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PAM 064 – Review and Evaluation of H maker rep from March 2016

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ALE7575

This thread is an extract from PAM Reference GUIDE of PAM 064

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection.

https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/107365-quot-Reference-PAM-REVIEW-GUIDE-quot-Replica-Search-Identification-Evaluation-amp-Selection

 

This thread will give you all information, data and links about the PAM 064 H amker rep published in the main forums and the comments and evaluations made by myself after reading and study the reps, all available information and all the pics and QC pics published and received by e-mail and PM.

 

This watch is specially difficult to be reviewed by comparisons due to the gen shows many variations between series and batches, because it is more hand made finished than new watches and because the Tritium lume dial ages differently depending on many factors.

As usually, the final evaluation that I have given, although considered after many hours of study and trying to be an average of general consensus, could have, unavoidably, some subjective component.

Anyway, with all comments and links included in this thread you can get info enough to make your own Evaluation more adapted to your taste.

People could easily get many different opinions regarding the final conclusions. Owner opinions are usually based in their own reps (one or two units) and sometimes are biased to their reps.

As above commented I have tried to be as impartial as possible and to get and average of the general opinions and myself one.

 

 

PAM 064 – Review and Evaluation of H maker rep from March 2016

 

PAM064%20copiar_zpszz9bf9y2.jpg

EVALUATIONS:

(*) FIRST CLASS REP Low level (H maker C-series w/A7750)

The gen PAM 064 was the first Panerai Submersible 1000m. originally released for the C-series (2000) as a Unique Special Edition of 500 pcs. Leaving aside the big Egiziano, the PAM 064 was the biggest and nastiest Panerai so far, with 5mm thick sapphire crystal and a Helium release value, black dial with silver seconds sub-dial @9 and date window @3, this watch is known (with good reason) as "La Bomba" (The Bomb) in Italy.

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Special_93.html

Much to the consternation of collectors, who thought they were buying a unique edition, promptly appeared the PAM 087 D-series (2001) with a flat blue dial, an engraving 1000m on the crown-lock, thinner bezel stick markers and few other changes.

PAM 064 is a Submersible, with most design hints taken from the vintage Egiziano, with Luminor type 44mm case, skeleton hands, date under a cyclops @3, unidirectional bezel and Tritium ochre- yellowish lume. It has a small seconds subdial @9 in silver colour in contrast with the black dial which gives the watch a strong personality.

It differs from the regular old Submersible in that it has thicker (5mm) crystal, a Helium release valve, and a heavier case. The crystal is also slightly smaller than the regular old Subs, because the bezel is wider. The movement is the regular automatic OPIII for the gen and the A7750 for the rep.

 

 

- PAM 064 C-series H maker w/A7750

March 2016- H maker released a rep of PAM 064 C-series fitted with a movement A7750 with OPIII engraved rotor.

This rep is based on the rep PAM 087 from the same maker. Due to that, since the gens casesets are almost the same, this rep has the same qualities and flaws as the rep of PAM 087

Many of the features and flaws of this rep can be seen in the reviews of H maker PAM 087:

https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/302071-*PCTeam*-PAM-087-%96-Overview-and-Evaluation-of-all-reps-%96-April-2016

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=116198

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?267463-PAM-087-%96-Overview-and-Evaluation-of-all-reps-%96-April-2016

CASE:

Case shape is overall accurate, without obvious differences of dimensions and profiles, just the lugs are a bit different as you can see in below comparison pics. Gen lugs are thinner and their flat base is smaller than rep base. Gen lugs look lighter tan rep. Lug holes position is accurate enough. See above commented reviews of PAM 087 to see the differences

Gen finish is very good but it has not the uniformity of new PAM watches and it looks more “hand made” and more inconsistent between batches than reps. Rep finish looks more uniform and “machined”. Maybe gen is better in the space between lugs and lug contours (mainly in the zone between the upper part of the lugs and the cushion shape edge). Brushing is accurate with some gens because there are a lot of variations between gens. Gen is overall more rounded and all edges of the case are nicely rounded getting a soft appearance. Rep case, although is very nicely made looks beautiful but sharper and crisp, somehow a bit inaccurate. You can see these differences of sharpness in the comparison pics of the PAM 087 reviews above commented

Anyway, very good job from H maker regarding the case.

BEZEL:

Like happened in rel PAM 087 , rep bezel shape is overall accurate with nice and accurate knurling but rougher brushing than gen. Gen bezel usually has more fine and uniform brushing than rep, but the rep is good enough. Rep bezel knurling is not as clean as gen but is accurate in practice at real size and looks nice.

