I have some questions

[RepGuy 108]

Do you wear a famous sports brand, any will do Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, Le Coq Sportif..) - all use factories in Asia with appalling child labour records.

Do you use a Samsung, Apple device, Withings - all use factories in Asia with appalling labour records

Do you drive a car maybe a BMW, Merc or Renault - all use oil/petroleum that fucks up the environment - maybe you buy it from Totale?

Do you own a designer handbag, maybe YSL, Dior, Chanel - that rape you for 10's of 000's of euros - cut the leather in africa/china put it together in Italy and call it French...

Do you ever eat fast food chicken, maybe you like a coq au vin - something like 50% of Europe's chicken comes from Thailand - do you question if it's well cared for or battery farmed?

 

 

So maybe you live in a shit clad tepee, wear a hessian toga and eat grass or maybe you should prioritise the welfare of western 'established' businesses before questioning the morality of fake watches from China?

 

And if you don't think legitimate businesses don't end up funneling cash into illegal practices you are even more naive.

Are you implying I may be naive, or should I not ask questions or choose my battles Because I am gulty? Thank you for the long elaborate and long response, but I really don't get the message behind it.

 

I believe that his message is that every major company uses some form of immoral practice to create its products. I understand your original questions, and at this point, members have pointed out that they believe child labor may be employed in the production of reps. So based on your initial posting on this topic, it would appear that they would not appeal to you because of this. The bottom line is that these watches are illegal, which makes the purchase of them technically immoral regardless of how they are made. Almost all members here, including myself, have no problem with this and appreciate the reps for what they are, but in your case I would suggest looking into lower priced gens to avoid this moral dilemma you appear to be having.

[The touche française 0]

Do you wear a famous sports brand, any will do Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, Le Coq Sportif..) - all use factories in Asia with appalling child labour records.

Do you use a Samsung, Apple device, Withings - all use factories in Asia with appalling labour records

Do you drive a car maybe a BMW, Merc or Renault - all use oil/petroleum that fucks up the environment - maybe you buy it from Totale?

Do you own a designer handbag, maybe YSL, Dior, Chanel - that rape you for 10's of 000's of euros - cut the leather in africa/china put it together in Italy and call it French...

Do you ever eat fast food chicken, maybe you like a coq au vin - something like 50% of Europe's chicken comes from Thailand - do you question if it's well cared for or battery farmed?

 

 

So maybe you live in a shit clad tepee, wear a hessian toga and eat grass or maybe you should prioritise the welfare of western 'established' businesses before questioning the morality of fake watches from China?

 

And if you don't think legitimate businesses don't end up funneling cash into illegal practices you are even more naive.

Are you implying I may be naive, or should I not ask questions or choose my battles Because I am gulty? Thank you for the long elaborate and long response, but I really don't get the message behind it.

 

I believe that his message is that every major company uses some form of immoral practice to create its products. I understand your original questions, and at this point, members have pointed out that they believe child labor may be employed in the production of reps. So based on your initial posting on this topic, it would appear that they would not appeal to you because of this. The bottom line is that these watches are illegal, which makes the purchase of them technically immoral regardless of how they are made. Almost all members here, including myself, have no problem with this and appreciate the reps for what they are, but in your case I would suggest looking into lower priced gens to avoid this moral dilemma you appear to be having.

I get it, but again, is this a bad thing asking these questions? Maybe I am just like you at the end and I will buy a dozen of reps. I don't pretend to have a better moral than anybody here, and I am not perfect, I just try do my part sometimes and sometimes I want to go against my moral, and I think it's not a bad thing if I feel bad about it (when I feel bad about it).

At the end, I wanted just to know more and to judge people here or to be judged. :)

[The touche française 0]

Edit: not to judge or to be judged.

[RUSH2112 11]

Do you wear a famous sports brand, any will do Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, Le Coq Sportif..) - all use factories in Asia with appalling child labour records.

Do you use a Samsung, Apple device, Withings - all use factories in Asia with appalling labour records

Do you drive a car maybe a BMW, Merc or Renault - all use oil/petroleum that fucks up the environment - maybe you buy it from Totale?

