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ALE7575

PAM 113 Noob dial prototype - Review

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ALE7575

PROVISIONAL IMPRESSIONS - Prototype of PAM 113 Noob dial

 

As you surely know Toro is developing with Noob new versions of Pam 113 and 114.

Some months ago Toro presented prototypes of the new dial PAM 113. After some corrections, more samples and many discussion about this matter. Toro decided to send me a dial sample for review in order to get information for the maker about flaws and necessary corrections.

 

As you know I don’t like PAM white dials and have not enough experience about these dials. I didn’t like to do the review because I have no gen to make comparisons, but Toro insisted and sent me the dial

 

Today I have already seen the prototype of PAM 113 dial from Noob kindly sent to me by Toro

 

I have examined this dial, take several pics and made some Photoshop overlapping comparisons in order to get some provisional opinions about this dial.

I have also examined several pics of H maker Pam 113 dial to make some comparisons and determine the possible improvements of new Noob dial.

As above said this is a first contact and the conclusions are provisional, to be confirmed and proved by more pics, comparisons and analysis.

All opinions below written are obtained after some hours analyzing carefully this Noob PAM 113 dial

 

In some days I will publish the final conclusions and the pics supporting them. When I get confirmed pics of gen modern series. This is other added problem, because Panerai has introduced some important changes in last series.

 

It is very difficult to take final conclusions, valid for the maker, without a side by side comparison. But I cannot get a gen at this moment.

It would be interesting sending a Noob dial to Goin from Taiwan, who owns a gen PAM 114. Since it is a PAM 114, we will not be able to get the subdial comparison but we will get a comparison of the overall appearance of the Noob dial. Goin takes very good pics and is an expert. I could ask him for this job, he is a nice and good friend.

 

Below my first and provisional impressions about the prototype of PAM 113 dial from Noob. Pending to be confirmed by comparison with confirmed pics of gen modern series.

 

1- FINISH AND APPEARANCE

Finish and appearance of Noob dial are very good with a nice broken white colour shiny but no in an aggressive way, leaving the prominence of shine to the nice markers which are nicely raised and very glossy.

I have not seen the H maker in person to judge

I haven’t been able to make direct side by side comparison to gen in order to get an opinion about accuracy of colour and finish.

 

2-SUBDIAL @9

Noob subdial is not at all recessed, it is clearly raised like H maker. I will show pics to prove it clearly. No doubts about that. Even sliding a nail over the dial surface you come up against the edge of the subdial.

Gen has about 28-29 concentric circles, Noob and H maker have about 21 circles

Therefore the pattern of circles is clearly finer in gen

Subdial stick markers are accurate in shape and thickness, but the rep black paint copies the circles pattern more than gen paint. Somehow gen paint cover better the groves of circles. That is helped for the finer groves in gen.

 

3-MARKERS

Little stick minute markers around the dial in reps are longer than gen and seem thinner.

Numeral markers have overall good thickness in both reps, with sharpness and definition. Markers are nicely raised with “body” and volume and nicely glossy like gen.

Some markers are better in Noob and others seems better in H maker

“12” marker is displaced laterally in both reps. To be confirmed, but it seems displaced in both reps.

“6” is seemingly wrong in the same way in both reps.

 

4- DOTS WITH LUME

This is a matter to be confirmed with correct gen pics because I have found many variations

Dot’s black contours have the same external size in gen and both reps, but the lume in reps has a bit bigger diameter and leaves less black contour to be seen.

But the most important is that rep lume is much flatter, whereas gen is almost a half sphere.

This is a flaw of both reps to be fixed and very noticeable

 

5- LUMINOR MARINA & PANERAI INSCRIPTIONS ON DIAL

Inscriptions are raised sharp and glossy like gen in both replicas

Fonts are a bit higher than gen and have some differences.

Curiously both reps have the same flaws and the inscriptions seem the same

Even PANERAI is placed a bit lower in both reps

 

6- L SWISS MADE L

It is very similar in both reps and has the same flaws.

Fonts are higher in both reps

Both reps have “A” with the upper vertex square shaped instead of almost angle shaped like in gen.

This inscription is also very similar in both replicas

 

7- GENERAL LAYOUT

General Layout is quite good with some clear displacements of markers but not very serious. Maybe 12 displacement is more serious (to be confirmed)

 

There are some flaws already confirmed and other to be studied and confirmed. But it is clear that subdial is not recessed, lume dots are flatter than gen which are almost a half sphere, L SWISS MADE L has differences and contour little stick markers are longer in reps.

 

I honestly think that Noob dial is made with the same base as H maker dial with some improvements and some worsenings. The subdial is almost the same, if not the same.

