gB. 0 Posted March 25, 2014 Bronze vs. Brass 1. Once aged, bronze is a brownish color whereas brass is the more greyish greenish, bluish. Both will weather to the some degree of verdigris patina without maintenance. 2. They differ in the amount of metals used in the amalgam. Brass is a combination of copper and zinc while alpha bronze is primarily a combination of copper and tin. 3. Bronze items are generally four times more expensive than brass, which is why brass is typically used for lower cost applications. 4. Brass melts at lower temperature and therefore use less energy to melt. It machines and polishes much easier than Bronze and therefore the price to make a fitting from it is lower. Also, it goes away much more quickly and therefore the customer will have to purchase replacement parts much sooner. 5. Bronze is much stronger and more corrosion resistant than brass. 6. Bronze is harder and more abrasion resistant than brass 7. As brass deteriorates, it creates an oxide (a grey white powder - zinc oxide). For example, zinc oxide is acetic and will attack the lignum in wood making it rot. 8. Non-aged, bronze is richer, more golden in color than brass which is usually a yellow color. If an XRF analysis is not an option, easier mechanical test is an alternative. Using the smallest drill bit that you have, drill a small hole in an unimportant area of the material and look at the metal turnings that come out. If they are long and stringy, the fittings are probably Bronze. If the turnings are small (like snow flakes), then the metal is probably brass and even more probably a leaded brass. Brass is the term used for alloys of copper and zinc in a solid solution. Typically it is more than 50% copper and from 5 to 20% zinc, in comparison to bronze which is principally an alloy of copper and tin. Despite this distinction, some types of brasses are called bronzes. Brass has a yellow colour, somewhat similar to gold. It is relatively resistant to tarnishing, and is often used as decoration. Comparatively, brass is a very soft metal. For example, it is used for plumbing fixtures because it is easy to work with and easily tooled. Brass is not as hard as bronze. Brass is also prone to corrosion, so most plumbing fixtures are coated with another metal such as chrome to make it more durable. Bronze on the other hand is very hard and can last forever. In fact, there are several grades of bronze. Bronze refers to a broad range of copper alloys, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon. It is strong and tough, and has myriad uses in industry. Bearing Bronze As the name implies, this is the most commonly used bronze in bushing and bearing applications. It is comparably easy to machine, and provides long life in applications where wear is a consideration. Bearing Bronze (C932), a/k/a SAE 660 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 35,000 Yield Strength, psi 20,000 Elongation in 2" 10% Brinell Hardness 65 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 81.0 - 85.0% Tin (Sn) 6.3 - 7.5% Lead 6.0 - 8.0% Zinc 2.0 - 4.0% Aluminum Bronze Aluminum bronzes are most valued for their higher strength and corrosion resistance as compared to other bronze alloys. These alloys are tarnish-resistant and show low rates of corrosion in atmospheric conditions, low oxidation rates at high temperatures, and low reactivity with sulfurous compounds and other exhaust products of combustion. They are also resistant to corrosion in sea water. Finally, they prevent colonization by marine organisms including algae, barnacles, and mussels. Aluminum bronzes are most commonly used in applications where their resistance to corrosion makes them preferable to other engineering materials. Aluminum Bronze, C954 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 32,000 Elongation in 2" 12% Brinell Hardness 170 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 83.0% min Iron (Fe) 3.0 - 5.0% Aluminum (Al) 10.0 - 11.5% Silicon Bronze Silicon Bronze is a high-strength, highly corrosion resistant material with nonmagnetic properties. It is generally as strong as steel. Because of its composition, it is more difficult to machine. However, it is excellent for use in general marine applications, as well as pumps and boilers. Silicon Bronze, C655 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 55,000 Elongation in 2" 20% Rockwell Hardness B90 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 97.0% min Iron (Fe) 0.8% max Manganese (Mn) 1.5% max Nickel (Ni) 0.6% max Lead (Pb) 0.5% max Silicon (Si) 2.8 - 3.8% Zinc (Zn) 1.5% max Manganese Bronze Manganese Bronze is a high-strength bronze alloy primarily used in