Authenticity Help Needed

[paulvillo 364]

I've been reading a handful of threads here and on brother forums trying to find out if this 2836-2 is really SWISS and of what quality, only to find out I'm still not knowledgeable enough to make a statement and, well, convince myself

 

Didn't find any references to the V8 ZT39 markings and the ETA stamp looks different from the ones I've seen around.

Shock spring also looks different - again - to my untrained eyes.

Also can't judge the rotor engravings, possibly because I'm comparing with some old pics from older threads.

 

Would be truly grateful if any of our eagle-eyed experts could chime in and share opinions.

 

Thanks in advance, to the pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wriggles 12]

Swinese. Most likely bit of both. Novodiac is generally indication of Asian

[paulvillo 364]

Seriously..!? Oh my @Wriggles

Man I had my fingers crossed for this one.

Just to clarify, do you see just a "suspect" novodiac or are there more tells than my untrained eyes can't see?

And damn, this came from a "trusted" dealer/ modder…

Edited April 3, 2017 by paulvillo

[jdog 1]

Seriously..!? Oh my @Wriggles

Man I had my fingers crossed for this one.

Just to clarify, do you see just a "suspect" novodiac or are there more tells than my untrained eyes can't see?

And damn, this came from a "trusted" dealer/ modder…

Cant necessarily blame them, especially as the trust the makers a fair amount. Unless buying something NOS online and a few certain other places, I wouldn't trust a rep to have a true swiss mvmnt nowadays. Maybe a swiss mainplate and few other bits mixed. Just not worth the extra $100 for what is almost certainly 100% swiss. Better off saving the $ and upgrading the watch another way or leaving as is.

[paulvillo 364]

@jdog thanks for the inputs mate, but this was a project that started on brother forum.

The donor watch was allegedly provided by BK, and was offered with the option of either an SW200 or ETA 2836-2

I chose the Sellita but turned "out of stock" so I had to swallow the extra cost of the ETA.

So no, this it didn't come from China per se ;)

[jdog 1]

@jdog thanks for the inputs mate, but this was a project that started on brother forum.

The donor watch was allegedly provided by BK, and was offered with the option of either an SW200 or ETA 2836-2

I chose the Sellita but turned "out of stock" so I had to swallow the extra cost of the ETA.

So no, this it didn't come from China per se ;)

Gotcha, Either way you unfortunately got a movement not 100% swiss for sure. If you bought second hand, Im not sure you could go after the seller. If you bought from BK, you have a grievance for sure.

[paulvillo 364]

@jdog thanks for the inputs mate, but this was a project that started on brother forum.

The donor watch was allegedly provided by BK, and was offered with the option of either an SW200 or ETA 2836-2

I chose the Sellita but turned "out of stock" so I had to swallow the extra cost of the ETA.

So no, this it didn't come from China per se ;)

Gotcha, Either way you unfortunately got a movement not 100% swiss for sure. If you bought second hand, Im not sure you could go after the seller. If you bought from BK, you have a grievance for sure.

 

Unfortunately got it first hand.

That was the quite (in)famous HS01 project that (I hope) dug PBDAD's grave not only over RG but all of the rep community.

According to the moderators, BK was indeed sourcing the donors for him.

But that's another story, for maybe another thread.

Cheers!

[GenTLe 1,490]

The ETA novodiac is done this way with 3 cut-outs:

 

The Chinese one is done this way (one cut-out):

 

I can't get how yours is done.

[paulvillo 364]

Thanks @GenTLe , much appreciated!

Judging from your pics, seems like an ETA novodiac then.

Unfortunately I took the pics with the digital 'magnifier' on my phone, so this is the best I've got without loupes.

 

 

 

 

I can and will definitely crack it open again to re-check and take more pics.

If there's anything else you'd want to see, just let me know.

Thanks a million mate!

 

 

 

The ETA novodiac is done this way with 3 cut-outs:

 

 

The Chinese one is done this way (one cut-out):

 

I can't get how yours is done.

[GenTLe 1,490]

By the way, that's not the "COSC" version.

The high level ETA has this shock absorber, named "Incabloc" (yours is a Novodiac one):

 

These movement (gen ETA) are divided into:

- Standard - (with Novodiac/Etachocs with ESTABLE without Decoration)

- Elaboree (inc. Incabloc, ESTASBLE and Basic Decoration)

- Top ("elaboree", Incabloc, COSC, with top regulation)

 

So, a base ETA is, quality wise, like a normal Seagull Chinese ETA clone. And often the Chinese ones, being new, works even better.

[paulvillo 364]

By the way, that's not the "COSC" version.

