TheTinMan 13 Posted May 30, 2017 It's all relative. For one, it's not a Rolex. ;) And I'm not a bi kind of guy... I see it's only £2,580 for the leather strap version though. It's not bad. I tried on the Black Bay 41 at an AD over the weekend and I'm in love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del 4,437 Posted May 30, 2017 It's not bad. I tried on the Black Bay 41 at an AD over the weekend and I'm in love! Love that too. And at £2,000 on bracelet or £1,790 on leather it's good value by the looks of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diver Dave 0 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) All it needs is crown guards, and getting rid of those snowflake hands and replacement with proper mercedes hands. Which is a polite way to say "fuck off" to Rolex for abandoning their traditional roots in classic designs, and for becoming a desk-diving idiots brand that no professional tool-watch user can afford (or would want). Printing advertising on the rehaut was the last straw. Imagine: Rolex once sent FREE watches to any allied soldier imprisoned in a German POW camp "goods payable upon release from captivity". They were used in timing the guards rounds in The Great Escape. From there to now has been a real change of ethos. There is zero reason a Rolex branded watch should cost more than a Tudor today. Edited May 30, 2017 by Diver Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadPickle 2,738 Posted May 30, 2017 What the fuck are you blithering on about driver dave? Forget all that shit you think you know about watches, this has nothing to do with that, it's all about profit, if you can get this tattooed scruffy cunt to help you shift a few more watches then that's how it's gonna be, if you can stick an other digit on the end of the Rolex price tag and still get the stupidly wealthy to part with it, then that's a winner too... Crown guards indeed, them rich twats don't even know where the crown is let alone who's guarding it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
171796 2 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) All it needs is crown guards, and getting rid of those snowflake hands and replacement with proper mercedes hands. Which is a polite way to say "fuck off" to Rolex for abandoning their traditional roots in classic designs, and for becoming a desk-diving idiots brand that no professional tool-watch user can afford (or would want). Printing advertising on the rehaut was the last straw. Imagine: Rolex once sent FREE watches to any allied soldier imprisoned in a German POW camp "goods payable upon release from captivity". They were used in timing the guards rounds in The Great Escape. From there to now has been a real change of ethos. There is zero reason a Rolex branded watch should cost more than a Tudor today. I actually like the rehaut, making it a more detailed piece of watchmaking. The ceramic models also look better. do you really prefer aluminium bezels and plexi glass? (I have to admit that I also find some models unaesthetic, like Milgauss, GMT, Explorer ll and Airking) Back when Rolex etc. were cheap nobody bought them. Because they're impractical to non-horologists. Tool watches are now (actually since the 80s with the Quartz crisis) Casio, G-Shock, Garmin, Eco-drive etc. No need to wind up, easily readable and lighter. Rolex and the other brands knew that their only possibility to survive was to raise the price to become luxury goods. Then, even when they're impractical, they would sell. To brag. To show off. Because they're expensive. Would you wear an Invicta or Orient? No. Why? Because they're cheap. Luckily we horologists have affordable reps. So no need to worry about it :) Edited May 30, 2017 by 171796 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piccolo 672 Posted May 30, 2017 Which is a polite way to say "fuck off" to Rolex for abandoning their traditional roots in classic designs, and for becoming a desk-diving idiots brand that no professional tool-watch user can afford (or would want). Printing advertising on the rehaut was the last straw. Does that put all modern Rolex owners in the "desk diving idiot" category? I've got a few, thanks... Bit of a broad statement maybe? What then separates vintage Rolex owners from modern ones? Apart from money and the ability to attend auctions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diver Dave 0 Posted May 30, 2017 I actually like the rehaut, making it a more detailed piece of watchmaking. The ceramic models also look better. do you really prefer aluminium bezels and plexi glass? To me the rehaut is just advertising, I mean: If it says "Rolex" once on the dial, why put it fifteen times on the dial? I do prefer plexi crystals: A can of Brasso and a rag and a few minutes a month and my crystals look new... and as for ceramic bezel inserts >yawn<... The Tudors now look like what Rolex's should look like. Very nice watches at the same price point (adjusted for inflation) that Rolex traditionally sold for. Expensive yet within reach for anyone who would stretch a bit. I disagree that Rolex's of yore sold poorly. In the AD's in the 1970's (when I was a retail buyer for them) they were perpetually backordered. A Submariner took several weeks to get. I actually ordered a new Daytona in 1978... I'm still waiting for it to be delivered ;-) (the promise was 24 months after receipt of deposit). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diver Dave 0 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Does that put all modern Rolex owners in the "desk diving idiot" category? I've got a few, thanks... Bit of a broad statement maybe? What then separates vintage Rolex owners from modern ones? Apart from money and the ability to attend auctions. The fact that working men like me bought them new back then for someplace between $400 and $800 when we made between $400 and $800 a week? Thousands upon thousands of guys in the military bought them at the exchange for 2 weeks pay. Today? Good luck, Mr Army Warrant Officer Helicopter Pilot. No Rolex for you. One to two weeks pay for a working pilot or professional diver what what a Sub or a GMT cost when they were new during the period we now see at the heyday of Rolex. If you were cheap you bought a Seiko. If you were mid-level you bought a Zodiac or an Ollech & Wajs. If you wanted the good watch you got the Rolex. hat was just how things were for decades for the average guy. One weeks pay is what a "good" watch should cost you today. A nice watch should cost 2 weeks pay. A luxury one a months pay. Those are traditional prices as seen for a period of some 100 years if you study watches and prices adjusted for inflation. A Tudor Submariner the year I wanted to buy one first (when I was 14 years old) was $190, and I was making $50/week cooking chicken at KFC. The math works. That would have been a months pay. Try buying a Tudor today at age 14 with a fast food job's months pay. The watches aren't any better today, just grossly overpriced. Paying for a new one is a self imposed tax on paying far too much for what they are. Edited May 30, 2017 by Diver Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GenTLe 1,496 Posted May 30, 2017 back then for someplace between $400 and $800 when we made between $400 and $800 a week Lol, that amount (800$/week, clean from taxes), in Italy, is considered a "manager grade" salary. TODAY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelittleprince 2 Posted May 30, 2017 So anyway, David Beckham still plays football? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piccolo 672 Posted May 30, 2017 Does that put all modern Rolex owners in the "desk diving idiot" category? I've got a few, thanks... Bit of a broad statement maybe? What then separates vintage Rolex owners from modern ones? Apart from money and the ability to attend auctions. Try buying a Tudor today at age 14 with a fast food job's months pay. - I know a fair few teenagers selling "food" fast that clear more than a Tudor in a day... The watches aren't any better today, just grossly overpriced. Paying for a new one is a self imposed tax on paying far too much for what they are. - Ah well, I guess I paid that tax Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelittleprince 2 Posted May 30, 2017 I agree and disagree with you Dave Rolex rehauts are very *Advertising Driven* Only rolex ceramic fan boys find it... for some reason amazing to have the fukin word rolex repeated a million times, we get it.... I disagree with all Tudors being reasonably priced, Eta blackbays reasonable? Helll nayyyyy ^^^ Why they retain value? Because of the stupid rose that was in "Vintage Tudors" Lets see how long that lasts....... Probably will last a long time because we are crazy watch enthusiast who care about stupid things like that Btw, i used to own a gen Blackbay Eta Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheTradingTeam 0 Posted May 30, 2017 As if I didn't already love Tudor enough.. Now my childhood footballing hero has decided to sponsor them :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diver Dave 0 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) I agree and disagree with you Dave Rolex rehauts are very *Advertising Driven* Only rolex ceramic fan boys find it... for