PolonusTM 0 Posted July 19, 2016 It was a surprise, out of nowhere the watch could be seen on watchbus.net and, several days later - in our dealers’ offerings. We need to remember that it was KW last time, who was first with carbotech replica of PAM 616 so definitely they have more experience now. The genuine Panerai Luminor Marina 1950 Carbotech 3 Days Automatic PAM661 Watch: First reviews were available on the new around middle of May this year (2016). This new Carbotech watch was a mixture of Laminor 1950 Marina case with dial details taken from Panerai Submersibles with blue accent on the top. And there is „new” Panerai P.9010 automatic movement - slimmer version of older P.9000. The get case is measured as 44 mm and it’s thickness remains undefined since I wasn’t able to find any online source of information on what is exact thickness of gen PAM 661. It was easy for other P.9010 based watches but no page exactly pointed at thickness of 661… REP: Panerai’s previous Carbotech watch Sub 616 was using case carved from regular block of carbon fiber material glued with Ketron's PEEK (which is based on polyetheretherketone resin) with only exception of bezel which was made using special, custom pattern of carbon fibers in PEEK to provide that multi-shaded look and making it virtually impossible to replicate well. This time, in case of PAM 661, all elements of case including bezel - are being cut from regular CF PEEK block which allows KW to replicate in FLAWLESS way, down to these semi-circular pattern on bezel! First impression: the overall quality of this watch (rep) is outstanding! Period. Very high quality sapphire with good AR (double sided (!), quite strong), great execution of CF PEEK case, almost perfect to gen dial, more than acceptable strap… this is „pearl in collection” and KW knows how to do watches. The watch is light in weight and seems to be thinner than other automatic 1950 watches - probably both it’s weight and less thick case give such strong impression. Since gen is using slimmed down movement P.9010 and KW went with decorated 7750 - we all were wondering what will be outcome from it in field of total thickness. While the thickness of gen 661 remains unknown for me I can now measure KW rep using caliper. The total case thickness measured on top of sapphire’s dome is 17.24mm. Skipping the sapphire, from the top of bezel to the caseback is it approx. 15mm thick. The watch seems to be slimmer down comparing with previous 1950 automatic cases; changed shape of lugs helps this impression greatly. Movement: regular 7750 without chrono module with additional decoration plates to mimic P.9010 look. The look is easier to replicated due to the same position of balance wheel vs crown on both 7750 and P.9010. Nice… Round dots on dial was not only thing this watch borrowed from Submersibles - the movement is „floating” in case, much like in PAM 305 - it is hold strongly in place only when the caseback is mounted since it puts the needed pressure against movement holder. So, no tabs to hold the movement, only caseback pressure and some O-ring shaped rubber seal to hold it barely in place. FINAL CONCLUSIONS: - the thickness - probably bigger than gen but I cannot compare, since there is no info about genuine thickness. KW claims to have then gen in his possession and promised rep vs gen photos but „the gen case is still in factory” etc.. Anyway, the rep, when you get it in hand or put it on - seems to be slimmed down nice way. And all this without being so „toy/plastick” as it was the case with PAM 616… - the rest of replication seems on par with available get photos. Really. Only visible difference from „the top view” is that on the rep hour indexes are tiny fraction of mm closer to the inner wall of bezel than on gen photos, probably due to a bit different placement of seconds hand nad date window. - the execution as a watch and quality of details - BREATHTAKING! I am serious. It was long time ago I was amazed by any watch this much. - the watch is a keeper - I knew it from the moment I unwrapped it. OTHER OBSERVATIONS: - surprisingly, the AR is double sided. I am not sure it is on par with gen (Panerai, so far, supported single sided, internal AR) - probably not, but out of the box effect was quite dramatic. I found double sided AR hard way when measuring case thickness using metal caliper - I’ve scratched outer AR so badly I had to remove it. All photos are taken already without outer AR then… - these decorative plates make watch regulation even a bit harder than with previous „P.9000” decoration… but doable PHOTOS (no photo correction applied): FC patterns are crazy cool: Quite low case profile: Some closeups: Other details: On the wrist: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasat 0 Posted July 19, 2016 Hi Polonus My friend this is a great review. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Hasat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kennycoder 97 Posted July 19, 2016 Thank you very much for this info. Very informative. I'm ordering one myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chavezzito 121 Posted July 19, 2016 Fuck me it is gorgeous! Thank you very much for this info. Very informative. I'm ordering one myself. Send me a message a week after you had it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kennycoder 97 Posted July 19, 2016 Fuck me it is gorgeous! Thank you very much for this info. Very informative. I'm ordering one myself. Send me a message a week after you had it I guess it might be a keeper. Just like the IWC :P So fawk off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chavezzito 121 Posted July 19, 2016 Fuck me it is gorgeous! Thank you very much for this info. Very informative. I'm ordering one myself. Send me a message a week after you had it I guess it might be a keeper. Just like the IWC :P So fawk off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALE7575 24 Posted July 26, 2016 Few things too add after the magnificent Polonus review Just to give my opinion about this rep, always following the info and the pics from Polonus CARBOTECH MATERIAL Maybe the rep Carbotech is not exactly the same as gen, but the appearance, touch and weight are accurate enough. Perhaps the rep material is a bit less smooth than gen in some zones Rep Carbotech pattern is not at all exactly the same as gen, but there is not a fixed standard about this matter and all the watches are completely different. Besides the pattern and Zebra effect of PAM 661 is much less marked than in PAM 616. All that helps regarding accuracy and we can say that the rep is accurate enough. Maker has made a very good job in this regard. CASE, BEZEL & CASEBACK