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taifighter

Chronometer in QC shows lower beat rate than what I paid for

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UPDATE: I should have listened to you guys. The watch came today and it doesn't even remotely resemble the QC pics. The back is completely different, with different engraving, numbers, and sticker placements.  What's worse is that there are also cracks all over the front bezel, and really shoddy lume application, which are completely different from the QC pics.

lawrencewatch@gmail.com 100% pulled a bait and switch and knew it. He even denied it when I first questioned his motives, and sounded very apologetic. But now the watch is here and confirms all suspicions.

I just don't understand what "TRUSTED" dealer is supposed to mean around here :/

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Trusted means they have agreed to abide by a set of conditions with the admin team and work them to settle any disputes.  It does not mean trustworthy in the sense you can leave your kids with them for babysitting services or give them your pin for your ATM card.  It seems you have an issue with the watch.  Tell the td what you want and, if not happy, contact the boys in blue.

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On 12/09/2017 at 16:50, dirkhunt said:

I admit, I keep reading over and over of shady things from these so called Trusted dealers, I cant work out how they get away with it, oh wait, rock and hard place.

The timegraph qc pictures are the most common source of this perfect clones are notorious for sending fake ones it's why I like toro he doesn't bother with timegraph photos ;)

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25 minutes ago, taifighter said:

UPDATE: I should have listened to you guys. The watch came today and it doesn't even remotely resemble the QC pics. The back is completely different, with different engraving, numbers, and sticker placements.  What's worse is that there are also cracks all over the front bezel, and really shoddy lume application, which are completely different from the QC pics.

lawrencewatch@gmail.com 100% pulled a bait and switch and knew it. He even denied it when I first questioned his motives, and sounded very apologetic. But now the watch is here and confirms all suspicions.

I just don't understand what "TRUSTED" dealer is supposed to mean around here :/

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VQmWhvf.jpg

That's some total bullshit! 

Especially after his shitty email to you I'd be pissed off

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that is shite man but you need to take it up with him initially if it goes south then contact a mod

 

but I have to say that is the worst I have seen from a TD

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Try clocktimer to see in the movement is running at 21.6 or 28.8 .  The older A7750 ran at 21.6 k.  Unlikely, but still possible you have one.  Personally, I would ask the dealer to obtain and send you a new bezel and install it locally.  How is the watch running?  Keeping time well?  winding smoothly?  Bezel action smooth?  Is the date aligned?   If all else is well I would avoid the return hassle and associated customs risks if possible.  Also, I would not do an exchange, only a return for refund after the earlier email response and piece received. 

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Forget the movement issue at this point, this watch isn't what you ordered or approved to be sent out. As always, try to settle this with the TD first (your pictures should be ample proof if the TD is reasonable), and if nothing comes of it, the mods have a way with the dealers here and can hopefully make it right.

This behavior is the complete opposite of what a Trusted Dealer should be. I guess this is one more TD to cross off of the "do business with" list.

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I'm not confident that this dealer will be overly accommodating.  I personally would want a refund, but I don't feel alot of trust. with the vibes I'm feeling,  I'd rather get the replacement insert and sell the watch off vs spend$50 or so to ship it back and hope a refund is issued.  I expect the dealer will try to find a reason to avoid the refund.  If a refund is the route chosen, I'd alert the mods before shipping to be sure all is properly documented to their satisfaction and I'd follow their instructions exactly. 

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5 hours ago, RUSH2112 said:

Trusted means they have agreed to abide by a set of conditions with the admin team and work them to settle any disputes.  It does not mean trustworthy in the sense you can leave your kids with them for babysitting services or give them your pin for your ATM card.  It seems you have an issue with the watch.  Tell the td what you want and, if not happy, contact the boys in blue.

I disagree in part, whilst I agree that the mods can help, the dealer should be trusted enough not to lie to a customer, and to show a customer images of a watch they clearly had no intentions of shipping to them, I have been seeing this more and more, and feel we deserve better from these so call Trusted Dealers, maybe remove them from the td list, probation, but to rule this shit out in the future, all dealers will need to be rescreened, or vetted to a degree where they are held responsible and puniched, which in itself should stand as a firm warning to other dealers to not try and pull the shit with us, the paying customers..

Edited by dirkhunt

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They are continuing to deny that they ever lied whatsoever, and they still insist they've been "completely honest" with me. I can't believe this.  Concrete evidence shoved in their faces and they say "you're just making assumptions, it's not the truth". 