Threfore, no found improvements at this moment in Noob dial over the current H maker

 

As above said I will try to publish asap a full review, if I find correct gen pics of modern dial, showing all flaws through pics, in order to send this info to the maker.

 

Please wait

 

ALE

Edited by ALE7575

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ALE7575

I'm having some problems getting correct pics of PAM 113 gen dials for comparisons, because I have found important variations between series

 

I'm going to concentrate de search in O-series in order to fix the criteria.

 

Due to that I have had to do some corrections in previous text.

 

Any help getting good gen O-series pics would be appreciated

 

I have just found seemingly good pics from 9-maiale here:

http://www.9maiali.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1729

 

What do you think about them, because they are different to other gen pics published in this thread

I remain waiting for your opinions

 

Thanks

ALE

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mapman57

Well all in all, even without any pictures, that sounds pretty disappointing?

 

Same old issues with sub dial, lume dots, minute markers etc.

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ALE7575

Yes, at this moment it is disappointing

We will wait for more info

Anyway, Noob dial seems the same as H maker. Indeed I think it is the same base trying to improve some things but adding some worse things too

 

ALE

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ALE7575

REVIEW OF DIAL PAM 113 NOOB (Prototype Nov 2913) - Part I

 

NOTE:

THIS REVIEW IS JUST VALID FOR ANALYZING DIMENSIONS, PLACEMENTS, FINISHING, SHARPNESS, QUALITY OF CONSTRUCTION…

BUT, SINCE THERE IS NO GEN FOR SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISONS, IT WILL NOT BE VALID FOR MAKER TO GET INFO ABOUT COLOURS, TEXTURES AND REAL APPEARANCE.

 

I will make the review little by little publishing, everyday if possible, a part of the final review, in order to get the complete review in a week or ten days.

 

Where it is possible I will make comparisons with the dial of recent replicas from H maker.

 

OVERALL VIEW

 

Finish and appearance of Noob dial are very good with a nice broken white colour shiny but no in an aggressive way, leaving the prominence of shine to the nice markers which are nicely raised and very glossy.

I have not seen the H maker in person to judge

I haven’t been able to make direct side by side comparison to gen in order to get an opinion about accuracy of colour and finish.

 

Below pic shows the overall view of three dials. You can see that gen has a plus of sharpness and markers and inscriptions seems better defined and thinner in general.

 

pam113-dialgeneralcompcopiar_zpsdfd10314.jpg

 

The material seems brass judging from the colour shown in the dial back

 

pam113-diialback_zps18516244.jpg

 

In below pics you can see more detailed pics of GEN and Noob dials

 

pam113-dialperrspectivacompnoobgencopiar_zpsb8a2f274.jpg

 

And now more detailed pics of GEN, Noob and H maker. We can see the nice glossy appearance of markers and sticks.

 

pam113dilalhmakerkfinishcopiar_zps32678662.jpg

 

pam113dialgen1luzsubdialcopiar_zpsefe49fe3.jpg

 

pam113-subdilalnoobfinish2copiar_zps8c051a8a.jpg

 

pam113-noobfinish3_zpsa59b57c4.jpg

 

As you can see in the pics H maker dial has worse sharpness and definition of markers and stick contours and even you can see a worse finish in PANERAI inscription with roughness in characters surface. H maker and mainly Noob are glossy and nicely raised but Noob has more shine and almost perfect contours and well defined characters. Little stick markers and contours of Dots are the same. Even the glossy black paint is clean in Noob but H maker seems lumpy and less glossy. In this aspect of quality, finish, shine and sharpness Noob is clearly superior than H maker.

 

pam113-subdilalnoobfinishcopiar_zps6875173d.jpg

 

pam113-subdilalnoobfinish2_zps1f43c39d.jpg

 

pam113dialHmakerefectoluzrayascopiar_zps7c28e1f1.jpg

 

 

SECONDS SUBDIAL @9

This is a polemic part of the dial. Gern is clearly recessed, H maker is raised and we all were expecting a Noob recessed dial.

Unfortunately Noob dial is clearly raised as we can see in below pics. Even sliding a nail over the dial surface you come up against the edge of the subdial.

 

See a pic for comparison Gen-Noob with contrasted light conditions. Blue arrows show the direction of the light.

 

pam113-subdilalraised-recessednoobgencompcopiar_zps683a19e2.jpg

 

Below the enlarged pic of Gen subdial. Showing the concentric circles and the clearly recessed subdial surface. You can count about 28-29 circles on the subdial surface. But replica subdials either Noob or H maker have about 20 circles. Therefore, we can see that gen circles are finer than rep circles.

