Beware of the Z2 aka POS "fake eta clone" aka "new breed high beat 2813" aka "Shanghai Eta 2836 copy" movement!

[bakou 0]

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[dfq23 131]

[BadPickle 2,749]

Stew, you're just a duche that enjoys causing trouble, plain and simple. Some enjoy your clown act but most realize you're just a duche.

 

Omg kore, I didn't realise you held me in such high esteem...

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/duche

 

In my country we spell it "duke" but thanks all the same

 

Ooops!! Maybe I got it wrong and you were meaning this --

 

"Pass the dutchie.... tra la la la la"

 

 

[Kcore 0]

Stew, you're just a duche that enjoys causing trouble, plain and simple. Some enjoy your clown act but most realize you're just a duche.

 

Omg kore, I didn't realise you held me in such high esteem...

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/duche

 

In my country we spell it "duke" but thanks all the same

 

Ooops!! Maybe I got it wrong and you were meaning this --

 

"Pass the dutchie.... tra la la la la"

 

 

You're absolutely correct, my bad for not checking the silly auto-correct.

So I'll correct:,- Stew, you're just a " DOUCHE," as in DOUCHE BAG.

[BadPickle 2,749]

Stew, you're just a duche that enjoys causing trouble, plain and simple. Some enjoy your clown act but most realize you're just a duche.

 

Omg kore, I didn't realise you held me in such high esteem...

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/duche

 

In my country we spell it "duke" but thanks all the same

 

Ooops!! Maybe I got it wrong and you were meaning this --

 

"Pass the dutchie.... tra la la la la"

 

 

You're absolutely correct, my bad for not checking the silly auto-correct.

So I'll correct:,- Stew, you're just a " DOUCHE," as in DOUCHE BAG.

 

And right on cue with the personal insults, emphasising your severe lack of intellectual ability. Tbh I didn't know what it meant, so I asked Jeeves......... , gotta empty my cookie jar thingy now :(

[GenTLe 1,509]

Thanks mate for the information, and also that you provided it for the others.

I can add some info with these 21J lookalikes Clones movements.

 

I can agree, the Z2 is really POS.

 

BUT

 

there is one bright thing.

 

IF

 

the dealers sells the watch with the "21J" movement AKA Z2, for much less compared to the Clone ETA and will state that it is 21J movement not the ETA version.

 

there is one bright thing on this cheaper version of the watch watch. *** Etleast on the version of 21J look a like Eta I had here for movement swap. ***

 

it was an Carbon AP diver, sold as an Clone ETA, but it had this type of 21J movement.

 

The hands were compatible with Clone ETA and so was the Dial. All I needed to change was to find an black datewheel and replace the stem for ETA version, as the stock was 21J type DG2813 looks like. Yes the datewheel is completely different. The hands on my model, including second hand fit on the clone eta .

 

So this means, you can just swap it for regular Clone or Swiss or SW200 Eta movement, and all you need is just stem , and if applicable, correct datewheel (special watches with black datewheel and when no datewheel overlay is used) as the Z2 should have same dimensions as Eta. But depend how many of this versions of cheaper alternatives of clones will be made. On the version of POS movement I have replaced, the hands were compatible with ETA. But as with all reps, everything can have bigger or smaller tolerances, so best to be safe, If you want to swap your movement for SWISS, get a clone ETA and then swap, to be safe that you will get compatible hands, dial, and datewheel.

 

I will provide pics of the POS movement here when I get home.

 

** Updated statement

 

Hi KeNnY,

problem is: this is not 21j. 21j is the DG2813: the DG2813 in his more basic and diffused form (3 hands time and date) is similar to the Miyota 8215 (but not directly swappable) and beats at 21.6kBPH.

This one is the "new breed" or "asian 25J" or "asian copy shangai", and it has 25j (see 1st picture of the thread).

 

It is important to specify this because I don't want noobs, or people that aren't that much into these technicalities, to avoid the work-horse DS2813 just because of a misunderstanding.

 

You are right about the fact that the dimensions are in very similar with the Clone/Gen ETA (see 1st picture of the thread), I can't directly confirm (for now: I have at home one of these POS but I didn't even try the swap because it's a black DW) about the hands: my information are that one of the hands will be loose on the ETA (not that much: you can probably tight it enough with a pin vice). Then as you said too, there is a problem on the date wheel: any not standard DW will be then a problem because they are not swappable.

 

In the end: those pieces are sold around 50/80$ less than the Asian ETA clone ones (well, latest Seawolf from H Factory are 278$!!!! I would feel raped if I would have spent 278$ on that trash!), and then sooner or later the owner should:

- buy a good movement (92$: www.ebay.com/itm/321467374718 )

- swap it (if the owner is able) with the risk of mess up something or send it to one of the thousands "certified watchmakers" around to make him doing the swap (let's say 30$ shipment and at least 50$ work?)

- accept it even if the DW is not gen-like or, worse, if it has an overlay, totally out of alignment

 

To me, even if they were 100$ less, they are a no-no: they call for problems...

 

PS: They know it's a bad movement too: look at the name of this one :D http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Watch-55-commemorative-plate-table-fully-automatic-spermatagonial-sb1hrz2/1112846_1663833320.html

[Daywatch 4]

Thanks Gentle, all this is useful an informative and the pics help to illustrate all.

[dave47 6,494]

This is just a refresh for those who may have forgot about this problem...

Some of the pics have been taken one year ago from SSteel, some I've found on the web and modified later.

 

Recently I purchased a watch from one of our member (IMPORTANT: I'm sure he didn't know about the fact that the movement was different than the one advertised by the TD), knowing it had some problem and thinking that I could have fixed it, supposing it to be an Asian Eta clone.