heavy-duty applications. Manganese Bronze (C863) Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 119,000 Yield Strength, psi 66,700 Hardness, Brinell 225 Elongation at break 18% Machinability 8% Chemistry Copper (Cu) 60.0 - 68.0% Aluminum (Al) 3 - 7.5% Iron (Fe) 2.0 - 4.0% Manganese (Mn) 2.50 - 5.0% Zinc (Zn) 25.0% The most accepted and accurate method for determining the metal alloy composition in either brass or bronze material is an X-ray Fluorescence analysis, or XRF. While the XRF analyzer equipment required to perform this test is not cheap (i.e. thousands of dollars for a handheld unit), there are firms that provide this service for a nominal fee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trksh-bzr 3 Posted March 25, 2014 Bronze vs. Brass 1. Once aged, bronze is a brownish color whereas brass is the more greyish greenish, bluish. Both will weather to the some degree of verdigris patina without maintenance. 2. They differ in the amount of metals used in the amalgam. Brass is a combination of copper and zinc while alpha bronze is primarily a combination of copper and tin. 3. Bronze items are generally four times more expensive than brass, which is why brass is typically used for lower cost applications. 4. Brass melts at lower temperature and therefore use less energy to melt. It machines and polishes much easier than Bronze and therefore the price to make a fitting from it is lower. Also, it goes away much more quickly and therefore the customer will have to purchase replacement parts much sooner. 5. Bronze is much stronger and more corrosion resistant than brass. 6. Bronze is harder and more abrasion resistant than brass 7. As brass deteriorates, it creates an oxide (a grey white powder - zinc oxide). For example, zinc oxide is acetic and will attack the lignum in wood making it rot. 8. Non-aged, bronze is richer, more golden in color than brass which is usually a yellow color. If an XRF analysis is not an option, easier mechanical test is an alternative. Using the smallest drill bit that you have, drill a small hole in an unimportant area of the material and look at the metal turnings that come out. If they are long and stringy, the fittings are probably Bronze. If the turnings are small (like snow flakes), then the metal is probably brass and even more probably a leaded brass. Brass is the term used for alloys of copper and zinc in a solid solution. Typically it is more than 50% copper and from 5 to 20% zinc, in comparison to bronze which is principally an alloy of copper and tin. Despite this distinction, some types of brasses are called bronzes. Brass has a yellow colour, somewhat similar to gold. It is relatively resistant to tarnishing, and is often used as decoration. Comparatively, brass is a very soft metal. For example, it is used for plumbing fixtures because it is easy to work with and easily tooled. Brass is not as hard as bronze. Brass is also prone to corrosion, so most plumbing fixtures are coated with another metal such as chrome to make it more durable. Bronze on the other hand is very hard and can last forever. In fact, there are several grades of bronze. Bronze refers to a broad range of copper alloys, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon. It is strong and tough, and has myriad uses in industry. Bearing Bronze As the name implies, this is the most commonly used bronze in bushing and bearing applications. It is comparably easy to machine, and provides long life in applications where wear is a consideration. Bearing Bronze (C932), a/k/a SAE 660 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 35,000 Yield Strength, psi 20,000 Elongation in 2" 10% Brinell Hardness 65 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 81.0 - 85.0% Tin (Sn) 6.3 - 7.5% Lead 6.0 - 8.0% Zinc 2.0 - 4.0% Aluminum Bronze Aluminum bronzes are most valued for their higher strength and corrosion resistance as compared to other bronze alloys. These alloys are tarnish-resistant and show low rates of corrosion in atmospheric conditions, low oxidation rates at high temperatures, and low reactivity with sulfurous compounds and other exhaust products of combustion. They are also resistant to corrosion in sea water. Finally, they prevent colonization by marine organisms including algae, barnacles, and mussels. Aluminum bronzes are most commonly used in applications where their resistance to corrosion makes them preferable to other engineering materials. Aluminum Bronze, C954 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 32,000 Elongation in 2" 12% Brinell Hardness 170 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 83.0% min Iron (Fe) 3.0 - 5.0% Aluminum (Al) 