some reason amazing to have the fukin word rolex repeated a million times, we get it.... I disagree with all Tudors being reasonably priced, Eta blackbays reasonable? Helll nayyyyy ^^^ Why they retain value? Because of the stupid rose that was in "Vintage Tudors" Lets see how long that lasts....... Probably will last a long time because we are crazy watch enthusiast who care about stupid things like that Btw, i used to own a gen Blackbay Eta Yeah... it's funny, The rehaut is just gauche in my eyes. It's a variant of sticking on a diamond bezel: Tasteless. Less is more. Noting that some of the most expensive Panerai Radiomir watches don't have *any* branding on the dial. If you know what it is, and buy it for yourself, you don't need to advertise it. Perhaps they issue a magnifying glass with them to inspect the rehaut and the small penis that accompanies the wearer.... (old fighter pilots saying: "Big watch, small dick")... I'll hide now... The Black Bay really ought to be a $1200 watch. The fact that you can "barely" tell a Gen from a good rep (at $300) ought to say something about it's price to produce, and it's inherent worth. It's a $300 watch to produce. I do have to say I like them a *lot* more than the current line of Rolex "sports" watches... still, I'll not "invest" in one. Edited May 30, 2017 by Diver Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelittleprince 2 Posted May 30, 2017 I agree and disagree with you Dave Rolex rehauts are very *Advertising Driven* Only rolex ceramic fan boys find it... for some reason amazing to have the fukin word rolex repeated a million times, we get it.... I disagree with all Tudors being reasonably priced, Eta blackbays reasonable? Helll nayyyyy ^^^ Why they retain value? Because of the stupid rose that was in "Vintage Tudors" Lets see how long that lasts....... Probably will last a long time because we are crazy watch enthusiast who care about stupid things like that Btw, i used to own a gen Blackbay Eta Yeah... it's funny, The rehaut is just gauche in my eyes. It's a variant of sticking on a diamond bezel: Tasteless. Less is more. Noting that some of the most expensive Panerai Radiomir watches don't have *any* branding on the dial. If you know what it is, and buy it for yourself, you don't need to advertise it. Perhaps they issue a magnifying glass with them to inspect the rehaut and the small penis that accompanies the wearer.... (old fighter pilots saying: "Big watch, small dick")... I'll hide now... The Black Bay really ought to be a $1200 watch. The fact that you can "barely" tell a Gen from a good rep (at $300) ought to say something about it's price to produce, and it's inherent worth. It's a $300 watch to produce. I do have to say I like them a *lot* more than the current line of Rolex "sports" watches... still, I'll not "invest" in one. Its best not to look at production costs.... Personal taste, i do like the pre ceramic submariners because i am a watch enthusiast and the pre retains that tooly aestetic look. However from a business and marketing point of view, Rolex is now a Luxury brand and is after those who want it for Luxury purposes like *Kevin Hart* for example so we gotta respect that, and they are damn good at making watches that appeal to that crowd. To make a boring plain submariner become a luxury status symbol is awesome. Also Hulk and BLNR are pretty sweet! I feel like if they put something different on the Rehaut rather than rolexrolexrolex it would be more tolerable. Like if they wrote something inspirational to the Submariner such as "Still better than Noobs V7" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUSH2112 11 Posted May 30, 2017 I agree and disagree with you Dave Rolex rehauts are very *Advertising Driven* Only rolex ceramic fan boys find it... for some reason amazing to have the fukin word rolex repeated a million times, we get it.... I disagree with all Tudors being reasonably priced, Eta blackbays reasonable? Helll nayyyyy ^^^ Why they retain value? Because of the stupid rose that was in "Vintage Tudors" Lets see how long that lasts....... Probably will last a long time because we are crazy watch enthusiast who care about stupid things like that Btw, i used to own a gen Blackbay Eta Yeah... it's funny, The rehaut is just gauche in my eyes. It's a variant of sticking on a diamond bezel: Tasteless. Less is more. Noting that some of the most expensive Panerai Radiomir watches don't have *any* branding on the dial. If you know what it is, and buy it for yourself, you don't need to advertise it. Perhaps they issue a magnifying glass with them to inspect the rehaut and the small penis that