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PAM Daylight’s Review (Part II) – PAM196 H Noob 2010 vs. 196 I Hmaker & Noob 2013

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PAM Daylight’s Reviews

 

 

 

 

INTRODUCTION

 

This thread is the second of a group of reviews about replicas of PAM Chrono DAYLIGHTs released in 2013 that I will gradually publish as soon as possible.

I will study only the Daylights released in 2013 from Noob and H maker in comparison with Noob versions started about 2010.

We will consider only the models fitted with clones (actually non 1:1 copies) of Paneari OPXVII movement based in Swiss Valjoux 7753, which are the best possible in 2010 and at this moment.

We will also study a model that we can consider as a Pre-Daylight, a nice watch produced only during 2003 (F-series), which has the same Daylight case and structure, but that had no official name of Daylight, it is the PAM 162.

Therefore will be missing the reviews as follows:

- PAM 251 that has not been improved in 2013

- PAM 356 which is a new release of 2013 without previous versions and already evaluated with Super rep status.

- PAM 326 made of Ti and with blue dial, already improved in 2012 with a new movement clone A7753 with almost correct fonts and Date window placement, this replica is already considered a First Class.

- PAM 327, the same as PAM 326 but with Ti bracelet which has been never replicated.

In this thread we will see the review as follows:

PAM Daylight’s Review (Part II) – PAM196 H Noob 2010 vs. 196 I Hmaker & Noob 2013

We have already published:

- PAM Daylight’s Review (Part I) – PAM 250 / 236 – Noob 2010 vs. Noob 2013

http://www.rwg.bz/bo...showtopic=58729

In the near future will be published the reviews as follows:

- PAM Daylight’s Review – PAM 188 – Noob 2010 vs. Noob 2013 vs. Hmaker 2013

- PAM Daylight’s Review – PAM 224 – Noob 2010 vs. Noob 2013

- PAM Daylight’s Review – PAM 162 Pre-Daylight – Noob 2010 vs. Noob 2013

 

 

 

 

PAM Daylight’s Review (Part II) – PAM196 H Noob 2010 vs. 196 I Hmaker & Noob 2013

 

In below FIGURE you can see the pics and main features of PAM 196 Luminor Chrono:

 

PAM196-deficopiar.jpg

 

Below a general FIGURE of the gen and the three replicas to be analyzed

 

_PAM196-VIEWcomp-deficopiar_zps437b92a4.jpg

 

1- DIAL & CRYSTAL

Overall finish, colours and layout of three rep dials H maker, Noob 2010 and 2013 are very good and close to the gen.

Noob 2010 version has somehow an appearance of old replica with some evident flaws like the Date window position, but not everything is worse in this old version as we will see in the review.

In below FIGURE 1.A we can see the general comparison of four dials

 

 

_PAM196-DIALScomp-defi_zps0db11c33.jpg

FIGURE 1.A- DIALS PAM 196 - GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

 

 

 

1.1- DATE WHEEL & NUMERAL/STICK MARKERS @4 & 5

 

Bellow FIGURE 1.1.A shows the part of dial with the Date Wheel, 4-5 hours numeral markers and little stick minute markers around dial.

 

PAM196-DWMARKERS-COMPcopiar_zps6937b76e.jpg

FIGURE 1.1.A- DIAL @4 & @5 DATE WHEEL AND WINDOW – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

-Noob2010

-DW Window- Noob 2010: Blue marked placement, Gen: Orange marked placement. Window Noob 2010 is placed inwards and downwards and is a little narrower. Date wheel is less recessed than older versions, a little closer to gen, but still very recessed.

-Date changer- By pusher placed @10 like gen

-DW Fonts- Clearly thinner

-Numeral markers 4 & 5- Font a bit wider (few noticeable without close inspection but existent), correct thickness, They are placed a little outwards in the dial contour, you can see that markers are a bit closer to little minute-seconds white stick markers around the dial.

-Little white stick markers around dial- thicker and more marked

 

-H maker

-DW Window- Almost perfect in size and placement. Well finished edge. We can consider this issue is already corrected enough. Date wheel is almost non recessed like gen

-DW Fonts- Inaccurate font shape and clearly thinner.

-Date changer- By pusher placed @10 like gen

-Numeral markers 4 & 5- Correct font shape and thickness. The best accuracy of three reps

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked but a bit better than Noob. The best accuracy of three reps

 

-Noob2013

-DW Window- Almost perfect in size and placement. Well finished edge. We can consider this issue is already corrected enough. Date wheel is almost non recessed like gen. The best accuracy of three reps

-DW Fonts- Almost correct font and thickness (few difference), depending on numbers of date, but overall accurate enough. The best accuracy of three reps

-Date changer- By pusher placed @10 like gen

-Numeral markers 4 & 5- Correct font shape but clearly thicker and they are placed outwards in the dial contour, you can see that markers are closer to little minute-seconds white stick markers around the dial, even more than 2010 version (incomprehensible).

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

 

 

1.2- UPPER DIAL- MARKERS 10-11-12-1-2- LUMINOR PANERAI

 

We will se below the accuracy of upper part of dial as showed in below FOGURE 1.2.A

 

_PAM196-UPPERdial-comp-deficopiar_zpsb88f7a27.jpg

FIGURE 1.2.A- UPPER DIAL – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

-Noob2010

-Markers

Markers 10-11 12-1-2 have correct thickness, all them are a bit outwards closer to little white stick minute-second markers around the dial

10 marker- has inaccurate “0” because gen is more square shaped.