 

pam113dialgen1luzsubdialcopiar_zps2aace05a.jpg

Below the H maker subdial which is clearly raised. Blue arrow shows the light direction.

 

pam113-subdilalraisedHmaker1copiar_zpsf8fc74ce.jpg

 

And below the Noob subdial. This subdial is also clearly raised. Please note that central hole is of the centre respect concentric circles. Blue arrow indicates light direction

 

pam113-subdilalraised0main1copiar_zps93b377ac.jpg

 

pam113-subdilalraised0maincopiar_zps1a325528.jpg

 

pam113-subdilalraisedprincipalinicialcopiar_zpsea105c96.jpg

 

pam113-subdilalraised3copiar_zpsa550ce80.jpg

 

pam113-subdilalraised1copiar_zpsb7a56f34.jpg

The layout and dimensions of subdials are correct in both replicas. Just the big batton markers are a bit longer in reps, and little sticks are a bit bolder, mainly in H maker.

 

pam113-subdilalforntalcompcopiar_zpscb588834.jpg

 

In below pics you can see that rep black glossy paint doesn’t cover perfectly the circles pattern of subdial. Therefore black paint copies the draw of the circles more than gen.

Gen black paint has more “body” and volume and usually covers the subdial circles pattern. But this is not always because we can see many times gen markers copying the circles pattern of the gen subdial. But usually somehow gen paint hides better the groves of the circles. That is helped for the finer groves in gen subdial.

 

pam113subdialrayasgen1copiar_zps5385e2fc.jpg

 

pam113subdialrayasgen2copiar_zpsfad7f3d5.jpg

 

pam113subdialrayashmkaercopiar_zps9d15c5a7.jpg

 

pam113subdialrayasnoob1copiar_zps48490693.jpg

 

pam113subdialrayasnoob2copiar_zpsd41f6f9a.jpg

 

 

 

DOTS WITH LUME

 

Seeing the pics of gen O-series the Lume and Dots on replicas seem more accurate as previously considered.

The black circles around the Dots have very similar size and diameter of dots seem good. Contours in Noob are sharp and nicely done, very similar to the gen. H maker has worse contours.

The main issue is the shape of Dots. In gen the lume dots are a half sphere whereas the lume dots in reps are raised but much flatter as we can see in below pics.

Below pic is from a Gen old model with smaller Dots but the shape of the lume is the same

pam113-dotsgen_zps58bf7be6.jpg

 

pam113-DOT1_zps01305b9a.jpg

 

pam113-DOT2_zps6250d223.jpg

 

pam113-DOT3_zpse9c15914.jpg

 

In next Part II and followings we will analyze the general layout of dial and accuracy of fonts shape.

Please wait a little

 

Thanks for reading

ALE

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ALE7575

REVIEW OF DIAL PAM 113 NOOB (Prototype Nov 2913) - Part II

 

I’m going to analyze in this Part II of the Review the layout accuracy of Noob dial and accuracy of markers font and shape.

 

 

THE REFERENCE GEN DIAL

 

The main problem to start this review was, as previously commented, to find gen pics as a good reference. This problem got worse when I started to compare found gen pics, because there were some variations of big markers (12-6-3) positions between gen dials. The size of Lume Dots were also different. And I have even seen differences in font thickness.

 

As commented in previous post, gen big markers are placed in the same relative position between them. They seem printed with the same, or similar, “tool” or “screen”. But it seems they are printed separately from the rest of gen dial printings. For some reasons, the placement of the “screen” to print gen big markers undergoes some changes and the result is that those gen big markers have different position in the dial depending on batches.

 

It is not a question of gen Series or year of production, because I have found differences between gen watches of the same series. Somehow, the system to place the gen big markers “screen” get bigger tolerances than usually.

 

These differences between gens make more difficult to detect a rep, but regarding to find a “reference dial” is really annoying.

 

I have decided to use as reference a gen P-series dial, which had very good High definition frontal pics and nice sized and defined Lume Dots. But bear in mind that, seeing the differences in gens observed, you could find gen watches even in P-series with slightly different positions, Dots and markers thickness.

 

Selected P-series dial has also the same layout as the dial PAM 113 showed in OP catalogue. This is not a guarantee because many times OP changes the dial showed in catalogues and these dials pics are made by computer, but in this case we have found a dial which has almost the same layout as included in OP catalogue.

Anyway the selected dial is a real Panerai P-series included in several gen watches websites and is, therefore, IMO a good reference for a modern PAM 113 dial P-series as Noob should be.