The high level ETA has this shock absorber, named "Incabloc" (yours is a Novodiac one)

 

These movement (gen ETA) are divided into:

- Standard - (with Novodiac/Etachocs with ESTABLE without Decoration)

- Elaboree (inc. Incabloc, ESTASBLE and Basic Decoration)

- Top ("elaboree", Incabloc, COSC, with top regulation)

 

So, a base ETA is, quality wise, like a normal Seagull Chinese ETA clone. And often the Chinese ones, being new, works even better.

 

I see. Thanks for clarifying @GenTLe.

At least it's an ETA, not a swinese or a hybrid... am I right?

 

Now it would be interesting to know what's the 'default' ETAs inside all BK subs out there.

(For me at least it would ;) )

[GenTLe 1,490]

At least it's an ETA, not a swinese or a hybrid... am I right?

 

You never really know. If it's a BK then it is a full ETA, but if it comes elsewhere it may be a gen balance and plate but you will never know if the gears, main spring etc are gen or not.

[paulvillo 364]

At least it's an ETA, not a swinese or a hybrid... am I right?

 

You never really know. If it's a BK then it is a full ETA, but if it comes elsewhere it may be a gen balance and plate but you will never know if the gears, main spring etc are gen or not.

 

Well, @GenTLe mate according to RG mods, the donor was indeed provided by BK.

What happened in the hands of the modder, well, it's yet to know....

Here's a few (hopefully) better pics taken under a 4x loupe and my phone... tried my best to capture the gears and the novodiac :)

Thanks!

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by paulvillo

[black263 228]

Out of interest, how does BK get Gen ETA in his watches, when the factories can't source them. I've noticed that he says the watch is Swiss ETA, but his listed mods don't include a movement swap. Surely, he isn't simply buying in a Chinese factory "Swiss ETA" watch.

[GenTLe 1,490]

Out of interest, how does BK get Gen ETA in his watches, when the factories can't source them. I've noticed that he says the watch is Swiss ETA, but his listed mods don't include a movement swap. Surely, he isn't simply buying in a Chinese factory "Swiss ETA" watch.

 

I remember Toro once said that Noob factory indeed has still many new ETA in stock, and if I remember right, BK once said that he gets the ETA version of the Noob sub.

[black263 228]

I've always gone with Greg's post " There are NO new ETA movements in reps any more - only refurbished (usually with Asian parts)." As a result, I've never gone for the Swiss route. If Noob has a source of new, Gen Swiss ETA movements, this could be a game changer for me.

[paulvillo 364]

Out of interest, how does BK get Gen ETA in his watches, when the factories can't source them. I've noticed that he says the watch is Swiss ETA, but his listed mods don't include a movement swap. Surely, he isn't simply buying in a Chinese factory "Swiss ETA" watch.

 

I remember Toro once said that Noob factory indeed has still many new ETA in stock, and if I remember right, BK once said that he gets the ETA version of the Noob sub.

 

Precisely mate.

BK himself posted here in 2010:

noobfactory phasing out Swiss ETA

 

And I quote "

The noobfactory is phasing out Swiss ETA because Swiss ETA supply is finally coming to an end. We all heard Swatch's announcement of stopping supply of ETAs to outside of the Swatch group about 3 years ago. Yes, the end is finally here. The noobfactory is replacing the Swiss ETA with Swiss Sellita for its Swiss movement offerings. There's no change to the prices of the offerings.

 

Sellita is a smaller movement company in Switzerland. It has been cloning some ETA movements for a number of years. Quality is arguably near or equivalent to ETA's. I feel comfortable carrying it.

 

I'll be getting a mix of Swiss ETAs and Swiss Sellitas in the noobfactory watches for the time being. Soon it'll be all Swiss Sellitas.

 

Regards

bk

 

Don't know what happened since '10 but this project was sold as BK based Noob's 114060.

Sellitas were $100 cheaper but became unavailable.

 

After all the info gathered in this thread I managed to find and compare recent images/ videos on the web to compare with my visible gear teeth, screws and rotor macros.

Well, convinced myself it's the lower grade, standard, non-COSC 2836-2.

 

After 5 minutes, a Kello test with the dial up gave me -6.4s/day..

Not exactly within COSC's -4/+6 range but easily reachable I'd say.

 

[paulvillo 364]

I've always gone with Greg's post " There are NO new ETA movements in reps any more - only refurbished (usually with Asian parts)." As a result, I've never gone for the Swiss route. If Noob has a source of new, Gen Swiss ETA movements, this could be a game changer for me.

 

There were no options but swiss in this project mate, but after quite some researching, I did "find out" that what makes one version of a caliber better than another isn't just the parts used within the ebauche, but mainly the time taken to make sure all the parts work as they should ;)

So definitely a serviced TC or any other cheaper chinese movements are my go-to now.

Just for curiosity's sake, in

video you'll notice the watch smith's sudden amusement when the Chinese TC beats the ETA, out of the box! :)

Cheers

Edited April 7, 2017 by paulvillo