11 marker- Correct

12 marker- Correct

1 marker- Is extremely bad placed, outwards, displaced to right side and placed much higher than “11”. It is the same in three versions (incomprehensible)

2 marker- Correct

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

-LUMINOR PANERAI- Correct shape, thickness and placement

-Daylight- Well placement and thickness but a bit higher inaccurate fonts

 

-H maker

-Markers : Hmaker has the best markers accuracy and placement

Markers 10-11 12-1-2 have correct thickness, all them have good placement.

10 marker- Correct. The “0” has accurate shape whereas Noob versions is not correct.

11 marker- Correct, but the two “1” are a bit closer than gen ones.

12 marker- Correct

1 marker- Is extremely bad placed, outwards and much higher than “11”. It is the same in three versions (incomprehensible)

2 marker- Correct

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

-LUMINOR PANERAI- Correct shape, thickness and placement

-Daylight- Well placement and thickness but a bit higher inaccurate fonts

 

-Noob2013

-Markers

Markers 10-11 12-1-2 are clearly thicker, all them are placed outwards, closer to little white stick minute-second markers around the dial

10 marker- has inaccurate “0” because gen is more square shaped.

11 marker- Correct

12 marker- Correct

1 marker- Is extremely bad placed, outwards, displaced to right side and placed much higher than “11”. It is the same in three versions (incomprehensible)

2 marker- Correct

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

-LUMINOR PANERAI- Correct shape, thickness and placement

-Daylight- Well placement and thickness but a bit higher inaccurate fonts

 

 

 

1.3- MIDDLE DIAL- SUBDIALS @9 & @6 – STICK MARKERS WITH LUME @ 3 & 9

 

Now we will study the middle part of the dial with the seconds subdial @9 and the chrono minute counter subdial @3 and the stick markers @ 3 & 9 with lume.

See FIGURE 1.3.A

 

PAM196-MIDDLEdial-compcopiar_zpsf14843ed.jpg

FIGURE1.3.A- MIDDLE DIAL – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

-Noob2010

-Stick maker with lume @9- Correct

-Stick maker with lume @3- It is longer than gen

-Subdial @9- Correct very accurate. The best of three replicas

-Subdial @3- 20 &10 markers are not perfect in font and placement but they are accurate enough. Little white short markers around the subdial are thicker. The best of three replicas

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

 

-H maker

-Stick maker with lume @9- Correct

-Stick maker with lume @3- Correct

-Subdial @9- The white thin markers are a bit thicker

-Subdial @3- 20 &10 markers are not perfect in font and placement but they are accurate enough. Little white short markers around the subdial are thicker

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

 

-Noob2013

-Stick maker with lume @9- It is thicker

-Stick maker with lume @3- It is thicker

-Subdial @9- All markers either white thin markers or fat with lume markers are thicker. This is the worse of three replicas

-Subdial @3- 20 &10 markers are not perfect in font and placement but they are accurate enough. Little white short markers around the subdial and fat markers with lume are thicker. This is the worse of three replicas

-Little white stick markers around dial- In general thicker and more marked

 

 

 

1.4- LOWER DIAL – MARKERS @7 & 8 – STICK MARKER WITH LUME & SUBDIAL @6

 

Now we will study the lower part of the dial with the chrono hour counter subdial @6 the numeral markers @ 7 & 8.

See FIGURE 1.4.A

 

PAM196-LOWdial-compcopiar_zps0e7042c8.jpg

FIGURE1.4.A- LOWER DIAL MARKERS @7 & 8 – SUBDIAL @6 - GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

 

-Noob2010

-Subdial @6- It is accurate in general but markers font are a bit smaller.

-Stick maker with lume @6- It is clearly shorter

-Numeral marker 7- Font is a bit smaller with correct thickness, it is placed a bit outwards in the dial contour.

-Numeral marker 8- Font is a bit smaller because have the head of “8” a bit flatter and narrower, with correct thickness, they are placed a bit outwards in the dial contour.

-Little white stick markers around dial- thicker and more marked

-L SWISS MADE L- Correct fonts and correct placement

 

-H maker

H maker is the most accurate dial in 7-8 hours zone

-Subdial @6- It is accurate in general but markers font are a bit smaller.

-Stick maker with lume @6- It is clearly shorter

-Numeral marker 7- Font is a bit smaller with correct thickness, correct postion.

-Numeral marker 8- Font is a bit smaller overall, with correct thickness, correct position.

-Little white stick markers around dial- thicker and more marked

-L SWISS MADE L- Correct fonts and correct placement

 

-Noob2013

Noob 2013 is the woirse dial in 7-8 hours zone

-Subdial @6- It is accurate in general but markers font are a bit smaller.

-Stick maker with lume @6- It is clearly shorter and thicker.

-Numeral marker 7- Font is a bit smaller and clearly thicker (very noticeable), it is placed outwards in the dial contour.

-Numeral marker 8- Font is a little bit smaller because have the head of “8” a bit flatter and narrower, it is clearly thicker (very noticeable) and is placed outwards in the dial contour.

-Little white stick markers around dial- thicker and more marked

-L SWISS MADE L- Correct fonts and correct placement

 

 

1.5- HANDS

 

-Minute hand- Three versions have the same width, lume and length as gen. Noob versions are a bit longer but no noticeable. As you can see in below FIGURE 1.5.A.

