McGilli 1 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Hi all! As I'm slowly learning about Panerai watches - could anyone please tell me what the difference would be between these two watches - that makes the $70 difference happen? I've put the link to each, but also copy/pasted the info from them for you to compare here thank you! http://www.ttw-1388.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_49&products_id=8700 http://www.ttw-1388.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_49&products_id=8784 *** I find it best if you open both links above in tabs in your browser side by side for easy comparison. FIRST 177 PN177NRU - Pam 177 N TI/RU Black Asia 6497 $238.00 H Factory Best!!! Pam 177 N Series Upgraded!!!... Platinum Plated Bridges/Dagger Swan Neck Regulator Movement!!!!..... Made with a Genuine as Sample... Original C1 + C3 Super Luminova on Dial ..The Best 1 : 1 Pam to Date .. Swiss Quality Colourless AR Coating ...No Mods Needed.. All Parts Directly interchangeable with the Genuine... Immediate Delivery!!!!!MOVEMENT: Asian 6497 Manual Handwind Movement, Platinum Plated Cortes de Geneve Decoration on Bridges, Correct Shape Dagger Swan Neck Regulator, Same Size Balance Wheel Assembly as per the GenuineCASE DIAMETER: 44mm THICKNESS: 15mm DIAL COLOR: Black Dial, Black Subdials, Numeral/Stick Hour Markers**Original C1+C3 Super Luminova Applied on Markers and NeedlesCASE MATERIAL: Full Solid Titanium Case 1:1 (Same color tone as genuine)BRACELET: Rubber (Antidust Quality) strap with Pre V Titanium BuckleFRONT GLASS: Sapphire Crystal Colourless AR Coated as per the Genuine. Done by Vendor who does for Swiss Genuine BrandsBACK GLASS: Sapphire Display Case Back**Individual N Series Serial NXXX/800 nos and Matching Individual BB nos , Every Serial Number is Individual Engraved with Individual Scan Film, Not by Running Computer ProgramCLASP TYPE: Titanium Tang BuckleOTHER REMARKS:Water Resistant No Recess Central Pinion Polished Head flushed Lug Screws Flush Polished Head Lever Pin Notch for Bezel Prying at 5:00 SECOND 177 PN177NRU1 - Pam 177 N TI/RU Black Asia 6497 21600bph $308.00 H Factory Best!!! Pam 177 N Series Upgraded!!!... Platinum Plated Bridges/Dagger Swan Neck Regulator Movement!!!!..... Made with a Genuine as Sample... Original C1 + C3 Super Luminova on Dial ..The Best 1 : 1 Pam to Date .. Swiss Quality Colourless AR Coating ...No Mods Needed.. All Parts Directly interchangeable with the Genuine... Immediate Delivery!!!!!MOVEMENT: Asian 6497 Manual Handwind Movement, Platinum Plated Cortes de Geneve Decoration on Bridges, Correct Shape Dagger Swan Neck Regulator, 17J, 21600bphCASE DIAMETER: 44mm THICKNESS: 15mm DIAL COLOR: Black Dial, Black Subdials, Numeral/Stick Hour Markers**Original C1+C3 Super Luminova Applied on Markers and NeedlesCASE MATERIAL: Full Solid Titanium Case 1:1 (Same color tone as genuine)BRACELET: Rubber (Antidust Quality) strap with Pre V Titanium BuckleFRONT GLASS: Sapphire Crystal Colourless AR Coated as per the Genuine. Done by Vendor who does for Swiss Genuine BrandsBACK GLASS: Sapphire Display Case Back**Individual N Series Serial NXXX/800 nos and Matching Individual BB nos , Every Serial Number is Individual Engraved with Individual Scan Film, Not by Running Computer ProgramCLASP TYPE: Titanium Tang BuckleOTHER REMARKS:Water Resistant No Recess Central Pinion Polished Head flushed Lug Screws Flush Polished Head Lever Pin Notch for Bezel Prying at 5:00 Edited October 30, 2017 by McGilli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leslie 62 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) After carefully reading the two watches (you nicely formulated the question; I also checked the web pages) I could not find the answer. It is a tough question. Since they are from Trusty Time, please ask the dealer Andrew. And, don't forget to share with us his answer. Best wishes! Edited October 30, 2017 by Leslie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brang1 3,980 Posted October 30, 2017 one has better photos? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McGilli 1 Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Leslie said: Since they are from Trusty Time, please ask the dealer Andrew. And, don't forget to share with us his answer. Ok, I've sent Andrew an email with the links, asking why one would be $70 more than the other one. As a newbie to replicas, I just at this point assume that more expensive replicas are better in some way, but this one was tough to find out why. Will post back when I hear from him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McGilli 1 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Response from Andrew in only a few minutes "The more expensive one is better quality in terms of case, dial and movement looks " Edited October 30, 2017 by McGilli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wriggles 12 Posted October 30, 2017 He's a salesman and you're asking him which is the better of two identical looking products, of course the answer will be the most expensive My advice is to do what anyone who wants to know anything about Panerai should do without being told, to go read ALEs guide, which is pinned at the very top of the Panerai review section, and check out the releases of that model. I don't do people's homework for them, it baffles me why people ignore this absolute goldmine of panerai info, and without even looking at it I can almost certainly guarantee H factory haven't done two releases of that watch in the space of one week ( look at the dates of both listings you linked), or even two different releases at all Up to you, believe the dealer blindly or educate yourself beforehand, it's your money Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McGilli 1 Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Wriggles said: He's a salesman and you're asking him which is the better of two identical looking products, of course the answer will be the most expensive My advice is to do what anyone who wants to know anything about Panerai should do without