 

We will see below the differences found in some watches of different gen PAM series, showing only the differences in “12” markers. As above said these placement differences are the same for “3” and “6” markers.

 

In all gen dials, minute markers around the dial, Lume Dots black circles and little numeral minute markers are always well placed and in the same position. We can realize the differences of “12” position taking minute markers, little numeral markers and Lume Dots as reference.

 

Below we will see the found differences between gens PAM 113 of several series

 

PAM 113 G-series

http://www.sgwatchmall.com/details.php?id=3521

pam113Galineacion12copiar-copia_zpseb31ebf4.jpg

“12” marker is placed under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the right side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

Lume Dots are midium size

 

 

PAM 113 I-series

http://www.europeanw....com/18082.html

pam113Ialineacion12copiar_zps961c2b75.jpg

“12” marker is placed under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the left side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

Lume Dots are midium size

 

 

PAM 113 K-series

http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=364887&rid=0

pam113K-1alineacion12copiar_zps41afcc0f.jpg

“12” marker is placed aligned with “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the right side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

Lume Dots are small size

 

 

PAM 113 K-series

http://www.papayawat...ages/pam113.JPG

pam113K-2alineacion12copiar_zpsaaa02bee.jpg

“12” marker is placed under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the left side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

Lume Dots are midium size

 

 

PAM 113 L-series

http://ltwatchgaller...i-historic.html

pam113Lalineacion12copiar_zps578acd08.jpg

“12” marker is placed almost aligned with “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the right side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

Lume Dots are midium size

 

 

PAM 113 N-series

http://www.sgwatchmall.com/details.php?id=2833

pam113Malineacion12copiar_zps5a24de0a.jpg

“12” marker is placed aligned with “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the right side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

Lume Dots are small size

 

 

PAM 113 O-series

pam113Oalineacion12copiar_zps397c0919.jpg

“12” marker is placed under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the left side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

This number “1” (of 12) is a bit slanted to the right

Lume Dots are small size

 

 

PAM 113 O-series

http://www.9maiali.com/sellingpost_pic/watches/10K025/larger/10K025_02.jpg

pam113O-2alineacion12copiar_zpsce223053.jpg

“12” marker is placed a bit under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the right side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

This number “1” (of 12) is not yet slanted

Lume Dots are the biggest size

 

See the differences in above two gen watches both from O-series

 

PAM 113 P-series

http://www.chrono24.es/panerai/luminor-marina-ref-pam-113--id2526371.htm?id=2526371&picnum=0&tab=pics

http://www.finetimepieces.com/officine_panerai/luminor_marina_pseries_PAM00113_3495_finetimepieces.htm

pam113Palineacion12copiar_zps6488fb94.jpg

“12” marker is placed under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the left side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

This number “1” (of 12) is a bit slanted to the right

Lume Dots are big size

 

 

PAM 113 Panerai Catalogue

http://www.panerai.c...marina-pam00113

pam113gencataloguecopiar_zpse754e926.jpg

“12” marker is placed under alignment of “11” & “1”

59 minute marker is placed at the left side of number “1” (of 12) alignment

This number “1” (of 12) is not yet slanted

Lume Dots are big size

 

As you can see some differences are showed in “12” maker placement and dots size in several gen dials from different series. There are even differences between watches of the same series.

These displacements are “copied” by the other big markers “3” and “6”

 

Anyway the most noticeable displacement is observed “12” marker. Below pic shows enlarged the differences in the top of the dial for both watches above studied of O-series.

pam113differencesen12-copiar_zps6f3a2f95.jpg

 

In the pic on the left the axle of the “1” touches the 59 minute marker, in the pic on the right side the axle of the “1” is clearly passing at the left of the 59 minute marker. See also the differences of Lume Dots diameter

As above commented we will take the P-series dial as gen reference for comparisons. This dial is almost the same as Panerai Catalogue dial.

 

pm113referencedialcopiar_zps1d7f23e9.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MARKERS, LUME DOTS & SUBDIAL – SHAPE, FONTS AND PLACEMENT ACCURACY

 

NOTE: Although this is a review valid for a buyer, this is not a review for buyers, this is a review to inform Noob about the differences to be corrected. In this way the way to develop the study and the statement will be a bit different as usually.

 

We will review in this part the accuracy of shape fonts and placement on dial surface of markers, lume dots and subdial.

 

I have used the pic of gen dial above commented, for Noob dial a frontal High definition pics taken by myself and for H maker a frontal pic taken from a forum.

 

I have put the three pics overlapped in three layers in a Photoshop file, to get three pics of the same size to can make comparisons.