 

PAM196-HANDMINUTE-compcopiar_zps2fe9bbaa.jpg

FIGURE 1.5.A- MINUTE HAND – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

-Hour hand- Three versions have the same width, lume and length as gen

 

PAM196-HANDHOUR-compcopiar_zps58888118.jpg

FIGURE 1.5.B- HOUR HAND – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

 

-Subdial @9 @3 @6 little hands- Three versions have accurate subdial hands almost the same as gen, no noticeable differences even in central pin.

 

-Big chrono seconds hand- Both Noob versions have the same chrono second hand, it has the same length than gen but they are clearly fatter form the point to the tail and the diameter of the circle around the pin is clearly bigger. Rep pin is a bit smaller and not as perfect as gen. H maker version has a chrono seconds hand almost the same as gen, maybe a bit thinner in the base, but central circle and pin are very similar to the gen. H maker is the most accurate big chrono second hand by far.

 

As we can see in below FIGURE 1.5.C

 

PAM196-HANDBIGSECONDS-compcopiar_zps4299a009.jpg

FIGURE 1.5.C- BIG CHRONO SECONDS HAND – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

 

1.6 -LUME

Noob 2010 version has a standard lume worse than gen, Noob 2013 version has a Super Luminova lume which arrives close to gen. Both lume are accurate in colour. Don’t trust the colour in FIGURES.

H maker has a very good Super lume even maybe stronger than gen. To be purist, this is not accurate but it is a feature very appreciated.

 

 

 

1.7-CRYSTAL

Noob 2010 is fitted with a good sapphire crystal, which is with slightly coloured AR or without AR depending on dealers. Maybe different batches of the same model of rep

Noob 2013 and H maker have sapphire crystal with single AR colourless like gen and very good quality. This is an improvement in relation to Noob 2010 version.

 

 

 

 

2- CASE-SET

 

Case-set finish and shape accuracy are overall good and very similar to gen in three replicas. We will see below more detailed review.

 

 

2.1- VIEW FROM 9 HRS.- DATE CHANGER @10

 

Below you can see in FIGURE 2.1.A the views of the cases from 9 hours position and the date changer pusher in order to get comparisons.

 

PAM196-from9-comp-FINALcopiar_zpsdf253553.jpg

FIGURE 2.1.A- VIEWS FROM 9 HOURS – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

There is no changes in Noob case, overall accurate case and lugs shape, lugs are a bit fatter than gen. Very good finish in both Noob.

H maker is as good as Noob cases with the same quality of finish and similar accuracy of shape from 9 hrs

 

Below you can see in FIGURE 2.1.B enlarged pics of the cases from 9 hours position showing date changer pusher in order to get comparisons.

 

Noob 2013 has improved a little the finish of date changer pusher contour and Noob pusher are in general quite accurate, but the inner pusher of the gen has internally hexagonal shape whereas the rep is circular. Anyway we can consider accurate date changer pushers of both Noob versions.

However H maker version has inaccurate construction because either the inner pusher or the pusher contour have circular shape, even the hole in contour to shelter the inner pusher. In this way the date changer pusher of H maker is not accurate and you can notice the differences. See FIGURE 2.1.B

 

PAM196-from9-dateadjust-comp-FINALcopiar_zpsc7078b3c.jpg

FIGURE 2.1.B- VIEWS OF DATE CHANGER PUSHER @10 – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

 

2.2- VIEW FROM 3 – SIDE VIEW OF CROWN, CROWN GUARD, LEVER & CHRONO PUSHERS

 

Below you can see in FIGURE 2.2.A the views of the cases from 3 hours position, with side views of Crown, CG, lever and chrono pushers in order to get comparisons.

 

PAM196-from3-compcopiar_zpscdb2a6b9.jpg

FIGURE 2.2.A- VIEWS FROM 3 HOURS -SIDE WIEW OF CROWN, CROWN GUARD, LEVER & CHRONO PUSHERS – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

We can see the same as above about finish and accuracy of shapes from 3 hrsregarding CG, lever and chrono pushers side view

 

 

But we need to enlarge the pics to see differences in FIGURE 2.2.B

 

PAM196-from3-AMPLI-compcopiar_zps3de618c5.jpg

FIGURE 2.2.B- ENLARGED VIEWS FROM 3 HOURS – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

Seeing above FIGURE we have the remarlks as follows:

 

-Noob 2010

-Chrono pushers- Accurate shape, but they are placed lower than gen in relation with the curved cushion shape (green arrow)

-CG- Seems accurate in general, but it is placed, like the pushers lower in relation to cushion shape. The Upper part (blue arrow) has the same thickness as gen. Noob versions have the best CG

-Crown- the profil is clearly “slim” in comparison with a “fat” gen crown. It is a clear flaw (red arrow).

 

-H maker

-Chrono pushers- Accurate shape, but they are placed clearly lower than gen in relation with the curved cushion shape (green arrow)

-CG- It is placed, like the pushers, clearly lower in relation to cushion shape. The Upper part (blue arrow) is clearly inaccurate and thinner than gen. The worse CG of three versions.

-Crown- the profil is accurate in comparison with a “fat” gen crown. It is a clear improvement in comparison with both Noob versions (red arrow). H maker is the best Crown of three versions by far.