 

"please PM a moderator (moderators are marked in light blue on the members online section at the bottom of the board index page)."

I'm looking at the board index and there's no light blue highlighting anywhere... Who do I contact?

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Appreciate all the words of advice, everyone.  Also, do the world a favour and spread this to absolutely everyone that you possibly can: STAY AWAY FROM LAWRENCEWATCH. This sums up their shadiness:

-Lawrence: Here are photos of YOUR watch
-Me: You sure this is my watch? Photos look different from the model.
-Lawrence: Yes. It is your watch.
  *watch arrives at my door*
-Me: That was not my watch... you didn't send me the real photos, you sent me a different watch
-Lawrence: Oh, WHOOPS! SORRY, INNOCENT MISTAKE BY OUR WATCH GUY HAHA! Too bad we only find out after you accepted it to ship to you.
 
2.
-Lawrence: We did timegrapher test on your watch. Here are photos.
-Me: You sure? The timegrapher reads a different movement, 21600.
-Lawrence: Oh, WHOOPS! SORRY, INNOCENT MISTAKE, our machine malfunctioned just now, and I didn't notice that 28800 is not 21600. Here are more photos
-Me: This is a different watch than the one before.
-Lawrence: "no need to ask about the 21600." (like wtf kind of explanation is that?)
 
3.
-Lawrence: We did QC inspection on your watch. "Your watch is a good one."
  *watch arrives at my door*
-Me: There are obvious defects all over the watch that even a blind man could see. You obviously did NOT do a QC check.
-Lawrence: WHOOPS! SORRY, INNOCENT MISTAKE, our QC guy must have made a mistake.
 
THREE major mistakes on one order that JUST HAPPEN to benefit them and "accidentally" deceive me? Do they really expect me to believe that?
Edited by taifighter

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Damn man... Really pains me to read about your troubles. Atleast I know a TD whom I wont be doing business in the future. Hopefully you will get some sort of good ending to this... :StraightFace: Stay strong!

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2 hours ago, taifighter said:

They are continuing to deny that they ever lied whatsoever, and they still insist they've been "completely honest" with me. I can't believe this.  Concrete evidence shoved in their faces and they say "you're just making assumptions, it's not the truth". 

 

"please PM a moderator (moderators are marked in light blue on the members online section at the bottom of the board index page)."

I'm looking at the board index and there's no light blue highlighting anywhere... Who do I contact?

Go to the Home page of the Forum and check at the bottom the members online!

You'll find some "Blue guy" currently online, click on his username and send him a PM, presenting the issue!

I hope everything turns out well for you mate!

Fingers crossed!

Cheers!

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6 hours ago, dirkhunt said:

I disagree in part, whilst I agree that the mods can help, the dealer should be trusted enough not to lie to a customer, and to show a customer images of a watch they clearly had no intentions of shipping to them, I have been seeing this more and more, and feel we deserve better from these so call Trusted Dealers, maybe remove them from the td list, probation, but to rule this shit out in the future, all dealers will need to be rescreened, or vetted to a degree where they are held responsible and puniched, which in itself should stand as a firm warning to other dealers to not try and pull the shit with us, the paying customers..

Youre free to disagree but I didn’t make this up.  

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This is a behaviour that I'd call anything BUT trusted.

 

Unless "Trusted" means someone who sends you a random shitty watch with wrong movement, defects, and get angry when you make you notice that.

Not better than any other scam fake watch site on the web.

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This sucks, I hope you get a resolution to this shitty transaction from the word go. 

 

I also hope this doesn't put you off this great hobby and forum and usually great customer service from our TD's. 

 

Namaste 

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Serious question here not meant to insult:

When initially emailing him to buy your watch, or at any time before it shipped out, did you mention you were a member of RWG?

I only ask because of a situation I had years ago that went along the lines of this but luckily didn't progress as far as yours:

 

- Email TD to check stock

- Place order for watch from TD

- Get runaround about how watch is now more expensive, and if I want it, I need to send more money

- Refuse and mention for the first time that I was a member of RWG, and found them here

- Almost immediately, they are willing to sell me the watch at original website price and the rest of my order proceeds without issue. Their wording was along the lines that they would look around for me to keep the price down at original cost

 

The reason I bring this up, is that you may have gotten the "standard customer" service from the TD. I by no means think we're special, or better than any other rep purchasers, but I feel that the TDs take more caution in following good business practices when they know we have recourse through the forum, as opposed to a non-forum buyer who will have no way to get through to the TD if they don't wish to email them back. I would hope none of the TDs operate this way, but based on your response to my questions above, it may she'd some light on the situation. I feel like a snob, but when I email a TD, I also let them know I am coming from the forum up front to hopefully avoid any issues.

