fall into ? The answer may surprise you.

 

Ever since a blue FF fell into my lap, (see this thread http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=102162&hl=&fromsearch=1) I have been on a quest to find the ultimate rep of this watch, especially after I got a chance to hold a gen in my hands. I didn't find it; I got the black one instead, because.......

 

On the blue FF, I asked over 10 vendors and got the same answer (must pre-order). Some told me mine is the top version. Some told me there are two versions above mine. Most told me mine is mid and there is one version better. Surprisingly, even some people who deals with this stuff daily don't know what's what, so I gave up, and got the black FF instead.

 

 

The black FF is not top-end; it may not even be mid-end. But still it looks pretty good. The movement is Beijing (not sure which), no sapphire here, and the strap is considerably flimsier than the blue FF and much less comfortable when you are sweating, but it's a worthy back-up prize after giving up on my quest for the top-end blue FF. I remember in an earlier thread discussing the quality of FF rep strap vs. gen. Well, there is a huge gap in strap quality even among reps.

 

The Radiomir is a pure impulse, pure souvenir buy. I hadn't researched this watch; had no idea if it's a good rep, but I just loved the look, and again the price made it irresistible. I think this is old inventory that the guy just really wanted to offload, hence the deal. Again, something to look forward to when you visit GWC.

 

I really do love this Radiomir from all angles

 

The joke (and reality) goes that from high to low, there is the English price, the Mandarin price, and the local dialect price. In the middle of a conversation between a vendor and a couple of guys from Middle East, everyone in broken English negotiating the price of this watch (not my pic)

 

I cut in to ask how much, in Mandarin. I was given a price roughly $50 lower than the price being negotiated. It was very tempting, with a nice Shanghai movement. But it was late, near closing time, and I felt rushed - and I never buy anything rushed.

 

Finally, had to get something for the Mrs. This is the watch which I found through wechat (explain later) at a very decent price.

 

This rep, a simple two-hand quartz watch with date, is a far cry from the gen - but the dial looks close enough & very nice. And, in person in GWC, the price is 30% lower than an already attractive wechat price. This watch also comes in rose gold (rep) & black dial (fantasy)

 

For those of you who have too much time to kill, download this app called "wechat" (it's the Chinese version of Whatsapp, but with more functions). After that, you can find people who post pictures of reps in their account. You can't really talk to them unless you are fluent in Chinese, but the pictures are nice to look at. This is how reps are primarily sold in China - through circles of "friends" on wechat & based on posted pictures in their accounts. WARNING: This is suitable ONLY for those with way too much time to kill.

 

The vendors in GWC all want you to have their wechat (where everybody's rep pictures are posted) so you can easily send them someone else's of a rep, and they'll all get it for you at the "best price". Well, having seen them in person, seen where they do business, maybe even bought from them, it's not a bad way to make your rep purchases.

 

I almost forgot - the total damage for my 3 watches came out to ~$160.

[NFleischer 4,355]

Good job mate. Seems like at the end of the day we're just as well off ordering

 

from one of the TD's.

[baselogo 1]

nice pick ups. that rad is the bomb

[cubicle_monkey 0]

That looks like a NoobBFF and KW/V6 Pam....

[Eto33 0]

Great post !

[Left Coast Guy 24]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing!!

 

Love that the price depends on language and dialect...not a surprise, as much as how much of a difference it makes!!

[afrowillson 0]

Great post. Planning a trip there myself at the end of the year

[BadPickle 2,738]

TBH, you could have just created this story laid on a beach in the Maldives, and the reality is, who would know??? A picture of market shops, which obviously are downloaded from the Internet judging by the url thingy imprinted in the pic, a few pics of some watches, and a load of jibber-jabber about watches that we already knew, or could have found out by doing 5 mins googling.

 

Nah, I'm not buying it pal, anyone else would be camera crazy taking real time market hustle and bustle..... You're on a rep forum, this is our "Mecca" you're supposed to have visited......

 

 

I see you've fooled the sheep already tho,

[dfq23 126]

That looks like a NoobBFF and KW/V6 Pam....

 

Noob BPFF is sapphire. Way to tell is the lugs. If it's hex lug screws and sapphire it's noob. Hex Mineral and low beat then it's probably the same one stu got this week

[hkbob 0]

All the pictures (except where noted) ARE on the web, in my personal picasa album. Good luck finding them

 

And yes, for high-end stuff from Noob and the like, you are just as well off ordering from home. Although I would say that, for a $500 watch, it might be worth paying $16 to take a look before forking over the rest. It's better to drop $16 than $500 + a huge regret. I didn't go for it because I didn't stay long enough. Normally you pre-order during the day, and need to wait at least until 7pm the same day, or next day, to get it.