-Noob 2013

-Chrono pushers- Accurate shape, they are placed better tha 2010 version, but still a bit lower than gen in relation with the curved cushion shape (green arrow)

-CG- Seems accurate in general, it is placed a bit better than 2010 version, but still, like the pushers, a bit lower in relation to cushion shape. The Upper part (blue arrow) has the same thickness as gen. Noob versions have the best CG

-Crown- the profil is clearly “slim” in comparison with a “fat” gen crown, even worse tha 2010 version. It is a clear flaw not improved from 2010 version (red arrow).

 

 

 

 

2.3- BEZEL

 

Finish and dimensions of bezels are good and accurate in three versions (see previous pics). But there are improvements in the fonts of bezel tachymeter in Noob 2103 and H maker version. See FIGURE 2.3.A

 

PAM196-BEZELFONTS-compcopiar_zpse089e290.jpg

FIGURE 2.3.A- BEZEL TACHYMETER FONTS – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 COMPARISON

 

 

-Bezel fonts- In Noob 2010 version there are differences in fonts in comparison to the gen and they are a bit thicker, less crisp and less clean than gen ones. See clear differences in “

1” and “2”, but really almost all characters are different.

Noob 2013 and H maker versions have corrected thickness and fonts shape and you can clearly see that are almost the same as gen. See “1” and “2” to realize the improvement regarding Noob 2010 version, in 2013 versions either Noob or H maker the fonts are very similar to gen characters. This is a clear improvement of Noob 2013 and H maker versions

-TACHYMETRE / TACHYMETER –

G and H-series have TACHYMETRE inscription in the bezel

I-series has TACHYMETER

Noob 2010- is correct because has TACHYMETRE and it is H –series

H maker- Is correct because has TACHYMETER and it is I-series

Noob 2013- is wrong because has TACHYMETRE and it is I-series

 

 

 

 

2.4-CG, LEVER , CROWN & CHRONO PUSHERS FRONTAL VIEW

 

PAM196-CG-compcopiar_zpsbf201992.jpg

FIGURE 2.4.A- CG, LEVER, CROWN & CHRONO PUSHERS FRONTAL VIEW – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2103 COMPARISON

 

-Noob2010

Finish- of Noob 2010 CG is way worse than gen, with overpolished and uneven surfaces and rounded edges and inner corners, very similar to H maker CG.

Shape- is not completely accurate. The hollow to shelter the crown is bigger than gen and then the external side of the CG is thinner.

Fitting- Noob 2010 CG doesn’t fit the case at the sides.

CG pin -is not as flattened and well finished as gen.

Crown- has nice finish and beveled, but remember it has inaccurate “slim” profile

Crown tube- is a bit longer and inaccurate.

Lever-has inaccurate roller support shape and with roller and very visible roller pin, unlike gen which has not this roller.

Bear in mind that gen PAM 188 and 196 have not roller whereas gen PAM 250 and 251 have roller.

Lever tip- is almost correct, better than H maker but worse than Noob 2013 tip.

Chrono pushers- have accurate shape rounded like gen.

 

-H maker

Finish- of H maker CG is way worse than gen, with overpolished and uneven surfaces and rounded edges and inner corners, very similar to Noob 2010 CG. See the difference of finish with the gen in below FIGURE 2.4.B, lease note the rounded inner corners (orange arrows ) and the overpolished and rounded inner edges (green arrows)

 

PAM196-CG-detailHm-GEN-compcopiar_zpsc7949a88.jpg

FIGURE 2.4.B- CG FINISH FRONTAL VIEW – GEN-H MAKER COMPARISON

 

Shape- of CG is completely accurate. But CG pin is placed higher and inwards.

Fitting- H maker CG seems to fit perfectly the case at the sides.

CG pin- is not as flattened and well finished as gen.

Crown- has nice finish and beveled, besides it has correct “fat“ profile. The best crown and tube of three replicas by far.

Crown tube- is quite accurate.

Lever- has not roller like gen and the shape is accurate.

Bear in mind that gen PAM 188 and 196 have not roller whereas gen PAM 250 and 251 have roller.

Lever tip- shape is a little wrong. The worse of three studied replicas.

Chrono pushers- have inaccurate shape less rounded than gen. The owrse pushers of three versions.

 

-Noob2013

Finish- of Noob2013 CG is as well finished as gen, with uniform surfaces and perfect square edges and inner corners.

Shape- is completely accurate.

Fitting- Noob 2013 CG in the pic doesn’t fit the case at the sides but it is an isolated case from first productions. This is a fixed issue following information and pics of Puretime’s Angus in RG:

http://www.repgeek.c...ad.php?t=212754

CG pin- is not as flattened and well finished as gen, very similar to Noob 2010.

Crown- has nice finish and beveled, but remember it has inaccurate “slim” profile

Crown tube- is a bit longer and inaccurate.

Lever- has not roller like gen and the shape is accurate.

Bear in mind that gen PAM 188 and 196 have not roller whereas gen PAM 250 and 251 have roller.

Lever tip- is very gen-like, the best lever tip shape of three replicas.

The chrono pushers have accurate shape rounded like gen

 

 

 

 

2.5-CASEBACK

Regarding casabacks we need to make two parts because Noob 2010 is H-series whereas H maker and Noob 2013 are I-series. Therefore there are two types of casebacks

We will firstly analyze the rep Noob 2010 H-series

 

-Noob 2010 H-series

PAM 196 H-series was introduced with OP number OP 6637 and the total quantity was 1500 units.