being told, to go read ALEs guide, which is pinned at the very top of the Panerai review section, and check out the releases of that model. I don't do people's homework for them, it baffles me why people ignore this absolute goldmine of panerai info, and without even looking at it I can almost certainly guarantee H factory haven't done two releases of that watch in the space of one week ( look at the dates of both listings you linked), or even two different releases at all Up to you, believe the dealer blindly or educate yourself beforehand, it's your money Thanks for the info. I'm still getting used to ALE's guide which is excellent material. So, based on Andrew's answer then - your information, and what's in the guide - is it safe to say: DO NOT always trust a RWG 'Trusted Dealer' to tell you the truth when it comes to them making a sale? Taken from the TD Criteria on RWG: "Our sole criteria is that they offer the kind of service that our membership rightly expects." I wouldn't expect to be misinformed in such a blatant manner on a simple question. PS. He knows I'm a new member of RWG as I let him know that right away a week ago when I started communicating with him about making a purchase from him. So again, just wondering if it's still buyer beware with TD's up until the sale is made... Edited October 30, 2017 by McGilli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wriggles 12 Posted October 30, 2017 You can make up your own mind. However no matter what never forget these are salespeople and they act as all sales people do when faced with a potential customer. Is it dishonest? Is it untrustworthy? Hardly, it's called reality. TDs won't leg it with your cash, they won't sell you a 7750 and send you a quartz, if things go wrong they will work with you and mods to resolve, that's why they're trusted. This is repeated constantly on threads here, maybe you should read more and more. You are also expecting that they know anything about watches, they are in general sales people, some know more than others. Like I said, the best thing anyone can do here is educate themselves about what they are looking for before going near any TD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GenTLe 1,490 Posted October 30, 2017 20 hours ago, McGilli said: As I'm slowly learning about Panerai watches - could anyone please tell me what the difference would be between these two watches - that makes the $70 difference happen? One is 21600BPH the other (the cheaper) has a "low beat" movement with 18800BPH. It's difficult to see, but still visible with some trick from the "quality pictures". Beware, that's a watch from 2011, not sure if still around... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McGilli 1 Posted October 30, 2017 Thank you Wriggles & GenTLe. Trust me I'll keep reading and learning. Yes, maybe I'm expecting a bit too (right now) much from the TD front end, but it's a learning experience - both of your replies have been great. Thanks again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wriggles 12 Posted October 30, 2017 Good job. It would appear that the descriptions of at least one is incorrect, and probably one isn't even H factory. Andrew probably doesn't even know himself, the listings are old and considering the number of available watches, expecting them to keep up with the details on all these watches particularly old ones is not realistic. I expect personally no matter which you order you'd likely get the same watch, but thats just my opinion, I just don't see H factory having two releases so close, again I'm sure a look around ALE's guide might enlighten me a bit more. It's more likely the confusion is due to laziness or an error on someones part in putting up the listing. We'll never know, but what can be learned is one of the golden rules of this hobby...take all descriptions of any watch with a decent pinch of salt. Personally I never use any listing older than about a year to purchase off. Stock changes, factories discontinue, releases are updated, it's simply too risky to be sure you can get it. If you're ordering something recently released by all means order from a listing, otherwise find what you want from researching here or elsewhere and order directly with clear details on exactly what you're after and know the product in advance. Just my two cents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deju 1,857 Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, GenTLe said: One is 21600BPH the other (the cheaper) has a "low beat" movement with 18800BPH. It's difficult to see, but still visible with some trick from the "quality pictures". Beware, that's a watch from 2011, not sure if still around... This^^^ some times reading between the lines you can spot the difference by what they omit to say. In this case they leave out the bph on the cheaper watch. I doubt other than that, there will any difference in quality. Why would the factory bother having different cases etc for the same model Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFleischer 4,354 Posted November 17, 2017 How about this Ti PAM 564 on sale at Toro for $139? http://www.tb-688.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1068 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
McGilli 1 Posted November 17, 2017 1 hour ago, NFleischer said: How about this Ti PAM 564 on sale at Toro for $139? http://www.tb-688.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1068 Nice - but says out of stock :( Without knowing much about PAM's, and without looking at the reference guide - the 564 is the same as a 177 but just brown dial? EDIT - did my own research. I looked at those quite a bit - but I can't pull off brown dials, never been able to. Same with brown leather straps.... Still - that's a good price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mysterio 18 Posted November 19, 2017 Don't rely on stock status on TD's websites too much. They might list it as out of stock but it may be available. Anyway, nothing to lose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