 

Fortunately all Lume Dots are placed the same in three watches and even the external diameter of black frames of Dots are very similar. For this reason I have taken these Dots as reference in order to study the accuracy of markers placement on dial.

 

pam113dialviewgen-Noobcopiar_zps8037dc04.jpg

 

pam113dialviewgen-Hmakercopiar_zps224a5891.jpg

 

In this case I have made the comparisons using a fine outline taken from the gen to be overlapped in the rep pic. In this way we will see the differences without long explanations.

 

We will show the differences of font and shape overlapping an orange outline of the gen over the rep pic, but moving the outline to get the best coincidence with the rep shapes and fonts, leaving aside placements.

 

We will show the differences of placements of markers overlapping a green outline of the gen over the rep pic but without displacement of the outline, just getting the coincidence of the Lume Dots outline. In this way we will see the displacements of markers from the Lume Dots as a reference. It is very curious that almost all markers are bad placed on dial.

 

You will see easier all above mentioned in below pics. We will show firstly the accuracy of shape and then the placement accuracy

 

PLEASE NOTE:

ORANGE GEN OUTLINE: is displaced in all pics to get the best coincidence with the rep markers. In this way you can see just the font shape accuracy (leaving aside placement)

GREEN GEN OUTLINE: is placed in correct position making coincidence with Lume Dots as Reference (since they have accurate placement). In this way we can see just the displacement of the markers in relation to gen placement.

 

 

“12” Marker

pam113-12accuracycopiar_zpsd545e434.jpg

 

pam113-12placementcopiar_zps82cc4806.jpg

“12” marker is quite accurate in both replicas but you can see some differences with gen orange outiline. H maker “12” is a bit thicker.

Number “1” seems slanted to the left in both reps, but it is gen “1” which is slanted to the right side. This happens too in some gen O-series.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial), see red arrow. H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “12” markers are placed a bit higher and displaced to the left side.

 

 

“1” Marker pam113-1accuracycopiar_zps68585ce3.jpg

 

pam113-1placementcopiar_zps4b13586d.jpg

“1” marker is accurate in both replicas. H maker “1” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial), see red arrow. H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “1” markers are placed a bit higher and displaced to the right side, mainly in Noob.

 

 

“2” Marker

pam113-2accuracycopiar_zps34bc1b46.jpg

 

 

pam113-2placementcopiar_zpsb7ec1d32.jpg

 

“2” marker is accurate enough in both replicas but you can see some differences with gen orange outiline. H maker “2” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “2” markers are displaced to the right side, mainly in Noob. Both "2" markers are also placed a bit higher (Dots of this position are placed a bit higher too, mainly in H maker, due to that the contour is a bit displaced)

 

 

 

“3” Marker

pam113-3accuracycopiar_zps2ff31e92.jpg

 

pam113-3placementcopiar_zps7e1fca48.jpg

“3” marker is accurate enough in both replicas but you can see some differences with gen orange outiline. H maker “3” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “3” markers are a bit displaced to the right side

 

 

 

“4” Marker

pam113-4accuracycopiar_zps670d1e53.jpg

 

pam113-4placementcopiar_zps56f9e8d0.jpg

“4” marker is accurate enough in both replicas but you can see some differences with gen orange outiline. H maker “4” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “4” markers are displaced to the right side

 

 

“5” Marker

pam113-5accuracycopiar_zpseba27ce8.jpg

 

pam113-5placementcopiar_zps37658f73.jpg

“5” marker is accurate enough in H maker regarding font shape but it is a bit thicker.

Noob “5” has some differences, it is thinner in right side of big curve and upper stroke is short and thinner, see red arrows in above pic. This is a flaw very noticeable, see comparison pic without outlines. Anyway there are some gens with “5” similar to Noob.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “5” markers are displaced to the right side, and H maker "5" is placed higher than gen

 

 

“6” Marker

pam113-6accuracycopiar_zpsdf009072.jpg

 

pam113-6placementcopiar_zps8135e47b.jpg

“6” marker is less accurate as you can see in above pics of both replicas. You can see some differences with gen orange outiline, mainly in inner cirlcle that is clearly less rounded in reps. H maker “6” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “6” markers are well centered and a little bit placed lower.

Regarding L SWISS MADE L, obviously inaccurate (mainly in Noob dial), we will talk in next Part of this Review

 

 

“7” Marker

pam113-7accuracycopiar_zps648a1807.jpg

 

pam113-7placementcopiar_zps1da64588.jpg

“7” marker is very accurate in both replicas. Just H maker “4” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “7” markers are displaced to the right side, mainly Noob

 

 

“8” Marker

pam113-8accuracycopiar_zpsf8706e88.jpg

 

pam113-8placementcopiar_zpsce9f0226.jpg

“8” marker is very accurate in Noob replicas. H maker “8” is thicker and then has many differences, mainly in inner circles.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “8” markers are placed a bit higher and displaced to the right side.