See below the FIGURE 2.5.A with the comparison of Noob 2010 H-sereis caseback and gen H-series

 

PAM196-CASEBACKHseries-Noob2010-GENcomp-finalcopiar_zps0527ffea.jpg

FIGURE 2.5.A- CASEBACKS – GEN-NOOB 2010 H-SERIES COMPARISON

 

Finish- Rough in comparison to gen, mainly in the fine brushed circular ring where are LUMINOR and Daylight inscriptions. Correct polished sides

LUMINOR- acceptable accuracy and placement

OFFICINE PANERAI- acceptable accuracy and placement

FIRENZE-1860-AUTOMATIC-CHRONO-STAINLESS STEEL-acceptable accuracy

OP 6637-PB number- Much narrower fonts completely inaccurate. Wrong placement (higher).

H-series -Production number/Total production- Narrower fonts. Wrong total H-series production: rep indicates 700 units, but the correct quantity was 1500 units. This is due to maker is using the caseback millesimation of PAM 188 whih was 700 units.

Daylight- acceptable accuracy and placement

Inner inscription Swiss Made- this inscription is missing in 2010 versions

Quality of inscriptions- good quality in general but a bit less clean and crisp than gen.

 

And now we will analyze the casebacks of H maker and Noob 2013 both I-series.

See below the FIGURE 2.5.B with the comparison of H maker and Noob 2013 I-series casebacks and gen I-series

 

PAM196-CASEBACKIseries-compcopiar_zps83e63dd0.jpg

FIGURE 2.5.B- CASEBACKS – GEN-H MAKER-NOOB 2013 I-SERIES COMPARISON

 

-H maker I-series

PAM 196 I-series was introduced with OP number OP 6665 and the total quantity was 1000 units.

Finish- A bit rough in comparison to gen but way better than Noob 2010 version. But not so much as Noob 2013. Correct polished sides.

LUMINOR- acceptable accuracy and placement

OFFICINE PANERAI- acceptable accuracy and placement

FIRENZE-1860-AUTOMATIC-CHRONO-STAINLESS STEEL- acceptable accuracy and placement

OP 6665-PB number- More accurate than 2010 version but not perfect, because they are a bit taller. Good placement

I-ser¡es -Production number/Total production- Fonts are wider and inaccurate. Correct total I-series production indicating 1000 units like gen.

Daylight- acceptable accuracy and placement

Inner inscriptions Swiss Made- This inscription, missing in 2010 version, is laser engraved in H maker version and in Noob 2013. A little improvement

Quality of inscriptions- very good quality in general almost as deep, clean and crisp as gen.

 

-Noob 2013 I-series

PAM 196 I-series was introduced with OP number OP 6665 and the total quantity was 1000 units.

Finish- A bit rough in comparison to gen but way better than Noob 2010 version and a bit better than H maker. Nice fine brushed circular ring where are LUMINOR and Daylight inscriptions much better than 2010 version. Correct polished sides. The best finished caseback of three replicas.

LUMINOR- acceptable accuracy and placement

OFFICINE PANERAI- acceptable accuracy and placement

FIRENZE-1860-AUTOMATIC-CHRONO-STAINLESS STEEL- acceptable accuracy and placement

OP 6665-PB number- More accurate than 2010 version but not perfect. Good placement

I-ser¡es -Production number/Total production- acceptable accurate fonts but far to perfection. Correct total I-series production indicating 1000 units like gen.

Daylight- acceptable accuracy

Inner inscriptions Swiss Made- This inscription, missing in 2010 version, is laser engraved in 2013 version. A little improvement

Quality of inscriptions- very good quality in general, almost as deep, clean and crisp as gen.

Overall Noob 2013 is the better caseback of three replicas

 

 

 

 

3- MOVEMENT

See below FIGURE 3.A the comparisons

 

PAM196-movement-compcopiar_zps314e3d01.jpg

FIGURE 3.A- MOVEMENTS PANERAI OPXII AND “CLONES” – GEN-NOOB 2010-H MAKER-NOOB 2103 COMPARISON

 

Three replicas are fitted with two different clones (non 1:1 copies) of the Panerai OPXII based in Swiss Vlajoux7753 movement. Maker and dealers announce that they are 1:1 clones, which is not the truth.

Noob 2010 version has the date window in 7750 placement, although it is less recessed that in this movement and the change of date starts about 10 hrs.

In Noob 2013 and H maker versions the date window is already well placed and few recessed like Swiss 7753, but the change of date starts in a point between 10 o’clock and half past 10 hrs. unlike the Swiss 7753.

All rep A7753 movements have WOBBLING chrono minute counter hand, flaw not improved in last versions

The appearance and rotor decoration and marks are good and similar to gen with some differences like the rotor bearing and some internal details. Good enough in spite of flaws.

H maker has engraved a serial number in the same place of gen movement.

 

 

 

4- STRAP AND DEPLOYANT

H maker and Noob 2010 and 2013 versions seem to be fitted with the same quality deployant buckles already well known from these makers. No changes and good quality enough.

Straps are also the same and with already known rep quality: very good for rubber and standard for leather ones. H maker offers an option with a Nylon strap. Noob is also offering the good quality SS bracelet of PAM 236.

 

 

 

CONCLUSIONS AND EVALUATIONS IN NEXT POST

Edited by ALE7575

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CONCLUSIONS

As usually new H maker and Noob 2013 versions have many improvements and some worsenings in comparison with 2010 version.

