Why no 36000bph movements?

[Member X 91]

Ok, this was just some idle thinking that crossed my mind the other day, so ignore me if I'm talking bollocks lol

 

I was just wondering why it is that we don't see any 36000bph movements? I understand that they have higher maintenance regimes needed to keep them running properly, but surely it's just a case of changing the 'notches' in the cogs to increase ticks per second and reduce distance travelled by the sweep second hand?

 

If this is the case, why don't they do more of them?

[KinCaidk 0]

hey, I wanna know this too!!

[trailboss99 994]

Higher tolerences and harder to make, more wear, less power reserve, mostly handwinding only due to higher tension on Main Spring.

And the fact that they are several times as expensive to make as 28 beat.

 

 

 

Col.

[KBH 7]

And mostly higher maintenance costs. Haven't most of the 36,000 makers given up on them?

 

And who made them? I'm thinking Seiko and Omega, but that's pretty much a guess.

[trailboss99 994]

And GP, Gerard whatever it is , Patak and a couple of others.

Who is it who makes ti 100th of a sec mechanical chrono with the 36 auto for the time

and a second manual wind MVT that beats at 360,000bph or somewhere near that.

Now THAT'S an amazing MVT!

 

 

 

Col.

[Member X 91]

That 1/100th of a second timer is on a HBB, isn't it?

 

I don't get why the 36000bph should be harder to make. For example, I presume the difference between a high beat and low beat handwind 6497 is entirely down to the cogs in it and how many teeth they have. Why not just make a cog with more teeth? Given the already tiny size of the movement parts, I don't see why adding a few extra teeth should make much difference B)

[greg_r 81]

Given the already tiny size of the movement parts, I don't see why adding a few extra teeth should make much difference B)

 

LOL - I guess you're not an engineer then....

 

It's down to tolerances - 'adding a few extra teeth' may not seem like much, but when you're working with tolerances in the microns, trust me - it's a big deal....

 

You come to a point of diminishing returns where adding extra complexity increases the difficulty of reliable manufacture - not to mention the mechanical integrity of the design - to a point where the exercise is self-defeating. What you end up with turns out to be inferior (higher reject levels, lower reliability, increased wear) than the more basic design that you were trying to 'improve' in the first place.

[trailboss99 994]

Think of it this way X: The average V8 tops out at what, 5 grand?

Now, go ask an engine builder to make you one that will rev to seven and a half and see what the answer is.

Those little cogs are wirling around half as fast again. More reduction is required, the strain on the drive train is greater

and it's all round a much harder engineering task. Service intervils drop to three years or so and people don't like spending too

much money on servicing. The other thing is yu realy don't need a 36 beat MVT any more than you need an eight that revs to

seven and a half grand.

 

 

 

Col.

[offshore 0]

Or even more succinctly-

A bog standard 454 is $10k

A fullrace version is $100k

And a V12 Lambo in race trim is $250K.

Just that the Lambo revs to 9k and puts out 1000HP!

And you rebuild the sucker every race meeting. ( Another 100K )

 

Offshore

[Member X 91]

Ok, point taken

 

Perhaps I oversimplify in my head... LoL

[graman 2]

I've heard that the balance staff jewels are lubed with a paste to keep the balance from seizing. Conventional oil isn't enough on a 36K.

 

Didn't Zenith start them with El Primero?

 

High maintenance.....Cost benefit on a 28,800 is much better, methinks.

[KBH 7]

I've heard that the balance staff jewels are lubed with a paste to keep the balance from seizing. Conventional oil isn't enough on a 36K.

 

Didn't Zenith start them with El Primero?

 

High maintenance.....Cost benefit on a 28,800 is much better, methinks.

 

Yeah, forgot Zenith.

[AustinTech 0]

I'd add that most watches simply don't have 36k movements, so why spend the time and money to build a rep version of an uncommon movement?

[trailboss99 994]

If you need a special paste to lube 36k imagine that 360k HW chrono? Ouch!

 

 

Col.

[graman 2]

I'm with you on that one mate...

[sfjuve 0]

I just saw an ad for a Louis Vuitton Chrono with 36,6 bph. No idea the cost.

[trailboss99 994]

Interesting. I don't think LV have done a 36.6 before.

Wonder what movement they are using?

Thanks for the info.

 

 

Col.

[sfjuve 0]

The LV is called Tambour LV227 automatic chronograph. "Manufacture movement, LV277 caliber, certified Chronometer." The watch is kind of ugly IMHO, but it must be smooth.