accompanies the wearer.... (old fighter pilots saying: "Big watch, small dick")... I'll hide now... The Black Bay really ought to be a $1200 watch. The fact that you can "barely" tell a Gen from a good rep (at $300) ought to say something about it's price to produce, and it's inherent worth. It's a $300 watch to produce. I do have to say I like them a *lot* more than the current line of Rolex "sports" watches... still, I'll not "invest" in one. Its best not to look at production costs.... Personal taste, i do like the pre ceramic submariners because i am a watch enthusiast and the pre retains that tooly aestetic look. However from a business and marketing point of view, Rolex is now a Luxury brand and is after those who want it for Luxury purposes like *Kevin Hart* for example so we gotta respect that, and they are damn good at making watches that appeal to that crowd. To make a boring plain submariner become a luxury status symbol is awesome. Also Hulk and BLNR are pretty sweet! I feel like if they put something different on the Rehaut rather than rolexrolexrolex it would be more tolerable. Like if they wrote something inspirational to the Submariner such as "Still better than Noobs V7" I'm curious why you think it's "best not to look at production costs?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelittleprince 2 Posted May 31, 2017 I agree and disagree with you Dave Rolex rehauts are very *Advertising Driven* Only rolex ceramic fan boys find it... for some reason amazing to have the fukin word rolex repeated a million times, we get it.... I disagree with all Tudors being reasonably priced, Eta blackbays reasonable? Helll nayyyyy ^^^ Why they retain value? Because of the stupid rose that was in &quot;Vintage Tudors&quot; Lets see how long that lasts....... Probably will last a long time because we are crazy watch enthusiast who care about stupid things like that Btw, i used to own a gen Blackbay Eta Yeah... it's funny, The rehaut is just gauche in my eyes. It's a variant of sticking on a diamond bezel: Tasteless. Less is more. Noting that some of the most expensive Panerai Radiomir watches don't have *any* branding on the dial. If you know what it is, and buy it for yourself, you don't need to advertise it. Perhaps they issue a magnifying glass with them to inspect the rehaut and the small penis that accompanies the wearer.... (old fighter pilots saying: &quot;Big watch, small dick&quot;)... I'll hide now... The Black Bay really ought to be a $1200 watch. The fact that you can &quot;barely&quot; tell a Gen from a good rep (at $300) ought to say something about it's price to produce, and it's inherent worth. It's a $300 watch to produce. I do have to say I like them a *lot* more than the current line of Rolex &quot;sports&quot; watches... still, I'll not &quot;invest&quot; in one. Its best not to look at production costs.... Personal taste, i do like the pre ceramic submariners because i am a watch enthusiast and the pre retains that tooly aestetic look. However from a business and marketing point of view, Rolex is now a Luxury brand and is after those who want it for Luxury purposes like *Kevin Hart* for example so we gotta respect that, and they are damn good at making watches that appeal to that crowd. To make a boring plain submariner become a luxury status symbol is awesome. Also Hulk and BLNR are pretty sweet! I feel like if they put something different on the Rehaut rather than rolexrolexrolex it would be more tolerable. Like if they wrote something inspirational to the Submariner such as "Still better than Noobs V7" I'm curious why you think it's "best not to look at production costs?" Because everything is priced wayyyyy over what they are worth, so its best not to look how much it cost to make vs what you are paying for *Assuming you are the consumer of the product* His comment was the blackbay probably cost 300$ or less to make *In no way am i saying thats accurate* but lets say its a ballpark, 300$ and i payed over 2K.... Yea feels bad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheTinMan 13 Posted May 31, 2017 So anyway, David Beckham still plays football? HAHAHA, this thread went sideways in a hurry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheTinMan 13 Posted May 31, 2017 It's not bad. I tried on the Black Bay 41 at an AD over the weekend and I'm in love! Love that too. And at £2,000 on bracelet or £1,790 on leather it's good value by the looks of it. I have a very strong feeling that the price of Tudors will slowly start rising in the near future. I don't know why, it's just my intuition talking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diver