10.0 - 11.5% Silicon Bronze Silicon Bronze is a high-strength, highly corrosion resistant material with nonmagnetic properties. It is generally as strong as steel. Because of its composition, it is more difficult to machine. However, it is excellent for use in general marine applications, as well as pumps and boilers. Silicon Bronze, C655 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 55,000 Elongation in 2" 20% Rockwell Hardness B90 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 97.0% min Iron (Fe) 0.8% max Manganese (Mn) 1.5% max Nickel (Ni) 0.6% max Lead (Pb) 0.5% max Silicon (Si) 2.8 - 3.8% Zinc (Zn) 1.5% max Manganese Bronze Manganese Bronze is a high-strength bronze alloy primarily used in heavy-duty applications. Manganese Bronze (C863) Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 119,000 Yield Strength, psi 66,700 Hardness, Brinell 225 Elongation at break 18% Machinability 8% Chemistry Copper (Cu) 60.0 - 68.0% Aluminum (Al) 3 - 7.5% Iron (Fe) 2.0 - 4.0% Manganese (Mn) 2.50 - 5.0% Zinc (Zn) 25.0% The most accepted and accurate method for determining the metal alloy composition in either brass or bronze material is an X-ray Fluorescence analysis, or XRF. While the XRF analyzer equipment required to perform this test is not cheap (i.e. thousands of dollars for a handheld unit), there are firms that provide this service for a nominal fee. you sound smart, why don't you build me a rocket..? nice info, I often wondered what the diff was.....now I know where to read about it, as I basically don't think I will remember what you just wrote ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frankt8242 1 Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Excellent info, but I wouldn't care to own a watch built from either metal...I have in the past, but not on purpose...(They were cheap plated junk, made to look like gold or steel!!) Edited March 25, 2014 by Frankt8242 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtwc 1 Posted March 25, 2014 gB: great explanation. Now tell me, clever clogs, how much Kuvarsit's Pam382 lookee-likee Bronzo will cost ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gB. 0 Posted March 25, 2014 gB: great explanation. Now tell me, clever clogs, how much Kuvarsit's Pam382 lookee-likee Bronzo will cost ! 3,088.45 CNY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elp 26 Posted March 25, 2014 I have access to an XRF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daywatch 4 Posted March 25, 2014 Thx for the enlightenment. That was instructive:) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kromp 0 Posted March 25, 2014 ^^^ What he said. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dalboy 2 Posted March 25, 2014 Bronze vs. Brass 1. Once aged, bronze is a brownish color whereas brass is the more greyish greenish, bluish. Both will weather to the some degree of verdigris patina without maintenance. 2. They differ in the amount of metals used in the amalgam. Brass is a combination of copper and zinc while alpha bronze is primarily a combination of copper and tin. 3. Bronze items are generally four times more expensive than brass, which is why brass is typically used for lower cost applications. 4. Brass melts at lower temperature and therefore use less energy to melt. It machines and polishes much easier than Bronze and therefore the price to make a fitting from it is lower. Also, it goes away much more quickly and therefore the customer will have to purchase replacement parts much sooner. 5. Bronze is much stronger and more corrosion resistant than brass. 6. Bronze is harder and more abrasion resistant than brass 7. As brass deteriorates, it creates an oxide (a grey white powder - zinc oxide). For example, zinc oxide is acetic and will attack the lignum in wood making it rot. 8. Non-aged, bronze is richer, more golden in color than brass which is usually a yellow color. If an XRF analysis is not an option, easier mechanical test is an alternative. Using the smallest drill bit that you have, drill a small hole in an unimportant area of the material and look at the metal turnings that come out. If they are long and stringy, the fittings are probably Bronze. If the turnings are small (like snow flakes), then the metal is probably brass and even more probably a leaded brass. Brass is the term used for alloys of copper and zinc in a solid solution. Typically it is more than 50% copper and from 5 to 20% zinc, in comparison to bronze which is principally an alloy of copper and tin. Despite this distinction, some types of brasses are called bronzes. Brass has a yellow colour, somewhat similar to gold. It is relatively resistant to