 

 

“10” Marker

pam113-10accuracycopiar_zpse2593ad1.jpg

 

pam113-10placementcopiar_zps529687a0.jpg

“10” marker is slightly different “1” number is accurate in both replicas but “0” number is narrower in both replicas and looks more rounded, gen is more squared shape. H maker “10” is thicker and shows better the differences.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “10” markers are placed a bit higher but centered.

 

 

“11” Marker

pam113-11accuracycopiar_zpsc838ce4e.jpg

 

pam113-11placementcopiar_zpsc70401c4.jpg

“11” marker is very accurate in both replicas. Just H maker “11” is a bit thicker.

Minute black Noob stick markers are a bit longer in general (outwards the dial). H maker are more accurate in length but always a bit thicker.

Regarding placement both “11” markers are placed a bit higher but centered.

 

 

Subdial Placement and accuracy

pam113-subdialplacementcopiar_zpsa5890c86.jpg

Subdial @9 has accurate markers in both replicas, just the big markers in both replicas are placed a bit higher and displaced a bit to the left side. H maker markers are thicker in general.

 

 

In next Part of the review we will study the accuracy of Lume Dots, and inscriptions:

LUMINOR MARINA – PANERAI and L SWISS MADE L

 

Thanks for reading

ALE

Edited by ALE7575

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Boycie

ALE, when you write your first hardback PAM book, put me down for for the first edition. This is outstanding and thanks for all your hard work :)

 

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ALE7575

REVIEW OF DIAL PAM 113 NOOB (Prototype Nov 2013) - Part III

 

I’m going to analyze in this last Part III of the Review the Lume Dots accuracy and LUMINOR MARINA- PANERAI and L SWISS MADE L inscriptions on dial.

 

 

DOTS WITH LUME ACCURACY

 

In below pic we can see the comparsion between three Lume Dots.

Noob contour is a little bit bigger, because the black contour has a bit more of diameter.

H maker contour has almost the same diameter as gen.

Noob Lume is a bit bigger too and leaves a bit less of black contour to be seen

H maker seems more accurate

Bear in mind that Noob is a prototype, likely made with no final tools, and H maker is a finished product already in production.

 

pam113-dotsthicknesscopiar_zps62e74f32.jpg

 

Noob Lume has another problem because almost all dot markers have lume off the center, as you can see in below pic

 

pam113-dotsaccuracycopiar_zpsfd5da471.jpg

 

Black contours in Noob are sharp and nicely done, very similar to the gen. H maker has worse contours.

The main issue of Lume is the shape of Dots. In gen the lume dots are a half sphere whereas the lume dots in reps are raised but much flatter as we can see in below pics

Below pic is from a Gen old model with smaller Dots, but the shape of the lume is the same

 

pam113-dotsgen_zps58bf7be6.jpg

 

pam113-DOT1_zps01305b9a.jpg

 

pam113-DOT2_zps6250d223.jpg

 

pam113-DOT3_zpse9c15914.jpg

 

 

 

 

LUMINOR MARINA INSCRIPTION ON DIAL

 

We will study only Noob because the inscriptions of H maker are the same as Noob, most likely because Noob has copied the H maker inscription in this prototype

 

PLACEMENT

Firstly, we will analyze the placement of the inscription.

 

pam113-LPplacementaccuracy-NOOB-gencopiar_zpsb6b70a78.jpg

 

As you can see in above pic the top of MARINA inscription is aligned with the base of “2” and “10” markers either in gen or in Noob rep.

This is a correct vertical placement of the rep inscription in relation to markers. But we have already seen in Part II that “2” and “10” markers are placed a bit higher, therefore Noob PANERAI MARINA inscription is placed a bit higher than gen LM inscription

Regarding horizontal placement, as you can see in above pic, the Noob inscription is placed a bit towards right side, because the rep “I” of LUMINOR is centered on the dial whereas gen “I” is placed at the left side of the center.

 

FONTS ACCURACY

We will study now the font accuracy. See below general pic

 

pam113-LPaccuracycopiar_zps3898ddd9.jpg

 

Seemingly rep inscription is not bad, it seems a bit thinner and more sharp, but almost all this effect is due to rep pic is more focused and with better definition as gen pic.

Anyway rep inscription is actually a bit thinner but is very good regarding sharpness.

