Sea Story of two Gens and a Rep (Rolex 1665, Rolex GMT, and Rep Tudor)

[Diver Dave 0]

So.... I started a thread in Rolex Reps about a Tudor Sub that I just received, and in that writeup I posted a photo of my Gen 1665 Rolex Sea Dweller that I have worn more or less constantly since 1979. Some of the members asked for more information and pics, and that's lead us here. And as I scratched my head about the Sea Dweller and its history, I also was contemplating my ancient Gen Rolex GMT in solid gold, and how these two watches brought me to the rep world.

 

So here we go: I've been a professional adventurer my entire life. Educated as a commercial diver, and a veteran of years of diving in the oil fields of the world, and still involved very deeply in exploration level deep shipwreck diving using rebreathers and mixed gas. That's my diving world. In a mid-life career change I took my then-hobby of flying and turned that into my profession. I've been lucky enough to work my way up to being a test pilot, flying fighters, but that was preceded by many years of flying small airplanes, airliners, corporate jets, and all sorts of vintage airplanes. I still fly,, and my expertise is in the operation of surplus military jets, especially the Soviet MiG's, which I have flown for over 1000 hours.

 

So... What will follow is a story of three watches.

 

 

My 1665 Sea Dweller was standard issue for a commercial diver in 1978. Mine was purchased nearly new, but used, in Houma Louisiana to replace my first Rolex, a vintage 1964 Submariner that I still have tucked away safely in storage. The 1665 is called the "Great White" nowadays. I worked for Santa Fe Engineering and Diving, one of the largest commercial diving companies in the world. Our main competitor was COMEX, which I am sure you have heard of. Not well known is that not only COMEX bought Sea Dwellers in industrial quantities, but they were the only one to have their name put on the dial. In any event, other than periods when I was flying across many times zones as a corporate pilot, my Sea Dweller has been on my wrist continuously since then, which to my count is some 38 years. I spent two years in Antarctica, and was fortunate enough to be able to get to the geographic South Pole, and wore the watch there. So I can say that on my own wrist this watch has been to over 1000 feet underwater, been to the South Pole, and been to Mach 2 in a MiG-21. It's been overhauled twice, has had one set of new hands put on, and has had several crystals on it in addition to the overhauls. All else is just as it was when it was new. Photos will follow.

 

 

The GMT Master is a watch I stupidly traded an original Rolex Daytona needing overhaul for (don't ask..) in about 1990 when I began flying internationally a lot. It's a solid gold one, and was built in the early 1960's. Originally jt had a brown dial and bezel, which I had replaced with black ones when I bought it. The interesting story about the watch is that I was wearing it when I had my only serious crash of my aviation career, and when I was given it back in the hospital (where I spent many months) I found it would no longer self wind. The reason? The back had been crushed over the bone of my wrist (!!) so that the rotor wouldn't turn. I ended up sending it back to Rolex with a note, and they kindly hammered the back out flat again "with their complements". You can still see the damage today.

 

Obviously these watches will never be sold, and will pass to my family one day. They are worth more to me than any other treasure.

 

Which brings me to my Rep: One day not long ago I was working on the bow of my boat on the anchor, and snagged my Sea Dweller, pulling it off of my wrist. It bounced... and went to the rail... precariously.... and I was able to prevent it falling into the water. I scratched my head a bit, realized it was stupid to wear an heirloom of that nature where inevitably it would be lost, and decided to finally retire it from heavy-duty service. I still wear it when I change spark plugs on my car, but I no longer wear it on the deck of my boat, if that makes sense. Being a bit of a watch savant I dug into my collection and began wearing my gens (Seiko, Panerai, Omega, Breitling, etc, etc), but my eye was so used to seeing the familiar face of a Rolex that none felt right. Contemplating watches I learned about Reps, read a lot, and finally decided on a Rep Sub Tudor, which I am wearing now. While my Sea Dweller was out being overhauled and afterwards, I became involved with Modding Seikos, and ended up with tools, timegrapher, water-test chamber, and more watch parts than I need. So.... <sigh>... here I am.

 

OK, enough of the story. I'll post a dozen pics to follow this. Enjoy!

[Diver Dave 0]

Just a few shots of the 1665

 

Plenty of Wabi on this bracelet.

 

Side and helium escape valve. I'm likely one of the few people to have ever needed it.

 

Back

[Diver Dave 0]

Before I bought it, the watch had been flooded by another diver. You can see a slight stain on the dial under the 12 from that.

[Diver Dave 0]

I don't even remember what I hit the crown guard guard with hard enough to put that divot into it. But the guard did it's job.

 

Back

[Diver Dave 0]

I wore out the holes for the flip-lock pin and finally had a watchmaker fabricate two small washers to hold a new pin from slipping thru the enlarged holes.

[TheTinMan 13]

Cool story. Sounds like you've lived more during your life than most will live in 3 or 4 lifetimes. I enjoyed reading that. One thought that comes to mind about that Tudor; is it waterproofed?

[Diver Dave 0]

Date Code on the bracelet.

 

On to the GMT...

 

Hard to see the dent, but it's there.

 

Side

[MetalMickey 179]

Thanks for a brilliant write up and gorgeous pictures. It is so refreshing to see watches that have been worn appropriately for the job they were designed for

[Diver Dave 0]

Clasp

 

I like black...

[Diver Dave 0]

Two Gens (My old Submariner is in storage and wasn't available for a portrait today(

[Diver Dave 0]

And what's on my wrist now. Complete with elastic French Navy MN type band.

[Diver Dave 0]

Which is unbelievably accurate... and which passed a 200 foot water test earlier today. I'll do a full 200 meter run later with my larger chamber.