 

Nothing at the price range I paid is Noob or anything close, but some of them have incredibly detailed well-made, top-caliber dials and/or case (like the black FF & Radiomir I bought) matched to mediocre or quartz movement, mineral glass instead of sapphire, and inferior straps. These tend to be older production run models. I think these high-end dials/cases were leftover from the prior production runs in high-end factories which got sold into the dealer market cheaply, and end up in small runs by smaller shops. You probably can only find these gems in person in GWC. For these it might be less risky to go quartz (Radiomir & Hermes are both quartz, but they have no second hands anyways.)

 

I came across a few others which I would put in this "gem" category. There was an incredibly sharp looking Roger Dubuis Excalibur double turbillion but with fake turby of course (not my pic)

 

There was also this one for such a ridiculous price that I couldn't have any confidence in the movement, and didn't have enough time to stay & check it out closely (not my pic)

 

If you plan to go there sometimes, I would say, leave some time for randomness & just browse. You might discover some incredibly good looking bargains. If you got a checklist of high-end watches to bring home, then be sure to stay at least one overnight, and don't leave before late pm the next day. The activities barely begin at noon, and shuts down by 9.

Edited August 9, 2015 by hkbob

[RUSH2112 11]

Meh, if you buy a $500 watch and don't like it you're not in a world of regret. You list it here, take a small "loss," and move on. If I spend the money to get to china I'm going to see sites and try to get some experience in the culture, not shop for reps.

[rawbaws 91]

I'm assuming it's only a two hour train trip from Hong Kong. I'd guess op lives there

[cogwatch 1]

Meh, if you buy a $500 watch and don't like it you're not in a world of regret. You list it here, take a small "loss," and move on. If I spend the money to get to china I'm going to see sites and try to get some experience in the culture, not shop for reps.

 

Having been to China quite a bit and speaking a bit of Chinese (my wife is from China), I would actually consider going to look at and shop for reps in Guangzhou part of "trying to get some experience in the culture". There's 2000 year old culture in China, and current culture. Both are interesting.

[RUSH2112 11]

Meh, if you buy a $500 watch and don't like it you're not in a world of regret. You list it here, take a small "loss," and move on. If I spend the money to get to china I'm going to see sites and try to get some experience in the culture, not shop for reps.

 

Having been to China quite a bit and speaking a bit of Chinese (my wife is from China), I would actually consider going to look at and shop for reps in Guangzhou part of "trying to get some experience in the culture". There's 2000 year old culture in China, and current culture. Both are interesting.

Different opinions. If someone was coming to visit USA malls and flea markets wouldn't be on the list of places I would suggest they go. Too many other things to do.

[Realism 72]

Meh, if you buy a $500 watch and don't like it you're not in a world of regret. You list it here, take a small "loss," and move on. If I spend the money to get to china I'm going to see sites and try to get some experience in the culture, not shop for reps.

 

Having been to China quite a bit and speaking a bit of Chinese (my wife is from China), I would actually consider going to look at and shop for reps in Guangzhou part of "trying to get some experience in the culture". There's 2000 year old culture in China, and current culture. Both are interesting.

Different opinions. If someone was coming to visit USA malls and flea markets wouldn't be on the list of places I would suggest they go. Too many other things to do.

 

yep. exactly...

[Sakurai 1]

Don't you have any actual pics of the scenery that you could share? If so it would be really nice to see and get a glimpse of the atmosphere.

[hkbob 0]

Great wall - check

Forbidden City - check

The Bund Shanghai - check

Shanghai Financial District - check

Hangzhou West Lake - check

Lijiang, Yunnan - check

Jiuzhaigou - check

Huangshan - check

GWC - check

 

Have been to China too many times. Throes of crowd is everywhere and isn't interesting enough for me to take pictures. Anyways there are thousands of GWC pictures if you google. I have tons of pictures from my earlier trips, but those aren't relevant.

 

Having said that, I wish I had my camera ready when a municipal cleaner was hosing down the vast square in front of the train station with a fire hose at 9 in the morning - to cool down the area on a very hot day The water jet flew about 30 feet high and 100 feet down and got a lot of people wet, but that didn't faze him at all. I also got 25 rambutans and two huge ready-to-eat slices of cantaloupe on a stick from street vendors - all for next to nothing - for lunch. Sorry no pictures.

 

As one who grew up in US, I'd say if somebody has been to all the sights but not flea markets, I would recommend that - it's quite a cultural experience.

[mysterio 18]

Great wall - check

Forbidden City - check

The Bund Shanghai - check

Shanghai Financial District - check

Hangzhou West Lake - check

Lijiang, Yunnan - check

Jiuzhaigou - check

Huangshan - check

GWC - check

 

Have been to China too many times. Throes of crowd is everywhere and isn't interesting enough for me to take pictures. Anyways there are thousands of GWC pictures if you google. I have tons of pictures from my earlier trips, but those aren't relevant.