Do you own a designer handbag, maybe YSL, Dior, Chanel - that rape you for 10's of 000's of euros - cut the leather in africa/china put it together in Italy and call it French...

Do you ever eat fast food chicken, maybe you like a coq au vin - something like 50% of Europe's chicken comes from Thailand - do you question if it's well cared for or battery farmed?

 

 

So maybe you live in a shit clad tepee, wear a hessian toga and eat grass or maybe you should prioritise the welfare of western 'established' businesses before questioning the morality of fake watches from China?

 

And if you don't think legitimate businesses don't end up funneling cash into illegal practices you are even more naive.

Are you implying I may be naive, or should I not ask questions or choose my battles Because I am gulty? Thank you for the long elaborate and long response, but I really don't get the message behind it.

 

I believe that his message is that every major company uses some form of immoral practice to create its products. I understand your original questions, and at this point, members have pointed out that they believe child labor may be employed in the production of reps. So based on your initial posting on this topic, it would appear that they would not appeal to you because of this. The bottom line is that these watches are illegal, which makes the purchase of them technically immoral regardless of how they are made. Almost all members here, including myself, have no problem with this and appreciate the reps for what they are, but in your case I would suggest looking into lower priced gens to avoid this moral dilemma you appear to be having.

I don't like equating legality with morality. In that scenario Oskar Schindler was immoral because he broke German law in helping Jews escape. I doubt anyone would agree with that. Martin Luther King Jr. Was immoral because he broke laws in fighting for civil rights as well. Gandhi broke the law in resisting British control of India. Were those actions immoral? No one here is saving the world but I think injury due to reps is way overblown by the gen manufacturers to use guilt as a means to stamp out counterfeits.

[Slink73 6]

Do you wear a famous sports brand, any will do Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, Le Coq Sportif..) - all use factories in Asia with appalling child labour records.

Do you use a Samsung, Apple device, Withings - all use factories in Asia with appalling labour records

Do you drive a car maybe a BMW, Merc or Renault - all use oil/petroleum that fucks up the environment - maybe you buy it from Totale?

Do you own a designer handbag, maybe YSL, Dior, Chanel - that rape you for 10's of 000's of euros - cut the leather in africa/china put it together in Italy and call it French...

Do you ever eat fast food chicken, maybe you like a coq au vin - something like 50% of Europe's chicken comes from Thailand - do you question if it's well cared for or battery farmed?

 

 

So maybe you live in a shit clad tepee, wear a hessian toga and eat grass or maybe you should prioritise the welfare of western 'established' businesses before questioning the morality of fake watches from China?

 

And if you don't think legitimate businesses don't end up funneling cash into illegal practices you are even more naive.

Are you implying I may be naive, or should I not ask questions or choose my battles Because I am gulty? Thank you for the long elaborate and long response, but I really don't get the message behind it.

 

I believe that his message is that every major company uses some form of immoral practice to create its products. I understand your original questions, and at this point, members have pointed out that they believe child labor may be employed in the production of reps. So based on your initial posting on this topic, it would appear that they would not appeal to you because of this. The bottom line is that these watches are illegal, which makes the purchase of them technically immoral regardless of how they are made. Almost all members here, including myself, have no problem with this and appreciate the reps for what they are, but in your case I would suggest looking into lower priced gens to avoid this moral dilemma you appear to be having.

I don't like equating legality with morality. In that scenario Oskar Schindler was immoral because he broke German law in helping Jews escape. I doubt anyone would agree with that. Martin Luther King Jr. Was immoral because he broke laws in fighting for civil rights as well. Gandhi broke the law in resisting British control of India. Were those actions immoral? No one here is saving the world but I think injury due to reps is way overblown by the gen manufacturers to use guilt as a means to stamp out counterfeits.

 

 

I find the OPs stance pretty offensive TBH.