 

A worthy pair. It's a pleasure!

[Diver Dave 0]

Cool story. Sounds like you've lived more during your life than most will live in 3 or 4 lifetimes. I enjoyed reading that. One thought that comes to mind about that Tudor; is it waterproofed?

 

 

Yes, the first thing I did was to toss it into my pressure pot, and at 200 feet it's solid. Generally if they are good there they are good to structural failure depth. That's deeper than 1000 feet.

[fatarms 7,758]

Awesome story, really enjoyed reading that. Welcome, your great white is beautiful!

[RUSH2112 11]

Great story. Goes to show most of the vintagized reps are way overdone. These have been through hell and back and are in a lot better looking shape than some of those "vintage" pieces.

[Diver Dave 0]

Great story. Goes to show most of the vintagized reps are way overdone. These have been through hell and back and are in a lot better looking shape than some of those "vintage" pieces.

 

 

True. Bear in mind that the crystals and bezel inserts are just consumables, and are changed out regularly. It's been thru several inserts. The pips last less than a year, generally. I actually like the aftermarket flish-pip inserts better than the originals, as they don't get lost. The inserts get scratched up long before they fade though. As for dials, the "tropical" look is way overdone. I have spent many many summers at Edwards AFB in the Mojave desert with the watch on my wrist and it's barely faded at all. The crown was just changed to a new style one as well (the old crown and tube were too corroded to pass a pressure test, so were exchanged). After two years the crystal is so scratched up that you can barely see thru it, so it's changed as a routine. In between changes I usually spend a little time with Brasso and a rag, but eventually the gouges are too deep to polish out.

 

Last overhaul was driven by the fact that the power reserve had dropped to about 12 hours. Guess what? The mainspring had broken into three pieces. Oh well. Change it out and keep wearing it.

 

I used it as a tool for my entire career, and so.... there she is.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Diver Dave

[wowsasb 8]

We need to see more of your collection!

Edited March 28, 2017 by wowsasb

[Diver Dave 0]

We need to see more of your collection!

 

 

One day I'll dig out a few....

 

Right now it's all in storage as I'm renovating my house and wanted them secured elsewhere with all of the tradesmen in the place.

[wolfwood 3]

So the Tudor rep passed the pressure test out of the box without any mods? That's amazing! How does the build quality compare to your Rolex gens?

[Diver Dave 0]

So the Tudor rep passed the pressure test out of the box without any mods? That's amazing! How does the build quality compare to your Rolex gens?

 

 

Yup. I had it outta the box, had the bracelet off, and had it into the pressure pot within five minutes of the postman dropping off the box. Left it pressurized for five minutes, depressurized it, did the water-dip, and no bubbles. That's darned good. That was at 6 ATM, so that's 60 meters.

 

Quality: Well, I use Clark Superdomes on my Sea Dweller when I re-crystal it (you can't get original Rolex Super Domes any longer), and I like this crystal better. The case looks great, although without an original handy for comparison it's hard to see how genuine it is from a contour standpoint. But at first-look it's good. Finish on the case is excellent. Dial looks great. Bezel feels and looks good. To tell you the truth, it's spooky how nice it is. Crown is definitely an anachronism, being the newest type, but heck: My 1665 has that crown retrofitted to it as well. I think if I took it and put it in a bag of rocks and beat it up a bit it would pass. I plan to wear it as my everyday watch for a while, Let's see how it looks in a year.

 

I may sound like a kid with a new toy, and it's not probably something the gang here doesn't already know, but for me this has been a real surprise. The reps I handled 20 years ago were laughable. This watch is NICE, and that's with a box-o-gens to compare it to. I'm sure an expert could tell without pulling the back off, but there are a ton of my friends who wear gens who wouldn't be able to tell it was a rep. It'll be an interesting experiment for a month or two to hand it around for examination without saying what it is.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Diver Dave

[fromo1946 0]

Just saw your nice looking Tudor, that's what I'm looking for, I was really impressed with your quality control of your piece. How could I send Mary a request for a watch? I've been a member of RWI since 2005 and really liked your Tudor.

Thanks,

fromo1946

[kromp 0]

Great story. Thanks for sharing. Just wondering, you mention one of your tertiary watches is a Pam... may I ask which model?

Regards...

[Diver Dave 0]

Great story. Thanks for sharing. Just wondering, you mention one of your tertiary watches is a Pam... may I ask which model?

Regards...

 

 

Yup. It's one of the earliest Submersibles, a PAM24, with the polished bezel.

 

I never got on with the bezel not being marked for more than the first 15 minutes, but the finish and quality overall is excellent, as you would expect. I've worn it for a few days at a time, but always put it away and put on my old beat up Sea Dweller.

 

The others I like include a Zenith Deluca, black face, which is a better watch in my view than a Daytona. I use the bezel more than the chrono. But again, it's a dresser-queen. Then there's a 1960's Omega Speedy, a 1960's AOPA Breitling, a few original WW-II German chronos, a few of the original RXW watches that Ken Sato built including one of his 1938 Radiomir clones, and heck... well..... there's a bunch-o-watches stashed away for a rainy day.

 

I still like my old 1665 best of all. I never worry about putting another scratch on it!

[Diver Dave 0]

Just saw your nice looking Tudor, that's what I'm looking for, I was really impressed with your quality control of your piece. How could I send Mary a request for a watch? I've been a member of RWI since 2005 and really liked your Tudor.

Thanks,

fromo1946

 

 

Just send her a note and ask. That's all I did. I shot her another note earlier tonight asking about a few more, as I have friends who will want them too.

[Daywatch 4]

That´s quite the story, thanks for sharing and loved to see those pics.