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RussP

Not entirely sure if this is a scam...........

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simonbolivar

 

Fine print says it is a converted pocket watch, and dial was relumed so seems to be a franken of sorts. Interesting, but not my cup of tea.

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RussP

I like your Avatar, Simon.................. ^_^

 

The watch ain't my cuppa tea either.

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narikaa

But I've never heard of or seen a Rolex of this type:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...GoAAOSwnONZChXi

 

 

 

Its the seldom seen 'PROOF' Rolex model

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proof that at one time a Panerai fucked a Rolex

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

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Jude

@narikaa : good one! had a good laugh :D thought Rolex did a good job for Panerai there with the California dial. Still think the Panerai with that dial is one of the most unique look; having the Roman and Arabic numerals tight.

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trailboss99

And people buy that shit . . .

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Diver Dave

Just saw this and had some thoughts. 

Converting pocket watches to wrist worn watches was not uncommon during and immediately after WW-I.

Students of the history of the wristwatch should understand that a wrist worn watch was considered effete prior to WW-I. To be frank, if a man wore a watch on his wrist pre-war, his sexuality was going to be called into question. Pocket watches were the only watch any proper man would possess. 

This ended during WW-I. For the first time modern warfare required every officer, at least, to possess an accurate watch for coordinating planned activities, and it was found that a wrist worn watch was far easier to use in the trenches than a pocket watch.  Many watches were converted to wrist-wear, many pocket watches were worn in strap-equipped leather holders worn on the wrist, and many "trench watches" were made new, using pocket watch movements placed into purpose designed cases. Wrist worn watches were universal, and post-war the old prejudices were a thing of the past. 

So, just to say that a well-converted pocket watch isn't a "fake", and isn't all that unusual. 

"When" the conversion was done might be the only bit needing sorting out. I can well imagine wanting to discriminate between one converted in 1927 in England from one converted in 2017 in Ukraine. 

The common method used, and this is what was done here, is to rotate the dial 90 degrees to place the stem at the 3:00 position, and to re-mark the dial. Many of the conversion dials are unmarked, and you need to look at the case and movement to see what is what. Cases are also often third-party, as was common in the pocket watch trade. 

My "guess" is that this watch is a fairly recent build, or at least a recent re-build, from a Rolex pocket watch. It's not "exactly" a fake, as the possibilities are a bit more complex in the grand scheme of history. 

 

 

 

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Diver Dave
1 hour ago, trailboss99 said:

And people buy that shit . . .

 

Yes, they do. After doing some research on Trench Watches, they find some *really* interesting vintage watches with great movements in them, for reasonable prices. Watches that until recently were far too big to be worn, but that now fit into the large-watch "thing". Because many were uniquely converted in the 1920's, they are a bit hard to nail down and catalog. But they are accessible, interesting, wearable, and have serious appreciation potential. It's why I have been stashing them away quietly for years. 

These are just a random sample from eBay today. I didn't detail-analyse each one, but they are worth studying:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-ROLEX-Unicorn-Engraved-WW1-Trench-Watch-J-Heath-Broadhead-/172589732992?hash=item282f265480:g:u4EAAOSw4CFY033R

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Rolex-Officers-Military-Trench-Hooded-Sterling-Silver-Wrist-Watch-Rare-/222626908374?hash=item33d59908d6:g:wakAAOSwuxFYtwIx

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Officer-WW1-Military-Trench-Watch-925-Sterling-Silver-33-5mm-Antique-1920-/352149819331?hash=item51fdc3cfc3:g:XR0AAOSwcgNZBjxt

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-1920s-Vintage-9k-375-Pocket-Watch-Conversion-Trench-Watch-Estate-Find-/192294121800?hash=item2cc59f7148:g:HxsAAOSwDQJZqDVm

 

Etc Etc...

Look for Dennison cases, Willsdorf & Davis marks, etc...

 

This is real collecting. It's a far cry from waltzing into your AD with your cash and buying the latest green monstrosity from Rolex. 

Hint: To gain financial appreciation from collectible items, buy what others are ridiculing, and then wait.....

 

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narikaa

There's a prolific seller on eBay 'wandolec' of these regenerated pocket watches

The fact that there's some attribute to the 'big name' in the donor gives (it seems) free reign to go artistically wild with the re-creation

 

Though this seller has been at it a good while and churned quite vast sales he does in fairness apply a lot of skill n effort.