Dave 0 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) His comment was the blackbay probably cost 300$ or less to make *In no way am i saying thats accurate* but lets say its a ballpark, 300$ and i payed over 2K.... Yea feels bad Let's just say this: Let's assume that the best $300 retail rep of it costs half that to make ($150) and the gen costs you $2000 outta the door.... there's not anyplace near close a $1850 difference in the cost to produce the Gen, considering that it takes an expert to tell the rep from the Gen. I'd buy double the production cost, but not 10X, no matter who's making it. I havbe no clue what the markup is from wholesale to retail for the AD, but I'm betting it's not as much as you think. Certainly not 50%. The difference in price between producing a Gen Submariner and a gen Black Bay is lost in the noise. The difference at the retail price level is staggering.... Rolex SA is making Tudors to extract cash from one level of economics while really *fucking* those at the next economic level higher. And good for them. The new Subs et-al are so garishly silly that people buying them deserve the screwin' they are gettin'. Edited May 31, 2017 by Diver Dave Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theduke.williams 1,025 Posted May 31, 2017 His comment was the blackbay probably cost 300$ or less to make *In no way am i saying thats accurate* but lets say its a ballpark, 300$ and i payed over 2K.... Yea feels bad Let's just say this: Let's assume that the best $300 retail rep of it costs half that to make ($150) and the gen costs you $2000 outta the door.... there's not anyplace near close a $1850 difference in the cost to produce the Gen, considering that it takes an expert to tell the rep from the Gen. I'd buy double the production cost, but not 10X, no matter who's making it. I havbe no clue what the markup is from wholesale to retail for the AD, but I'm betting it's not as much as you think. Certainly not 50%. The difference in price between producing a Gen Submariner and a gen Black Bay is lost in the noise. The difference at the retail price level is staggering.... Rolex SA is making Tudors to extract cash from one level of economics while really *fucking* those at the next economic level higher. And good for them. The new Subs et-al are so garishly silly that people buying them deserve the screwin' they are gettin'. Yawn... Yawn... Yawn... Surely the point is exclusivity! Doesn't matter what it costs to make a particular watch, or how great the movement is ( any COSC movement will have something going for it!). The whole point about luxury watches (and the reps that mimick them), is that they are exclusive for a reason - they're bloody expensive! My Casio wave ceptor is much more accurate than a five figure AP, but it's still a cheap watch. Accept that there's a gravy boat, and most of us are in the baggage compartment. Nice to fantasise about being part of the super rich elite when we're wearing our super rep, but it'll always be an illusion - dream on! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del 4,437 Posted May 31, 2017 Sheesh. Can't we just like a watch these days without analysing it to death?! (Rolex advertising on the rehaut? Fuck me, who can see that font?! ) We all know that luxury goods (and especially watches) have massive mark-ups so there is no news here. If you like a watch and can afford it then why not just buy the fucker and enjoy it?! :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
porschespeedster 19 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) The Tudors now look like what Rolex's should look like. Very nice watches at the same price point (adjusted for inflation) that Rolex traditionally sold for. Expensive yet within reach for anyone who would stretch a bit. ^ THIS. Edited May 31, 2017 by porschespeedster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GC 4,461 Posted May 31, 2017 Is it constipation?... or is that the look you get when Rolex approaches you about being the face for one of their marketing campaigns and you later find out it's Tudor instead? The look of thinking "damn that fine print"! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diver Dave 0 Posted May 31, 2017 Is it constipation?... or is that the look you get when Rolex approaches you about being the face for one of their marketing campaigns and you later find out it's Tudor instead? The look of thinking "damn that fine print"! Or "Fuck Me, you're not gonna give me a free Rolex?" And who is David Beckham and why do I give a shit what he thinks about watches? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