The outer upper edge of the rep bezel is not as rounded as gen and the transition edge between the vertical surface of the bezel and the rounded edge is smoother in gen, rep usually shows a little corner between the rounded edge and the vertical surface.

Bezel dots and markers are overall accurate, although rep numerals looks smaller than gen ones, Besidfes, sometimes rep numeral bezel markers are placed a bit off center.

The difference between Pam 087 and 064 bezel are the black stick markers from 12 to 3 hrs. Gen Pam 064 has clearly thicker markers. The rep from H maker has also thicker markers but they are different from gen.

Short stick marker under the pearl is longer and thinner than gen one. Short stick markers under dots are shorter and thinner tha gen ones. These markers are not as nicely defined as gen but they are good enough in this regard at real size. You can see aboce commented on below comparison pics.

 

PAM%20064%20BEZ.MARKERSampPEARL-%20COMPARISON-xxxxx_zpslbldosby.jpg

PAM 064 BEZEL STICK MARKERS FROM 12 TO 3 hrs. AND PEARL - GEN–H MAKER COMPARISON

 

Rep pearl has accurate enough rim and shape. See above comparison pic. Regarding the pearl colour, it is not possible to talk about differences and accuracy because not only the gen PAM 087 has different colours of pearls depending on the material used by Panerai, but it depends a lot on the angle of view, the lighting and the aging of the lume material.

Anyway the rep pearl is a bit darker in general and for my taste should be lighter. A little flaw in my opinion.

CROWN & CROWN-GUARD

We can write here the same observations written about the rep of PAM 087. And you will get mnore info and pics in above commented reviews of PAM 087.

Crown and crown tube are accurate although they are less polished than gen as usually

Gen Crown Guard has more rounded edges in general than rep, it is like in the case, even the gen CG lever has more rounded edges.

Obviously old gen PAMs didn’t have the impressive finish quality of new ones. That affects also the inner corners of the CG. The finish of H maker rep is even better, but that makes the rep CG somehow inaccurate.

I have seen many gen pics from different sources and what I see is that the inner CG corners of the gen are not either squared or rounded, they are originally “chamfered”. In the same way as PAM 087, PAM 056 and PAM 061. H maker has already proved the capacity to get this “chamfered” inner corners, because H maker has already got this feature in the reps of PAM 056 and 061.

Due to the little inconsistency of gen finish in those old models we can find gens from perfectly “chamfered” inner corners to slightly rounded corners. The reason is well explained for PolonusTM is his nice review:

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=262619 by PolonusTM

https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/278073-H-factory-PAM-087F-photos-and-comments by PolonusTM

Consult PAM 087 reviews to see the differences in comparison pics

Like in PAM 087, another issue that I have found reviewing the H maker PAM 064 is the misalignment between the inner sides of the CG hollow. You can see this misalignment in below pic, observing the differences between the orange correctly aligned lines and the blue misaligned lines. The misalignment is produced either at the top or at the bottom. Most likely these misalignments are produced because the CG doesn’t fit correctly the mid-case being a little open. When you tighten the CG with the screws, the CG takes the shape of the mid-case reducing the angle of the inner corners and producing those misalignments of the inner sides.

CG lever shape is very accurate either in the part tightening the crown or the tip, but the gen edges are much more rounded.

CG pin is nicely finished and almost flat. Gen CG pin is not consistent and varies from completely flat to a bit rounded edges.

Therefore H maker CG, which has squared corners and edges, is very nicely finished, as above commented, even better than gen, but somehow it is inaccurate. Rep CG has accurate lever and correct CG pin but with sharper edges. There is no reason to downgrade this nice rep due to the little inaccuracies of the nice CG which indeed is even better than gen.

CASEBACK:

Rep caseback is also less soft than gen, all the edges are sharper, and even the transition edge between the conical shape and the flat central circle is much sharper than gen, which presents more rounded transition. The central flat circle is a bit smaller in gen.

Rep is even better engraved than gen with more defined and sharp contours. Engraving depth is more or less the same. Layout of inscriptions is accurate enough. Fonts are not exactly the same and the differences are more evident on FIRENZE 1860 engravings. As you can see in below pic at real size and without a close and enlarged inspection the rep caseback looks nice

 

PAM%20064%20CASEBACK%20%20COMP-xxxxx_zpswyezdgvw.jpg

PAM 064 CASEBACK - GEN–H MAKER COMPARISON

 

DIAL LAYOUT:

H maker dial layout is really good with accurate placements and sizes. Only little differences of inscriptions placement but not noticeable.