 

But it's worth bearing in mind that pocket watches were meant to live their lives in waistcoat pockets and may not stand up well to the rigours of wrist wearing.

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Diver Dave
8 hours ago, narikaa said:

There's a prolific seller on eBay 'wandolec' of these regenerated pocket watches

The fact that there's some attribute to the 'big name' in the donor gives (it seems) free reign to go artistically wild with the re-creation

 

Though this seller has been at it a good while and churned quite vast sales he does in fairness apply a lot of skill n effort.

 

But it's worth bearing in mind that pocket watches were meant to live their lives in waistcoat pockets and may not stand up well to the rigours of wrist wearing.

 

This goes to what I wrote above ^^ which is that one needs to consider the date of modification when contemplating "authenticity" of these. 

I need to go have a poke at researching the movement in the old Rolex pocket watches. Noting that a certain company named Panerai contracted Rolex to manufacture the first series of their watches using a different pocket watch movement, I wonder if it's because of lack of shock protection in their earlier movement, or just supply availability. Know anything about the Rolex marked pocket watch movements? In house (doubtful) or ebauch from ?? (Angelus?)

 

Hmm.... Project... Vintage style Panerai case with a Rolex pocket watch movement.... Hmm.....

 

 

 

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trailboss99
21 hours ago, Diver Dave said:

 

Yes, they do. After doing some research on Trench Watches, they find some *really* interesting vintage watches with great movements in them, for reasonable prices. Watches that until recently were far too big to be worn, but that now fit into the large-watch "thing". Because many were uniquely converted in the 1920's, they are a bit hard to nail down and catalog. But they are accessible, interesting, wearable, and have serious appreciation potential. It's why I have been stashing them away quietly for years. 

These are just a random sample from eBay today. I didn't detail-analyse each one, but they are worth studying:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-ROLEX-Unicorn-Engraved-WW1-Trench-Watch-J-Heath-Broadhead-/172589732992?hash=item282f265480:g:u4EAAOSw4CFY033R

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Rolex-Officers-Military-Trench-Hooded-Sterling-Silver-Wrist-Watch-Rare-/222626908374?hash=item33d59908d6:g:wakAAOSwuxFYtwIx

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Officer-WW1-Military-Trench-Watch-925-Sterling-Silver-33-5mm-Antique-1920-/352149819331?hash=item51fdc3cfc3:g:XR0AAOSwcgNZBjxt

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-1920s-Vintage-9k-375-Pocket-Watch-Conversion-Trench-Watch-Estate-Find-/192294121800?hash=item2cc59f7148:g:HxsAAOSwDQJZqDVm

 

Etc Etc...

Look for Dennison cases, Willsdorf & Davis marks, etc...

 

This is real collecting. It's a far cry from waltzing into your AD with your cash and buying the latest green monstrosity from Rolex. 

Hint: To gain financial appreciation from collectible items, buy what others are ridiculing, and then wait.....

 

Yup and I don't have a problem with those early conversions. The problem is a lot of the ones on da bay were converted  early last week not early last century.

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Kleen™

Dude; it's just (another!) effed up Rolex...leave it to Rolex to fuck up their watches straight from their production line...they've proven themselves to be quite capable of that without the need for any external help...:B):

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Diver Dave
31 minutes ago, trailboss99 said:

Yup and I don't have a problem with those early conversions. The problem is a lot of the ones on da bay were converted  early last week not early last century.

 

Yup, as I wrote: The problem is trying to figure out when they were done (if  it's for collecting early examples).

For daily wear, "who cares?". And with larger watches being in fashion, they do make really interesting dress watches these days. 

And I guess if you can't tell if it's a newer conversion or an older one, it's irrelevant. 

In any event, there are some nice pieces out there. If you have $1000 burning a hole in your pocket, buying one versus buying a Chinese rep or three is a no-brainer. You *are* going to lose buying Chinese reps. You'll at least break even with any of the conversions, and if I read things right you might make a few bucks in the end. And have a nice watch in the meanwhile. 

 

Want to play the watch investment game? Study, Study, and Study.... and buy before others realize that they ought to also.  

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