 

In below pic we can see already some differences

 

pam113-LPaccuracy-compviewcopiar_zps06b0ddee.jpg

 

The bottom part of “U” is rounded in rep, gen has more square edges. See red arrows.

The top part of “R” is more rounded and protruded in gen, in rep is flatter an a bit more “recessed”. See red arrows

 

LUMINOR inscription is well placed in general, but “I”, which is centered in gen between “M” and “N”, is in Noob displaced a bit to the right side. See in the pic the off the center position.

 

MARINA start in Noob a bit displaced to the right side. See, in relation with the orange line, how “M” of MARINA is displaced to the right side.

Following vertical orange lines, the same occurs with first “A”, and mainly with “R”, “I” and “N” (really displaced). However, last “A” is almost well placed.

 

In below pic are showed more clearly the differences, overlapping the BLUE Noob Contour over the gen inscription

 

pam113-LPaccuracy-compcompletecopiar_zpsd20bbe35.jpg

 

Arrow 1- see more rounded bottom part of Noob “U”

Arrow 2- see Noob “I” displaced to the right side

Arrow 3- see the top part of “R” is more rounded and protruded in gen, in rep is flatter an a bit more “recessed”

Arrow 4- see Noob “M“ and “A” of MARINA displaced to the right side

Arrow 5- see Noob “R”, “I” and “N” really displaced to the right side

 

 

 

PANERAI INSCRIPTION ON DIAL

 

PLACEMENT

Firstly, we will analyze the placement of the inscription.

 

pam113-PANplacementaccuracy-NOOB-gencopiar_zpsddc3984b.jpg

 

As we can see in above pic the placement of starting “P” of PANERAI inscription is very good (either in vertical or in horizontal)

 

FONTS ACCURACY

We will study now the font accuracy. See below general pic

 

pam113PANERAIcompviewcopiar_zps473abcd7.jpg

Seemingly rep inscription is not bad, it seems a bit thinner and more sharp, but almost all this effect is due to rep pic is more focused and with better definition as gen pic. Anyway rep inscription is actually a bit thinner but is very good regarding sharpness.

However, as we can see in above pic there are some differences:

Arrow 1- The top part of “P” is longer and narrower in rep. Making this Noob “P” a bit different to gen “P”

Arrow 2- As it happened in LUMINOR, the top part of “R” is more rounded and protruded in gen, in rep is flatter an a bit more “recessed”

 

Noob PANERAI inscription is longer than gen one. This is due to the Noob characters are more detached between them. The result is a longer total Noob inscription, as you can see in the last orange vertical reference line.

 

In below pic are showed more clearly the differences, overlapping the BLUE Noob Contour over the gen inscription

 

pam113PANERAIcomptotalcopiar_zps532635f0.jpg

 

You can see how the characters of Noob inscription are more detached, and, therefore, the final length is bigger in Noob inscription

We can see also, marked by red arrow, the differences in the top part of the “P”

 

 

 

 

L SWISS MADE L INSCRIPTION ON DIAL

 

This inscription, leaving aside the raised subdial, is the more evidente flaw of Noob dial, because this inscription is really different from gen.

 

Below pic shows clearly the differences without lines of reference.

 

pam113LSWISSMADEL-NOOB-gen_zps6d1dce17.jpg

 

To see more clearly the flaws of Noob LSML inscription we will overlap the BLUE Noob contour over the gen LSML inscription. See below pic:

 

pam113LSWISSMADEL-NOOB-gen-CONTOUR_zpsb3a050fb.jpg

 

We can see the evident differences: Noob has different fonts, Noob fonts are different mainly “A” which has more square upper apex, Noob LSML is placed lower in relation with gen, little stick markers over inscription are longer in Noob.

 

To see more clearly the differences I have enlarged each side of the inscription in below pics:

 

pam113LSWISS-NOOB-gen-CONTOUR_zps692e6d56.jpg

 

pam113MADEL-NOOB-gen-CONTOUR_zps5885938c.jpg

 

As you can see Noob should correct fonts shape, font size and placement and making shorter the little stick markers over the inscription.

 

 

 

 

L SWISS MADE L INSCRIPTION ON DIAL

 

This inscription, leaving aside the raised subdial, is the more evidente flaw of Noob dial, because this inscription is really different from gen.

 

Below pic shows clearly the differences without lines of reference.

 

pam113LSWISSMADEL-NOOB-gen_zps6d1dce17.jpg

 

To see more clearly the flaws of Noob LSML inscription we will overlap the BLUE Noob contour over the gen LSML inscription. See below pic:

 

pam113LSWISSMADEL-NOOB-gen-CONTOUR_zpsb3a050fb.jpg

 

We can see the evident differences: Noob has different fonts, Noob fonts are different mainly “A” which has more square upper apex, Noob LSML is placed lower in relation with gen, little stick markers over inscription are longer in Noob.