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Yep, in my very first email I did indeed mention I was on RWG and explained that that was how I had found them, on the trusted dealers list. 

Since I've gotten the watch and documented the defects for them, I mentioned that it would look worse for them if they just keep denying responsibility if I had to take it to the mods and forums. Their only response to that aspect was "we never try to trick on people or lie to anyone, that's why our friend at forums invited us to sell at their forum."

Now, while they have admitted that the watch was not the same one, that the timegrapher pictures were 100% bogus, AND that the watch they sent me has defects that were never shown to me, they are saying they were ALL genuine mistakes, always made by "the QC guy" or "the watch guy was also dealing with ZF models at the time and mixed up the photos with XF". It's clear that from their perspective, the "mistake" they made was sending me TOO obvious of fake photos (wrong BPH, different caseback, spotless bezel) and hoping I wouldn't notice. I suspect they send these stock photos to everyone but few people get such a shoddily damaged copy to complain about.

After many more email exchanges, I have finally gotten them to agree to do a refund, but it just seems sketchy to ship the watch off and take their word for it to send my money back. Their promise means nothing to me now after they've broken my trust multiple times and also insulted my intelligence by thinking I'd believe those flimsy excuses. The mods will hopefully mediate this process.

I can safely say I will be taking all future dealings to Mary, who several people in this thread have recommended. In my very first inquiry email response she was already far more helpful than Lawrence ever was...

Edited by taifighter

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16 hours ago, teddy875 said:

Try clocktimer to see in the movement is running at 21.6 or 28.8 .  The older A7750 ran at 21.6 k.  Unlikely, but still possible you have one.  Personally, I would ask the dealer to obtain and send you a new bezel and install it locally.  How is the watch running?  Keeping time well?  winding smoothly?  Bezel action smooth?  Is the date aligned?   If all else is well I would avoid the return hassle and associated customs risks if possible.  Also, I would not do an exchange, only a return for refund after the earlier email response and piece received. 

Clock Tuner for Android has confirmed the 28,800 movement at least so it's good to know they didn't ship a 21600 A23J version. The watch appeared to be keeping time just fine last night, but when I woke up today at 10, the watch read 6:50AM and was still running, which means it stopped in the middle of the night and started up again (i wore it on my wrist to sleep so my movement must've gotten it going again). I am absolutely sure I gave it a full 20+ cranks at it yesterday. With a 40+ power reserve it makes no sense. I'll have to keep an eye on it throughout today and see what's up.

Edited by taifighter

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But maybe they were all honest mistakes made by Lawrence's subcontractors, who may be overworked and underpaid....maybe he's a stand-up guy but too busy to check on everything that his team are doing? Maybe we are wrong to expect Amazon service from a handful of people working in what we might perceive to be primitive/amateurish conditions? Do we really have any idea what's going on over there, with people we never speak to, in a society which is alien to us? 

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2 minutes ago, Undinist said:

But maybe they were all honest mistakes made by Lawrence's subcontractors, who may be overworked and underpaid....maybe he's a stand-up guy but too busy to check on everything that his team are doing? Maybe we are wrong to expect Amazon service from a handful of people working in what we might perceive to be primitive/amateurish conditions? Do we really have any idea what's going on over there, with people we never speak to, in a society which is alien to us? 

Let's assume your scenario is what happened. It still shouldn't be this hard to get the TD to admit his mistake and offer a refund when tbe watch is clearly different from the QC pictures. The guarantees TD's make mean nothing of they won't honor them

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You're right, but I have a feeling that often when they make a guarantee it doesn't mean the same to them as it does to us!  The language barrier and the cultural differences are bound to have us all at cross purposes sometimes.

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A 7750 needs a good 50 turns of the crown to be fully charged.  Add that to the rotor being unidirectional and you have the potential which you experienced where it stopped and restarted.  A correctly functioning A7750 should get about 45-48 hours of reserve.  This is what mine all see, with the ETA 7750 getting maybe an hour more.  Have you contacted the TD?  There's obvious damage and definitely not the watch you QA'd.  The damage needs to be addressed.   I should say this..you cannot overwind this movement, so do not be afraid to wind it.  Just be gentle as to avoid snapping the stem from excessive pressure.

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