DIAL INSCRIPTIONS:

Like on PAM 087, dial white inscriptions: stick minute markers, LUMINOR SUBMERSIBLE, 1000m, PANERAI Automatic are accurate in colour and thickness. The main flaws are in “R” font, as usual in H maker, which has different font and straight end of the “R” tail whereas gen “R” tail is pointy. There are also some differences in T SWISS MADE T and in Automatic but they are few noticeable. It is a pity the inaccurate “R”, because the inscriptions, aside this matter, are really good. See comparison pics on PAM 087 review show the differences.

DIAL NUMERAL MARKERS:

H maker seemingly are using PAM 087 dial as base for the rep dial of PAM 064. This is a big mistake for below commented reasons.

“12” and “6” markers are different. Mainly “12” marker is completely different, as we can see in below comparison pic, where the rep and gen “12” markers are showed. In the middle part of the figure I have overlapped the gen 12 contour over the rep marker.

 

PAM%20064%2012%20marker%20comprison-%20xxxx_zpsai4q6y4i.jpg

PAM 064 “12” MARKER DIFFERENCES - GEN–H MAKER COMPARISON

 

The shorter straight lower stroke and a completely different upper part of the “2” in “12” marker are really evident. In my opinion this is a serious flaw in in the more visible zone of the watch.

Like on PAM 087, the gen lume application has usually a smooth surface sausage lume of the numerals, with yellowish ochre colour, circled with a much lighter contour whereas rep has the same contour no lighter but with the same colour as the sausage lume. Some times rep has rougher lume material of sausage application than gen, but this is few noticeable in real size and , besides, gen shows sometimes a rough surface.

DIAL RECTANGULAR STICK MARKERS:

Rep rectangular STICK markers are very nicely made, even with better finish and appearance than gen, but due to that have some inaccuracies.

In effect, rep dial stick markers have a perfect rim contour and are glossier. They are made with a part detached from the dial surface and black coated. Again these contours seem extracted from the PAM 087 dial. Gen stick markers contours seem embossed from the dial surface and their edges are soft and rounded. Rep contours look much crisper and defined. Rep contours are nicer but unfortunately inaccurate. Sticks lume application is clearly convex in gen with a marked dome, but rep sticks lume is flatter and without relief. See the differences in below comparison pics.

 

PAM%20064%20DIAL%20STICK%20MARKERSl%20-xxxxx_zps0pkiymnk.jpg

PAM 064 DIAL STICK MARKERS DIFFERENCES - GEN–H MAKER COMPARISON

 

LUME COLOURS AND APPLICATION:

This matter is the same as on PAM 087. There is no reason to strictly judge lume in a rep of a Tritium lume gen watch, because Tritium lume will have lost the power in an old gen watch and the colour uncharged will really have undergone very variable changes from yellowish ivory to orange or brownish depending on original lume material, environment conditions and how old is the watch.

Rep lume power is good enough to satisfy owners. Rep stick markers colour is a tad more orange than numerals which are more yellow or ochre. Rep hands lume is more or less like the numerals.

In the gen overall lume colour is less marked or lighter than rep. Gen stick markers lume is also more orange than numerals but the hands are usually lighter. But we have to bear in mind that, as above commented, the aging colour of a Tritium lume has not fixed rules and we could get any combination of colours in an old gen.

Gen hands lume is usually lighter than numeral markers, this maybe is produced because, at least in last series, PANERAI is using Luminova instead of Tritium lume for the hands, in order to avoid a premature and ugly corrosion. In this way a lighter colour of rep hands lume would be interesting to get more accuracy.

We can say that rep lume colours are accurate, matching a very aged Tritium dial, just in the limit of darkness and aging. Maybe hands should be a bit lighter, for above commented reasons, and in this way some modders are working with this reps.

DATE WINDOW AND DATE WHEEL:

Date window and date fonts are accurate. No worries about this matter at real size.

SECONDS SUBDIAL @9:

Appearance, colour and concentric circles are achúrate, but the sitck markers are thinner in gen and the dot markers are clearly smaller than gen. This is another serious flaw of this rep. See below comparison pic.

 

PAM%20064%20SUBDIAL%20COMP-%20xxxx_zpsmktldrza.jpg

PAM 064 SECONDS SUBDIAL @9 - GEN–H MAKER COMPARISON

 

CRYSTAL:

Gen has a very thick 5mm crystal. Rep crystal looks also as thick as gen and the Cyclops is accurate in size, and the samples and pics that I have seen have few “frozen halo” like gen. Magnification is also like gen. AR seems OK. Overall accurate and nice crystal.