 

To see more clearly the differences I have enlarged each side of the inscription in below pics:

 

pam113LSWISS-NOOB-gen-CONTOUR_zps692e6d56.jpg

 

pam113MADEL-NOOB-gen-CONTOUR_zps5885938c.jpg

 

As you can see Noob should correct fonts shape, font size and placement and making shorter the little stick markers over the inscription.

 

 

 

 

CONCLUSIONS

 

In my opinion the most important, and more difficult, of this dial PAM113 is getting correct raised (with “body”), glossy and clean Black markers and a correct recessed subdial.

 

Regarding markers quality Noob has achieved almost perfect and very gen-like appearance, its markers are perfect in “body”, definition, sharpness and very glossy. They are very clean and almost identical to gen. Only big markers on Subdial @9 are worse than gen with less body and copying the concentric lines of subdial (gen sometimes are the same but a little less marked).

 

H maker markers in comparison have also “body” enough, but sharpness and definition of contours are way worse in general and black paint is really lumpy and matt in comparison with the clean and nice “glossy liquid” appearance of gen and Noob

 

Lume dots are better in H maker, although they are also flat instead of half spheres like gen. But we should consider in this case that Noob is just a prototype not a final product.

 

LUMINOR MARINA – PANEARAI inscriptions are, regarding accuracy of fonts and placement, almost the same in both replicas, but Noob are sharper, more defined and always clean and glossy, whereas H maker is also very lumpy and matt, just the same as markers.

 

L SWISS MADE L inscription is clearly better in H maker, because Noob is bad placed, has wrong and bigger fonts. LSML inscription is to be corrected by Noob

 

Markers fonts and placements are similar with little advantage for H maker, but almost the same in general.

 

Seconds subdial @9 are wrongly raised in both replicas and almost the same in appearance. To be corrected

 

To summarize conclusions, Noob has reached a very nice appearance and quality of glossy markers, in my opinion almost the same as gen and this is very important for the success of this dial.

Noob should make some corretions as follows

- Correcting subdial @9 to recessed.

- Correcting placements and fonts of markers as indicated in the review

- Making shorter the minute stick markers around the dial

- Making lume dots like half spheres and centered in black contour

- Correcting LSML inscription

- Making some corrections of fonts and placement in LUMINOR MARINA- PANERAI inscriptions following indications in the review.

With above corrections and the current quality of markers Noob will get an almost perfect dial.

 

 

 

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS

 

As commented at the beginning:

 

NOTE: Although this is a review valid for a buyer, this is not a review for buyers, this is a review to inform Noob and Toro about the differences to be corrected. Therefore the way to develop the study and the statement have been a little different as usually.

 

THIS REVIEW IS JUST VALID TO ANALIZE DIMENSIONS, PLACEMENTS, FINISHING, SHARPNESS, QUALITY OF CONSTRUCTION…

BUT, SINCE THERE IS NO GEN FOR SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISONS, IT WILL NOT BE VALID FOR MAKER TO GET INFO ABOUT COLOURS, DIAL SURFACE TEXTURE AND REAL APPEARANCE.

It will be very important to determine the final colour of the LUME

 

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

I hope this review is valid for Noob and Toro in order to get info to make a better dial for PAM 113 and 114

 

 

Thanks for reading.

ALE

Edited by ALE7575

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torobravo

Thanks for the great input, I am always very excited to see these informative reviews and it takes me an hour to check the thread, I just can imagine how much time can cost you to make this happen, we appreciate your effort :D

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George.

Not enough detail for me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:giggle:

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JasperB

I Think there are some Universities that would accept this as a PhD thesis!

 

Huge effort - Thanks a lot.

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stormtooper4

Outstanding post , I am gobsmacked at the effort you've put in , seriously Big Thanks

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CurioLeo

You guys know how some military / IT organisations employ strategists / hackers so that those people don't end up working for the "opposition", well, I think Panerai should employ ALE as their QA supremo because I seriously don't think anybody outside of Panerai knows more about their watches ! This is ridiculously detailed but then again, that is why we love it ! ALE needs to write a book titled the "PAM Bible - an outsider's biography".

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torobravo

I would buy the PAM Bible :D

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ALE7575

Thanks friends

LOL

 

ALE

 

BTW: a lot of people call PAM Bible the PAM Reference GUIDE

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/reference-pam-review-107365.html?t=107365

 

 

 

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