 

Let’s see firstly the flaws of Noob 2010 version

 

-Flaws of Noob 2010 version

-Wrong and thinner date wheel fonts

-Wrong date window placement and size

-Wrong markers fonts in “10”-“8“

-Very bad placement of “1” marker

-Other markers some little differences

-Shorter stick marker @6

-Longer stick marker @9

-Little white stick minute-seconds markers around dial are thicker and more marked.

-White stick subdials @3 & @9 are thicker and more marked

-Wrong bezel tachymeter fonts

-Wrong shape of big chrono seconds hand

-CG and chrono pusher are placed a bit lower in relation to cushion shape edge.

-Bad finish in CG, overpolished, with rounded inner edges and corners

-Bad fitting CG-case, showing gaps

-Wider CG hollow to shelter the crown

-Bad finish of CG pin

-Wrong shape of lever part pushing the crown

-Wrong lever roller with very evident roller pin, because gen has not this device

-“Slim” crown

-Wrong crown tube

-Wrong Daylight font on dial

-Rough finish on caseback

-Inaccurate OP6637 and PB serial number fonts and position

-Wrong Total production quantity on caseback

-Inaccurate fonts of Production number and total

-Inner caseback SWISS MADE inscription is missing

-Movement starts date change about 10,30 hrs.

-Wobbling chrono minute counter hand

-Standard crystal with standard blue coloured AR-Standard quality rep lume

 

We will see below the improvements and worsening included in H maker and Noob 2013 versions in comparison to Noob 2010

 

-Improvements of H maker version

-Correct date window placement

-Correct font in marker “10”

-Slightly better “8” although not completely accurate

-Correct length of stick marker @9

-Correct bezel tachymeter fonts

-Correct shape of big chrono seconds hand

-Correct fitting CG-case

-Correct width of CG hollow

-Correct shape of lever part pushing the crown

-Lever without roller, like gen

-Correct “fat” crown like gen

-Correct crown tube

-Better caseback finish

-Better fonts and placement in OP6637 and PB serial number

-Correct total production quantity

-A bit better fonts of production number and total

-Laser engraved caseback SWISS MADE inscription

-High quality sapphire crystal with high quality single colourless AR like gen

-High quality Luminova super lume

-Serial number engraved in movement bridge

-Worsenings of H maker version

-Chrono pushers and CG are placed lower in relation to cushion shape edge

-Crhono pushers frontal shape are wrong, less rounded

-CG side shape from 3 hrs. is different with thinner part over the lever

-CG finish is even worse than Noob 2010 with a lot of overpolishing and very rounded inner edges and corners.

-CG pin finish is even worse than Noob 2010

-Wrong CG pin placement

-Date changer pusher@10 completely round and wrong

-Worse shape of lever tip

 

 

-Improvements of Noob 2013 version

-Correct date window placement

-Correct date wheel fonts

-Correct length of stick marker @9 but it is clearly thicker

-Correct bezel tachymeter fonts

-Little better side placement (higher like gen) of CG and chrono pusher in relation to cushion shape edge

-Correct finish of CG very gen-like with square inner edges and corners

-Correct fitting CG-case (last batches)

-Correct width of CG hollow

-Correct shape of lever part pushing the crown

-Lever without roller, like gen

-A bit better lever tip shape

-Better caseback finish

-Better fonts and placement in OP6637 and PB serial number

-Correct total production quantity

-Better fonts of production number and total

-Laser engraved caseback SWISS MADE inscription

-High quality sapphire crystal with high quality single colourless AR like gen

-High quality Luminova super lume

-Worsenings of Noob 2013 version

-All markers either numeral or sticks are clearly thicker. This is a very noticeable flaw and is evident even in subdials, making overall inaccurate Noob 2013 dial. This is the most important flaw of Noob 2013. You should be able of living with this matter to accept this Noob 2013 version.

-Wrong TACHYMETRE inscription on dial, I-series must be TACHYMETER

-A little worse “slim” crown (few noticeable)

 

 

 

 

Let’s see below the remaining flaws of new versions:

 

Remaining flaws in H maker version

-Little white stick minute-seconds markers around dial are thicker and more marked.

-Wrong placement “1” marker

-“11” marker has the characters closer than gen

-A bit wrong “8” marker font

-Stick marker @6 is shorter

-Date wheel fonts are Thinner and with inaccurate shape.

-Chrono pushers and CG are placed lower in relation to cushion shape edge

-Chrono pushers frontal shape are wrong, less rounded

-CG side shape from 3 hrs. is different with thinner part over the lever

-CG finish is even worse than Noob 2010 with a lot of overpolishing and very rounded inner edges and corners.

-CG pin finish is even worse than Noob 2010

-Wrong CG pin placement

-Date changer pusher@10 completely round and wrong

-A bit wrong lever tip shape

-Wrong fonts in caseback engravings OP-PB and production/total

-Movement starts date change about 10,30hrs.

-Wobbling minute counter chrono second hand

 

Remaining flaws in Noob 2013 version

-All markers are overall thicker, making inaccurate the dial and subdials

-Little white stick minute-seconds markers around dial are thicker and more marked.