tarnishing, and is often used as decoration. Comparatively, brass is a very soft metal. For example, it is used for plumbing fixtures because it is easy to work with and easily tooled. Brass is not as hard as bronze. Brass is also prone to corrosion, so most plumbing fixtures are coated with another metal such as chrome to make it more durable. Bronze on the other hand is very hard and can last forever. In fact, there are several grades of bronze. Bronze refers to a broad range of copper alloys, usually with tin as the main additive, but sometimes with other elements such as phosphorus, manganese, aluminum, or silicon. It is strong and tough, and has myriad uses in industry. Bearing Bronze As the name implies, this is the most commonly used bronze in bushing and bearing applications. It is comparably easy to machine, and provides long life in applications where wear is a consideration. Bearing Bronze (C932), a/k/a SAE 660 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 35,000 Yield Strength, psi 20,000 Elongation in 2" 10% Brinell Hardness 65 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 81.0 - 85.0% Tin (Sn) 6.3 - 7.5% Lead 6.0 - 8.0% Zinc 2.0 - 4.0% Aluminum Bronze Aluminum bronzes are most valued for their higher strength and corrosion resistance as compared to other bronze alloys. These alloys are tarnish-resistant and show low rates of corrosion in atmospheric conditions, low oxidation rates at high temperatures, and low reactivity with sulfurous compounds and other exhaust products of combustion. They are also resistant to corrosion in sea water. Finally, they prevent colonization by marine organisms including algae, barnacles, and mussels. Aluminum bronzes are most commonly used in applications where their resistance to corrosion makes them preferable to other engineering materials. Aluminum Bronze, C954 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 32,000 Elongation in 2" 12% Brinell Hardness 170 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 83.0% min Iron (Fe) 3.0 - 5.0% Aluminum (Al) 10.0 - 11.5% Silicon Bronze Silicon Bronze is a high-strength, highly corrosion resistant material with nonmagnetic properties. It is generally as strong as steel. Because of its composition, it is more difficult to machine. However, it is excellent for use in general marine applications, as well as pumps and boilers. Silicon Bronze, C655 Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 85,000 Yield Strength, psi 55,000 Elongation in 2" 20% Rockwell Hardness B90 Chemistry Copper (Cu) 97.0% min Iron (Fe) 0.8% max Manganese (Mn) 1.5% max Nickel (Ni) 0.6% max Lead (Pb) 0.5% max Silicon (Si) 2.8 - 3.8% Zinc (Zn) 1.5% max Manganese Bronze Manganese Bronze is a high-strength bronze alloy primarily used in heavy-duty applications. Manganese Bronze (C863) Minimum Properties Ultimate Tensile Strength, psi 119,000 Yield Strength, psi 66,700 Hardness, Brinell 225 Elongation at break 18% Machinability 8% Chemistry Copper (Cu) 60.0 - 68.0% Aluminum (Al) 3 - 7.5% Iron (Fe) 2.0 - 4.0% Manganese (Mn) 2.50 - 5.0% Zinc (Zn) 25.0% The most accepted and accurate method for determining the metal alloy composition in either brass or bronze material is an X-ray Fluorescence analysis, or XRF. While the XRF analyzer equipment required to perform this test is not cheap (i.e. thousands of dollars for a handheld unit), there are firms that provide this service for a nominal fee. Is this available in English.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beefalope 0 Posted March 25, 2014 It sure is in English, and it goes like this: Bronze is an awesome material for the outside of your watch. Exhibit A: Halios Tropik B. Brass is an awesome material for the inside of your watch. Exhibit A: a watch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gB. 0 Posted March 25, 2014 Is this available in English.? Sure. The PAM 382 reps will be fucking brass metal alloy material. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trksh-bzr 3 Posted March 25, 2014 Is this available in English.? Sure. The PAM 382 reps will be fucking bras metal alloy material. so you're saying that you know what the alloy is in bra's? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cannibal 0 Posted March 25, 2014 I have a brass cased Gruppo Gamma watch. It's got a nice brownish-gold patina on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gB. 0 Posted March 25, 2014 Is this available in English.? Sure. The PAM 382 reps will be fucking bras metal alloy material. so you're saying that you know what the alloy is in bra's? Of course. The very desirable areola alloy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