 

Oh I am not equating legality with morality. My issue is the pseudo self righteousness - insinuating that we have all made our peace with Chinese factories horsewhipping 4 year olds into Hulk making slavery. "oh you buy reps, how do you get past the child labour...?" Say out loud in some effeminate Champagne Socialist accent for full effect. I'd like to see the OP stand in any major department store and ask for each brand to explain their child/adult labour policies before committing to buying anything. Maybe he wants to know that the out of season Mangetout, which was picked by farm labourers in Peru, is picked by highly paid hands who can actually afford to buy their own produce.

 

As GenTLe posted; the kit needed to make this stuff is becoming more and more high end. You wouldn't want a 7 year old fucking up a batch of high end reps. I live and work in China and this image of yellow peril barbarism should be consigned to the blinkered Victorian history it rose from. These are industrious factories working to some pretty crazy standards. They can't afford to attract more attention to themselves by frog marching in the local primary school.

 

Nike turned a blind eye to child labour for years because it had outsourced its morals to the factory owners who had a cost price to meet. Anything was acceptable for profit. Any gadget user should know the exceptionally rare precious metals that are essential for your latest iWhatever are pulled out of the earth by hand by African kids knee deep in dangerous chemicals.

 

My point is fake morality is fake morality. Don't look down on one practice - when those sequins on your Nike top are hand-sown by street urchins in Bangladesh.

 

As for child labour itself - whole different topic - and probably one for when everyone's had a beer.

[mike_morgan 0]

Asking the morality questions in advance of the purchase in an attempt to cast a patina of virtue on the transaction still results in the purchase of a counterfeit product.

 

I'm not touching the morality side, that's between the purchaser and his own conscience, however, doing the advance research as a soul cleansing exercise is quite possibly the highest order of lying to oneself that I can imagine.

 

These are counterfeit products, the degree to which they injure the owners of the intellectual property is debatable. We will never know how much money is lost by these goods being present in the market. Some will argue that these products DRIVE consumers to the real thing, others will say that it's killing the Swiss watch industry, as if they need any help killing it. But on some level, it probably has 'some' effect to their bottom line, if for no other reason than the countless millions they spend trying to keep the products off the market. But if the OP is concerned about doing harm to the industry, I feel we can safely stipulate that it does 'some' harm, but how much, we will never know.

 

We all know these are made in China, and despite the pictures of the shiny CNC machines and all the lab-coated hair-netted professionals in the pictures, we should be fully aware that some of these reps are quite possibly made in considerably less sterile environments than the ones depicted. The stereotype of dimly lit work rooms filled to the brim with SARS infected "children" comes to mind (we still call teenagers children, right?), well... these stereotypical scenarios come from reality, and while not EVERY rep "factory" (Assembly room) is a horrible place to work, you can bet your bottom dollar some of them are.

 

So if this is of ANY concern, don't buy Asian made goods... and I do mean ANY... because the working conditions CAN range from horrible to stellar in every industry where Asian made goods exist.

 

And you'll never know which one of these manufacturers from whom you will be purchasing are one of the good ones, or one of the bad ones, and every single TD deals with all of them. If you ask them these questions, you'll be given an answer which makes you smile, feels satisfying and eases your mind... and it's probably not true.

[Thommo82 1,397]

This is the best thread since I joined RWG 7 months ago

Thanks OP

[GenTLe 1,501]

Com'on guys, the OP is simply asking something.

I didn't read anywhere an accusation for the other members of the forum, so stop loading a simple question of undeclared meanings that seems dictated by "guilty conscience".

[splke 4,383]

Do you wear a famous sports brand, any will do Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, Le Coq Sportif..) - all use factories in Asia with appalling child labour records.

Do you use a Samsung, Apple device, Withings - all use factories in Asia with appalling labour records

Do you drive a car maybe a BMW, Merc or Renault - all use oil/petroleum that fucks up the environment - maybe you buy it from Totale?

Do you own a designer handbag, maybe YSL, Dior, Chanel - that rape you for 10's of 000's of euros - cut the leather in africa/china put it together in Italy and call it French...

Do you ever eat fast food chicken, maybe you like a coq au vin - something like 50% of Europe's chicken comes from Thailand - do you question if it's well cared for or battery farmed?