-Wrong placement “1” marker

-“10” marker has the character “0” more rounded than gen

-Wrong “8” marker font

-Stick marker @6 is shorter

-Wrong shape of big chrono seconds hand

-Wrong TACHYMETRE inscription on dial, I-series must be TACHYMETER

-Very “slim” crown

-Wrong crown tube

-Wrong fonts in caseback engravings OP-PB and production/total

-Movement starts date change about 10,30 hrs.

-Wobbling minute counter chrono second hand

 

Bearing in mind above considerations we can see that the new versions are better than Noob 2010 version, although there are also some worsenings added.

 

-Which is the best version available for PAM 196, H maker or Noob 2013?

The answer to this question depends, as many times, on personal taste.

 

Can you live with the more evident flaws of each version?

 

-If you choose Noob 2103 you will get perfect CG finish and date fonts, but overall thicker markers noticeable throughout the dial, inaccurate big chrono second hand and “slim” crown

-If you choose H maker you will get more accurate dial, but completely wrong date fonts, way worse CG finish with overpolished and rounded edges, thinner CG and inaccurate position of CG and chrono pushers.

You have to decide with above info

 

 

 

EVALUATIONS

Bear in mind that the analysis of ths review is very detailed and with many enlargements of the FIGURES, many flaws above mentioned, although existent, are many times few noticeable and only by side by side comparisons.

Three studied replicas are very well manufactured and overall quality is awesome.

Considering the improvements and remaining flaws, we can consider that H maker and Noob 2013 are in the same level, with a slight advantage of H maker due to the big Noob flaw of thicker markers although the bad CG finish of H maker is very disappointing. Noob 2010 is in a lower level.

 

There are many flaws in three replicas to get a Super rep status (althought the solid caseback) but the great manufacture quality gives them the First Class status

We can say that Noob 2010 version is a First Class replica of low level and H maker and Noob 2013 are First Class replicas of medium-high level

We must wait for new releases to get a real Super replica of PAM 196.

 

 

***********************************************************************************************

 

 

Please inform about your comments regarding above review in order to improve it for everyone in the forum

Sorry for the possible mistakes

 

Waiting for next Daylight’s review

 

Thanks for reading

ALE

Edited by ALE7575

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Sunbird

ALE,

 

Thanks for the fantastic review. I am trying to get my head around all the different PAM models, makers and various quality REPS.

 

Your analysis is extrmely comprehensive and enlightening.

 

Thanks.

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dunkster

Bravo

 

Wow,

 

Excellent review, obviously your passion and its clear. Thank you, i consider myself better educated. Well done Sir.

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YahButWhy

Great and helpful review. I am awaiting your 224 review as that is my "grail" and have been waiting for the most recent release.

 

Basis your intent to review is it out yet??

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BigBuys

And another one for the books! Wonderful job and over the top detail comparisons that will serve as the 'go to' for years to come.

 

Thank you for all your hard work.

 

I only wish that I could still focus long enough to produce such a piece of reference work.

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HeavyKrush

Great job Ale.

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digger2

Thank you, great work as always!

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Disfin

i prefer a bit more detail in my reviews, but this will have to do... :)

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stormtooper4

Fantastic work than you

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ALE7575

Included more info in the review:

PAM 196 G and H-series have TACHYMETRE inscription in the bezel

PAM 196 I-series has TACHYMETER

Maybe you can find some G or H watches with TACHYMETER inscription, like below showed:

http://www.watchuwant.com/watches/panerai-pam-196-h-luminor-daylight-chronograph-44mm-stainless-steel-recently-serviced-januar

http://www.watchuwant.com/watches/panerai-pam-196-g-luminor-daylight-chronograph-44mm-stainless-steel-boxpapers-100-complete

but surely they are repaired watches with new bezels of I-series

I have already corrected the review and pics and included the detected flaws

Noob 2010- is correct because has TACHYMETRE but it is H -series

Noob 2013- is wrong because has TACHYMETRE but it is I-series

H maker- Is correct because has TACHYMETER and it is I-series

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Kewlin2001

Ale:

I am new to the Rep game and I must applaud you on the thoroughness of your critiques of PAMs. I have purchased some inferior PAM reps in the past which ultimately means I just gave away money. This detailed review was an amazing help as I had a Daylight rep on my radar.

 

You mentioned "super rep" as a designation. I assume those are the best quality on the market. Can you tell me which PAM reps have made it to that level in your reviews?

 

I am looking to purchase several different models between now and the end of the calendar year and want to get the best bang for my buck!

 

Thanks in advance...

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ALE7575

Ale:

I am new to the Rep game and I must applaud you on the thoroughness of your critiques of PAMs. I have purchased some inferior PAM reps in the past which ultimately means I just gave away money. This detailed review was an amazing help as I had a Daylight rep on my radar.

 

You mentioned "super rep" as a designation. I assume those are the best quality on the market. Can you tell me which PAM reps have made it to that level in your reviews?

 

I am looking to purchase several different models between now and the end of the calendar year and want to get the best bang for my buck!

 

Thanks in advance...

 

Many thanks for your kind comments

 

There are two reviews of Daylights published in some days will be the PAM 188 and then PAM 162 and PAM 224

 

If you like to know everything about all PÂMs replicas available and their evaluation you must consult PAM GUIDE:

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/reference-pam-review-107365.html?t=107365

 

In this thread you will get all info you need to evaluate and buy a PAM replica with many links to info, reviews and threads about them.