 

Having said that, I wish I had my camera ready when a municipal cleaner was hosing down the vast square in front of the train station with a fire hose at 9 in the morning - to cool down the area on a very hot day The water jet flew about 30 feet high and 100 feet down and got a lot of people wet, but that didn't faze him at all. I also got 25 rambutans and two huge ready-to-eat slices of cantaloupe on a stick from street vendors - all for next to nothing - for lunch. Sorry no pictures.

 

As one who grew up in US, I'd say if somebody has been to all the sights but not flea markets, I would recommend that - it's quite a cultural experience.

 

Well of course there is Google, but since you decided to post on your own experience of the area that interests the members of this particular forum, a few actual pictures of the GWC whilst you were there would have been far more appreciated (if you wished to share the picture of the street cleaner and the fruit, it is up to you). It's like telling friends and family of your trip to Paris (where most of the people you were sharing the story with have never been) when you went up the Eiffel tower or walked the Avenue des Champs-Elysees or stood beside the Arc de Triomphe, and then having no pictures to show for it. You may have gone there many times, but that shouldn't stop you from taking a few shots, what with the digital age nowadays, you can take as many pictures as you want and not be so picky.

[Xpletiv 16]

I've been to Singapore on business. Had to goto the flea market and all of those endless malls. Experience it was, but no need to do it again or rave about it. To each their own.

[diarrheamouth 1]

bravo...makes the rep game more real seeing the belly of the beast.

 

thks

[hkbob 0]

Well of course there is Google, but since you decided to post on your own experience of the area that interests the members of this particular forum, a few actual pictures of the GWC whilst you were there would have been far more appreciated (if you wished to share the picture of the street cleaner and the fruit, it is up to you). It's like telling friends and family of your trip to Paris (where most of the people you were sharing the story with have never been) when you went up the Eiffel tower or walked the Avenue des Champs-Elysees or stood beside the Arc de Triomphe, and then having no pictures to show for it. You may have gone there many times, but that shouldn't stop you from taking a few shots, what with the digital age nowadays, you can take as many pictures as you want and not be so picky.

 

Well, yes. I posted the pictures of the watches, which I thought was more interesting, and more relevant to this crowd. How I misjudged

Here's another one (not my pic). Very well made in details, very reasonably priced (sensed someone trying to offload old inventory, and very tempting but I didn't pull the trigger. Might have to go back & get it (& and take street pictures to post

[RUSH2112 11]

Well of course there is Google, but since you decided to post on your own experience of the area that interests the members of this particular forum, a few actual pictures of the GWC whilst you were there would have been far more appreciated (if you wished to share the picture of the street cleaner and the fruit, it is up to you). It's like telling friends and family of your trip to Paris (where most of the people you were sharing the story with have never been) when you went up the Eiffel tower or walked the Avenue des Champs-Elysees or stood beside the Arc de Triomphe, and then having no pictures to show for it. You may have gone there many times, but that shouldn't stop you from taking a few shots, what with the digital age nowadays, you can take as many pictures as you want and not be so picky.

 

Well, yes. I posted the pictures of the watches, which I thought was more interesting, and more relevant to this crowd. How I misjudged

Here's another one (not my pic). Very well made in details, very reasonably priced (sensed someone trying to offload old inventory, and very tempting but I didn't pull the trigger. Might have to go back & get it (& and take street pictures to post

That's a beauty

[k3rm87 176]

Great post, always enjoy reading up information regarding the home of our reps.

 

Sounds like an interesting place to visit, I would probably come home with a lot more.

[hkbob 0]

Here's something I found out by being there in person - by accident.

A higher-version rep may have better movement, better crystal, but NOT necessarily a better sharper dial.

 

I was shown a cheaper Santos (DG movement, mineral glass), then I asked for their best version, which had sapphire & ETA or Seagull 2836 (either a JF or a V6, but not sure which). Then I noticed that the cheaper one had much sharper & better dial. When I pointed this out to the vendor (it was pretty obvious), she said she never noticed. I said how is this possible. She said they came from different factories, and they just get sold as is. I checked other vendors later; it's the same dial difference. Santos was on my to-buy list; after this little incident I changed my mind.

 

I now also have two Fifty Fathoms, and the cheaper one (black with Beijing or DG movement + mineral glass) has a sharper looking dial than the more expensive one (blue with Seagull 2824 + sapphire). I am comparing a black against a blue, but it's pretty obvious which has better details.

 

Just beware.

Edited August 10, 2015 by hkbob

[Poolsfinest 1]

Nice post hkbob. Don't let the conspiracy theorists upset you too much