 

 

So maybe you live in a shit clad tepee, wear a hessian toga and eat grass or maybe you should prioritise the welfare of western 'established' businesses before questioning the morality of fake watches from China?

 

 

 

And if you don't think legitimate businesses don't end up funneling cash into illegal practices you are even more naive.

 

Sir, if you run for president, I shall vote for you

fuck me if mickey mouse ran for president at the moment he would win so that's not really a compliment, I get what you were saying though

[Thommo82 1,397]

 

Sir, if you run for president, I shall vote for you

fuck me if mickey mouse ran for president at the moment he would win so that's not really a compliment, I get what you were saying though

 

I'm an Aussie, so when I say president, what I really mean is supreme overlord of the universe

Also, Mickey Mouse isn't really that bad a candidate

I mean, my kid fucking loves him, and that goes a long way in my book

[Mr_B 2,401]

What have I just read... your buyin illicit goods. I don't think you should be worried about ethical production.

 

Just for fun, what about the conditions of the child coca farmers which the Rich fuckers that buy the super gens are exploiting to shove coke up their noses?

 

I mean let's be honest there's more things to have a conscience about that a few young kids putting watches together

[narikaa 129]

 

Maybe a TD can answer my second question.

 

 

OK

 

Just this once..

 

 

It's quite a guarded issue

 

but

 

yes children are used

 

however, only about 0.008 of a child goes into each watch so the Chinese think it hardly worth the mention

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

[Thommo82 1,397]

 

Maybe a TD can answer my second question.

 

 

OK

 

Just this once..

 

 

It's quite a guarded issue

 

but

 

yes children are used

 

however, only about 0.008 of a child goes into each watch so the Chinese think it hardly worth the mention

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

 

One of these days I'm going to order a watch from you just because you make me laugh

[RUSH2112 11]

Com'on guys, the OP is simply asking something.

I didn't read anywhere an accusation for the other members of the forum, so stop loading a simple question of undeclared meanings that seems dictated by "guilty conscience".

This isn't the flame free zone and I haven't seen anything abusive anyways. He's entitled to post his thread, we're entitled to plot our opinions and replies.

[The touche française 0]

Asking the morality questions in advance of the purchase in an attempt to cast a patina of virtue on the transaction still results in the purchase of a counterfeit product.

 

I'm not touching the morality side, that's between the purchaser and his own conscience, however, doing the advance research as a soul cleansing exercise is quite possibly the highest order of lying to oneself that I can imagine.

 

These are counterfeit products, the degree to which they injure the owners of the intellectual property is debatable. We will never know how much money is lost by these goods being present in the market. Some will argue that these products DRIVE consumers to the real thing, others will say that it's killing the Swiss watch industry, as if they need any help killing it. But on some level, it probably has 'some' effect to their bottom line, if for no other reason than the countless millions they spend trying to keep the products off the market. But if the OP is concerned about doing harm to the industry, I feel we can safely stipulate that it does 'some' harm, but how much, we will never know.

 

We all know these are made in China, and despite the pictures of the shiny CNC machines and all the lab-coated hair-netted professionals in the pictures, we should be fully aware that some of these reps are quite possibly made in considerably less sterile environments than the ones depicted. The stereotype of dimly lit work rooms filled to the brim with SARS infected "children" comes to mind (we still call teenagers children, right?), well... these stereotypical scenarios come from reality, and while not EVERY rep "factory" (Assembly room) is a horrible place to work, you can bet your bottom dollar some of them are.

 

So if this is of ANY concern, don't buy Asian made goods... and I do mean ANY... because the working conditions CAN range from horrible to stellar in every industry where Asian made goods exist.

 

And you'll never know which one of these manufacturers from whom you will be purchasing are one of the good ones, or one of the bad ones, and every single TD deals with all of them. If you ask them these questions, you'll be given an answer which makes you smile, feels satisfying and eases your mind... and it's probably not true.