Overall shape is accurate, bezel is accurate, lugs are a bit fatter than gen (few noticeable) and cushion shape looks as gen. Due to the bigger thickness of the rep movement, the main difference, as showed by Polonus, is the total thickness that is 17,24mm instead of 15,65mm. Those 1,59mm are few noticeable without side by side comparison in the hand. Maker has wisely distributed this difference between the mid-case and the caseback. Bezel seemingly is not affected and remains accurate in shape. The complex shape of the mid-case dissimulates a lot the difference, being the caseback the most affected part by the thickness difference. Fortunately the caseback remains almost hidden wearing the watch in the wrist,. Anyway, this smaller thickness is the “spirit” of these new Luminor 1950 watches and it is an important feature of them. We should see this difference as a flaw to be considered, despite it is not very noticeable in practice. Rep Caseback is made of SS DLC coated instead of Titanium like gen. This is a flaw which affects the accuracy and the weight. I don’t understand why the maker has done that, because it has carefully worked with a lot of aspects of this nice rep and a Titanium caseback is not very expensive or difficult to be made. Caseback engravings are not at all perfect regarding layout and fonts, but are nicely made, are accurate enough and at real size look good. The rep has no production number on caseback. Another flaw to be considered CROWN GUARD and CROWN Very nice job of the maker regarding these parts. Crown, CG body, CG lever, CG pin, REG. T.M. engravings are accurate and very nicely made. The chamfered of the CG corners are awesome as showed in Polonus pics. DIAL Dial Layout looks really good with few noticeable differences in practice Numeral markers are accurate in font and even in lume application with clean sausage shape and a little flat contour as the gen. Very good job from the maker Dot markers are accurate regarding size and overall shape. Just the inner lume part is flat and matt in rep whereas gen has a bit semi-matt lume material and the shape is clearly convex. The golden contour is accurate and nice. Dial inscriptions are very good and with accurate fonts, colour and application. Seconds sub-dial is recessed like gen and with accurate markers shape and application. The little seconds hand is accurate in shape and colour. Dial surface is black and with the same texture as gen Date window is accurate in placement and size, but Date wheel fonts are clearly thicker than gen HANDS and CANNON PINION Hands, as always, are not as sharp and well defined as gen, but have accurate shape and length with accurate lume application. The center of the rep hands is not as flat as gen ones. CP has accurate size and looks nice and polished, but it has more rounded contour and is less flush than gen. At real size looks good enough. CRYSTAL Rep has a good sapphire crystal with a bit wider bevelled than gen and double AR, as commented by Polonus, whereas gen has single AR coating. If you are careful with the external AR coating this AR layer could be welcome to get clearer the dial. Anyway this is inaccurate, but you always can remove the external AR layer. LUME COLOURS Lume colours are quite accurate. Maybe in gen numeral markers and dots are more uniform and have the same colour. In the rep numerals are a bit darker and more orange, but overall accuracy is good and the rep looks OK. MOVEMENT This rep is fitted with a new A7750 movement decorated like P.9010. We can call this movement KP9010. Gen P.9010 has the balance wheel @11. This is an advantage for the reps, because they can use the A7750 movement appropriately decorated and the balance wheel position will remain accurate. P.9000 has the balance wheel @7 and this is always a nightmare for decorated movements a7750 based. The main problem is the thickness, P.9010 is designed to fit the new series of Luminor 1950 which is based in making a thinner watch, more wearable and comfortable. In this way P.9010 is 6mm thick, it is clearly thinner than P.9000 which is 7,9mm thick and, obviously, than A7750. Leaving aside the thickness, makers have made a good job, and the decorated movement KP9010 looks like a P.9010. There are many obvious differences and some evident false wheels but the rep decorated movement has good appearance and having the balance wheel @11 like gen in a first glance and without a close inspection could be taken as a gen. Even better than the usual rep decorated movements of P.9000. See below the direct comparison. You can see the balance wheels in the same position and the usual differences of finish and jewels colour. Obviously balance wheel and balance wheel zone are the less accurate area, being all the parts bigger in the rep movement. Indeed in gen P.9010 you can see complete and clearly the balance wheel, whereas that is impossible in rep decorated movement and even a part of the real balance cock of the A7750 movement (under the decoration) hides a part of the rep balance wheel. Since this watch has solid caseback the movement accuracy is less important. It is no necessary to say that rep movement has not some features of the gen and that power reserve of rep decorated movement is the PR of a conventional A7750 far from the 3 days of the gen P.9010. EVALUATION This rep is a very good attempt from the maker. KW-V6Fac has made a nice job with this watch. Obviously it is really difficult to get some features of the gen watch and those are the main flaws of this watch. In the pros we have an excellent manufacture, credible Carbotech quality, accuracy of the dial (aside date wheel and dots lume) In the cons we have thickness, date wheel fonts, dots lume surface, some differences of CP and center of the hands, caseback made of SS, lack of production number on caseback. And, of course the lack of features of the rep movement in relation with the gen. As above commented, this new series of Luminor 1950 watches was created to get a thinner case more wearable and comfortable. If the watch is not thinner we will be betraying the main “spirit” of these new models. For this reason, although the thicker caseset of the rep could be few noticeable under some situations, we have to consider the thickness a flaw to be considered and that we cannot forget in the evaluation. This rep has a Super rep quality of manufacture and the closed caseback helps in the evaluation, but the flaws above commented together with the thickness don’t allow more than First Class rep low level Waiting for your comments regarding evaluation to include the final decision in PAM GUIDE ALE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