 

Enjoy PAM world

 

ALE

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ALE7575

Hi,

 

Could Ale or a member please confirm if this a new version? Came up as new release on Trusty

 

 

http://www.ttw8488.c...oducts_id=13826

 

 

This watch is a new version from H maker

H maker did't make PAM 224, but they made other Daylights. H maker Daylights had very bad CG, that seems the best improvement of new version of H maker, which features a very nice CG, very gen-like and a better lever shape and tip

The case seems better finished and with better defined edges, and date changer @10 is accurate, because 2013 versions of H maker Daylights was different from gen

The big second hand of chrono is also improved being the shape more accurate than previous Daylights

Dial layout and markers are very good, even more accurate than Noob A7753 from 2013. Subdial @3 is better than Noob, but subdial @6 is worse than Noob

The inscriptions LUMINOR PANERAI are worse than Noob, buit Firenze inscription is more accurate.

Bezel are very similar to Noob

Overall case are similar to Noob 2013

Casebacks are similar regarding quality and accuracy

We cannot assure about the accuracy of blue dial colour

 

IMPORTANT- maker says the date wheel font has been improved but this is not true. Date wheel font is thinner than gen, in the same way as previous H maker versions. This is maybe the more obvious tell of the front side.

 

Therefore, we have a nicely built rep, with a nice finish, overall similar or even better than Noob A7753 from 2013, but with inaccurate date wheel fonts

 

ALE

Edited by ALE7575

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Arj

Hi,

 

Could Ale or a member please confirm if this a new version? Came up as new release on Trusty

 

 

http://www.ttw8488.c...oducts_id=13826

 

 

This watch is a new version from H maker

H maker did't make PAM 224, but they made other Daylights. H maker Daylights had very bad CG, that seems the best improvement of new version of H maker, which features a very nice CG, very gen-like and a better lever shape and tip

The case seems better finished and with better defined edges, and date changer @10 is accurate, because 2013 versions of H maker Daylights was different from gen

The big second hand of chrono is also improved being the shape more accurate than previous Daylights

Dial layout and markers are very good, even more accurate than Noob A7753 from 2013. Subdial @3 is better than Noob, but subdial @6 is worse than Noob

The inscriptions LUMINOR PANERAI are worse than Noob, buit Firenze inscription is more accurate.

Bezel are very similar to Noob

Overall case are similar to Noob 2013

Casebacks are similar regarding quality and accuracy

We cannot assure about the accuracy of blue dial colour

 

IMPORTANT- maker says the date wheel font has been improved but this is not true. Date wheel font is thinner than gen, in the same way as previous H maker versions. This is maybe the more obvious tell of the front side.

 

Therefore, we have a nicely built rep, with a nice finish, overall similar or even better than Noob A7753 from 2013, but with inaccurate date wheel fonts

 

ALE

 

Wow, many thanks ALE! Didn't actually expect an answer from you given your legendary status! :lol: This is one of my favourite models, appreciate your insight!

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ALE7575

Hi,

 

Could Ale or a member please confirm if this a new version? Came up as new release on Trusty

 

 

http://www.ttw8488.c...oducts_id=13826

 

 

This watch is a new version from H maker

H maker did't make PAM 224, but they made other Daylights. H maker Daylights had very bad CG, that seems the best improvement of new version of H maker, which features a very nice CG, very gen-like and a better lever shape and tip

The case seems better finished and with better defined edges, and date changer @10 is accurate, because 2013 versions of H maker Daylights was different from gen

The big second hand of chrono is also improved being the shape more accurate than previous Daylights

Dial layout and markers are very good, even more accurate than Noob A7753 from 2013. Subdial @3 is better than Noob, but subdial @6 is worse than Noob

The inscriptions LUMINOR PANERAI are worse than Noob, buit Firenze inscription is more accurate.

Bezel are very similar to Noob

Overall case are similar to Noob 2013

Casebacks are similar regarding quality and accuracy

We cannot assure about the accuracy of blue dial colour

 

IMPORTANT- maker says the date wheel font has been improved but this is not true. Date wheel font is thinner than gen, in the same way as previous H maker versions. This is maybe the more obvious tell of the front side.

 

Therefore, we have a nicely built rep, with a nice finish, overall similar or even better than Noob A7753 from 2013, but with inaccurate date wheel fonts

 

ALE

 

Wow, many thanks ALE! Didn't actually expect an answer from you given your legendary status! :lol: This is one of my favourite models, appreciate your insight!

 

Thanks for your kind words. Glad to be helpful

There are two more points to comment:

- Chrono pushers are polished like gen in last version from H maker

- Date wheel fonts don't seem as bad in the real watch in the market

 

Read this review from a RWI PCTeam member: Polonus TM

https://www.replica-...e-chrono-review

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=107447

ALE

Edited by ALE7575

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Edvinasi

Hello,

If possible i need help to determinate if a watch i am willing to buy is original or not. the seller said he bought it in a second hand shop 5 years ago and claims its original. Thank you

2rc9b9j.jpg

vry4jq.jpg

f3b6kp.jpg

 

jai6n4.jpg

332rrbm.jpg

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mysterio
On 12/7/2017 at 03:25, Edvinasi said:

Hello,

If possible i need help to determinate if a watch i am willing to buy is original or not. the seller said he bought it in a second hand shop 5 years ago and claims its original. Thank you

2rc9b9j.jpg

vry4jq.jpg

f3b6kp.jpg

 

jai6n4.jpg

332rrbm.jpg

Rep. Most likely a Noob 2010.

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