Wow that's a great answer snd text. Thanks for the effort! :)

[The touche française 0]

Do you wear a famous sports brand, any will do Nike, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, Le Coq Sportif..) - all use factories in Asia with appalling child labour records.

Do you use a Samsung, Apple device, Withings - all use factories in Asia with appalling labour records

Do you drive a car maybe a BMW, Merc or Renault - all use oil/petroleum that fucks up the environment - maybe you buy it from Totale?

Do you own a designer handbag, maybe YSL, Dior, Chanel - that rape you for 10's of 000's of euros - cut the leather in africa/china put it together in Italy and call it French...

Do you ever eat fast food chicken, maybe you like a coq au vin - something like 50% of Europe's chicken comes from Thailand - do you question if it's well cared for or battery farmed?

 

 

So maybe you live in a shit clad tepee, wear a hessian toga and eat grass or maybe you should prioritise the welfare of western 'established' businesses before questioning the morality of fake watches from China?

 

And if you don't think legitimate businesses don't end up funneling cash into illegal practices you are even more naive.

Are you implying I may be naive, or should I not ask questions or choose my battles Because I am gulty? Thank you for the long elaborate and long response, but I really don't get the message behind it.

 

I believe that his message is that every major company uses some form of immoral practice to create its products. I understand your original questions, and at this point, members have pointed out that they believe child labor may be employed in the production of reps. So based on your initial posting on this topic, it would appear that they would not appeal to you because of this. The bottom line is that these watches are illegal, which makes the purchase of them technically immoral regardless of how they are made. Almost all members here, including myself, have no problem with this and appreciate the reps for what they are, but in your case I would suggest looking into lower priced gens to avoid this moral dilemma you appear to be having.

I don't like equating legality with morality. In that scenario Oskar Schindler was immoral because he broke German law in helping Jews escape. I doubt anyone would agree with that. Martin Luther King Jr. Was immoral because he broke laws in fighting for civil rights as well. Gandhi broke the law in resisting British control of India. Were those actions immoral? No one here is saving the world but I think injury due to reps is way overblown by the gen manufacturers to use guilt as a means to stamp out counterfeits.

 

 

I find the OPs stance pretty offensive TBH.

 

Oh I am not equating legality with morality. My issue is the pseudo self righteousness - insinuating that we have all made our peace with Chinese factories horsewhipping 4 year olds into Hulk making slavery. "oh you buy reps, how do you get past the child labour...?" Say out loud in some effeminate Champagne Socialist accent for full effect. I'd like to see the OP stand in any major department store and ask for each brand to explain their child/adult labour policies before committing to buying anything. Maybe he wants to know that the out of season Mangetout, which was picked by farm labourers in Peru, is picked by highly paid hands who can actually afford to buy their own produce.

 

As GenTLe posted; the kit needed to make this stuff is becoming more and more high end. You wouldn't want a 7 year old fucking up a batch of high end reps. I live and work in China and this image of yellow peril barbarism should be consigned to the blinkered Victorian history it rose from. These are industrious factories working to some pretty crazy standards. They can't afford to attract more attention to themselves by frog marching in the local primary school.

 

Nike turned a blind eye to child labour for years because it had outsourced its morals to the factory owners who had a cost price to meet. Anything was acceptable for profit. Any gadget user should know the exceptionally rare precious metals that are essential for your latest iWhatever are pulled out of the earth by hand by African kids knee deep in dangerous chemicals.

 

My point is fake morality is fake morality. Don't look down on one practice - when those sequins on your Nike top are hand-sown by street urchins in Bangladesh.

 

As for child labour itself - whole different topic - and probably one for when everyone's had a beer.

 

You basically reaper what you have said in the previous message (which I already comment on) without adding any substance, except accusing me of "fake morality". Well, I don't care what you think of me, and by that logic, I can show you why ever moral is fake moral. I just prefere to not be cynique.

[Stewart 0]

Resent photo from inside replica factory...

 

[Mr_B 2,401]

If the factory is full of kids where do the pubes come from??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[narikaa 129]

Priests

[Mr_B 2,401]

Priests