HANDS and CANNON PINION

Hands are accurate with a bit dark lume, as above commented. The circle of fixation of the hands to the CP looks flatter and better than in PAM 087 which looks a bit concave.

CP is very good: accurate, flat and polished, with a bit rounded edges and flush. It looks really good in real thing and at real size, even under the loupe.

Both hands and CP, aside the lume colour, are at real size really good and accurate. No worries in this regard.

MOVEMENT:

Rep movement is an A7750 without chrono functions and decorated rotor with blue engravings.

Gen is a OPIII based in the same Valjoux 7750, without chrono functions and with rotor and bridges decorated with PANERAI PANERAI engravings and golden inscriptions

The rep movement is reliable, and more without the chrono functions, but the decoration is inaccurate and we can see the evident differences in below pic. Since the caseback is solid this inaccuracy is not very important and the rep movement A7750 is reliable enough.

 

PAM%20087-MOVEMENT%20COMP%20-xxxxx%20copiar_zpshi8toyzp.jpg

PAM 064 MOVEMENT - GEN–H MAKER COMPARISON

 

CONCLUSIONS AND EVALUATION:

H maker had really done a good job with the PAM 087 F-series, but maybe due to use some parts of this watch to make the PAM 064, the final result is a rep of PAM 064 overall less accurate than PAM 087.

There are the same obvious inaccuracies already found on PAM 087: overall sharper edges, finish of the bezel brushing, “R” of dial inscriptions, darker contours of numeral markers …

But we have to add very inaccurate surrounds of dial rectangular stick lumed markers, wrong “12” numeral markers, wrong stick markers and dots on subdial @9, inaccurate black stick markers on bezel, inaccurate pearl colour…

Bear in mind that it is very difficult to copy an old gen watch, with a lot of parts hand finished and with aged Tritium type lume. The rep is made by machining and hand finish is used only in the necessary points, that gives to the rep a “perfectly” machined and sharp appearance different from the smoother and hand made look of some gen parts.

Anyway the rep looks impressive and has a very strong gen-like appearance. But flaws on dial and the black markers on bezel are very evident flaws to be forgotten. Therefore we have to downgrade the evaluation.

We can consider PAM 064 H maker a very nice rep of First Class low level due to some obvious inaccuracies on dial.

Additional info here:

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=264723 by Cpairways

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=264723&p=2759924&viewfull=1#post2759924 by ryllz

https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/288423-New-PAM064-Submersible-1000m-quot-La-Bomba-quot-is-coming) by gvln

https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/296197-PAM-064c-H-factory by Therion666

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=266391 by Maximax

 

 

PAM 064

 

REPLICA links:

- PAM 064 C-series H maker w/A7750

(*)http://puretime01.com/pam064-c-1000m-luminor-submersible-hf-on-brown-leather-strap-a7750.html

(*)http://www.tswatch.club/18545-featured18545_c52a5ab60d6a88aee3c3191e1edbc36e.html

(*)http://www.torobravos.xyz/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1992

(*)http://www.intime.co/panerai/2692-pam064c-h-maker-1-1-best-edition-on-asso-leather-strap.html

(*)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=14346

(*)http://www.pf-818.com/-p-18865.html

(*)https://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/296102-pam-064-c-LA-BOMBA

 

GEN links:

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Special_93.html

http://www.network54.com/Forum/265099/thread/1228702020/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37dyezYxG4

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=msg&th=1188674&rid=0

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-pam-064-a-696403.html

http://www.jeweltrader.nl/horloges/panerai-luminor-submersible-pam-064/

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=250709

http://www.9maiali.com/m/product-panerai-pam-064-luminor-submersible-1000m-44mm-se-500-pc/

https://www.watchuwant.com/watches/panerai-pam-64-c-1000m-luminor-submersible-original-tunacan-la-bamba-special-edition-only

 

 

 

Thanks for reading

ALE

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James.

You really felt the need to quote all of that to say "thanks"?

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Slink73

The review is so good he wanted us to read it twice. The detail is fantastic the references spectacular. Ale your time and effort is very much appreciated.

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BenjaminButton
You're right

 

Hasat - as you agree - do us all a favour and edit your post and remove ALEs quoted post. It's really annoying.

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Hasat

Indeed guys It's better like this.

Excuses for the annoying message. It's fixed now

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