 

Unfortunately, when I got it in my hands it turned out that it was not an Eta clone but something that looks similar but it's one of the most terrible movement I've happen to see.

The "infamous" Z2 clone-of-clone, also called "new breed high beat asian", also called PieceOfShit (POS) movement. Real code is "SB1HRZ2":

 

It was in this watch, misrepresented by one of our TD: http://www.tswatchlt...c-ss-a2836.html

 

Well guys, STAY AWAY from that movement. It is really as bad as it can be. The escapement works fine (it can keep good time), but the rest is a disaster, starting from the terrible finishing of it.

 

Just a quick refresh to see how you can spot it in the following pictures. Note that what I write about ETA is valid also for the real Asian ETA Clones like the Seagull ST21

 

1) the POS dial is kept in place by screws and not by hooks like in gen/asian ETA:

h

 

 

 

2) the click is very different and really as bad as it can be: on the POS is on the ratchet wheel, on the ETA is on crown wheel:

 

 

 

3) the autowind bridge is also different: on the POS all the reverse wheels are not kept in place by a lower bridge, while they are on ETA

 

 

The first 2 points are the most recognizable out of the movement.

 

Look carefully and you may spot some detail that will let you discover the POS signs, like here:

 

 

Note that you can't just swap an asian ETA there because:

• hour or minute (don't remember) hand will be loose on the ETA
  
• date wheel is totally different and will not fit the ETA
  

Also note that there are NO spare parts for it (and being a POS it doesn't even deserve them...) and also simple parts like the stem are not replaceable with ETA ones.

 

 

VERY impressive lesson, G. Thank You for it, even though I didn't understand much of it. I'm sure the more experienced members here did.

 

dave

[KeNnY 29]

Thanks mate for the information, and also that you provided it for the others.

I can add some info with these 21J lookalikes Clones movements.

 

I can agree, the Z2 is really POS.

 

BUT

 

there is one bright thing.

 

IF

 

the dealers sells the watch with the "21J" movement AKA Z2, for much less compared to the Clone ETA and will state that it is 21J movement not the ETA version.

 

there is one bright thing on this cheaper version of the watch watch. *** Etleast on the version of 21J look a like Eta I had here for movement swap. ***

 

it was an Carbon AP diver, sold as an Clone ETA, but it had this type of 21J movement.

 

The hands were compatible with Clone ETA and so was the Dial. All I needed to change was to find an black datewheel and replace the stem for ETA version, as the stock was 21J type DG2813 looks like. Yes the datewheel is completely different. The hands on my model, including second hand fit on the clone eta .

 

So this means, you can just swap it for regular Clone or Swiss or SW200 Eta movement, and all you need is just stem , and if applicable, correct datewheel (special watches with black datewheel and when no datewheel overlay is used) as the Z2 should have same dimensions as Eta. But depend how many of this versions of cheaper alternatives of clones will be made. On the version of POS movement I have replaced, the hands were compatible with ETA. But as with all reps, everything can have bigger or smaller tolerances, so best to be safe, If you want to swap your movement for SWISS, get a clone ETA and then swap, to be safe that you will get compatible hands, dial, and datewheel.

 

I will provide pics of the POS movement here when I get home.

 

** Updated statement

 

Hi KeNnY,

problem is: this is not 21j. 21j is the DG2813: the DG2813 in his more basic and diffused form (3 hands time and date) is similar to the Miyota 8215 (but not directly swappable) and beats at 21.6kBPH.

This one is the "new breed" or "asian 25J" or "asian copy shangai", and it has 25j (see 1st picture of the thread).

 

It is important to specify this because I don't want noobs, or people that aren't that much into these technicalities, to avoid the work-horse DS2813 just because of a misunderstanding.

 

You are right about the fact that the dimensions are in very similar with the Clone/Gen ETA (see 1st picture of the thread), I can't directly confirm (for now: I have at home one of these POS but I didn't even try the swap because it's a black DW) about the hands: my information are that one of the hands will be loose on the ETA (not that much: you can probably tight it enough with a pin vice). Then as you said too, there is a problem on the date wheel: any not standard DW will be then a problem because they are not swappable.

 

In the end: those pieces are sold around 50/80$ less than the Asian ETA clone ones (well, latest Seawolf from H Factory are 278$!!!! I would feel raped if I would have spent 278$ on that trash!), and then sooner or later the owner should:

- buy a good movement (92$: www.ebay.com/itm/321467374718 )

- swap it (if the owner is able) with the risk of mess up something or send it to one of the thousands "certified watchmakers" around to make him doing the swap (let's say 30$ shipment and at least 50$ work?)

- accept it even if the DW is not gen-like or, worse, if it has an overlay, totally out of alignment

 

To me, even if they were 100$ less, they are a no-no: they call for problems...

 

PS: They know it's a bad movement too: look at the name of this one :D http://www.aliexpres...1663833320.html

 

yeah my bad for calling it 21J movement, it beats at 28800 but the quality materials are like on the DG2813 movements. Lets then call it Z2.

 

TO me I think they want cheaper version of Clone ETA movement and they have made the Z2. I could understand that it is easier to make one type of hands that would fit the Clone ETA and Z2, I tested some ETA 2824/2836 hands I have here and they fit like on ETA movements, solidly.

 

This is not first time they made this, I remember the 3135 "clone" what is a look a like a clone of a ETA clone, but keyless parts are like 1,2x bigger compared to standard ETA. Also a POS movement. BP factory was widely using them, and on the rotor part was written RGLTED 5 POSTNS or something similar.

 

I have added pics to my original post, from it here are few

 

[GenTLe 1,509]

Thanks mate, good to know then I will look if I can resurrect that Omega I have here then

[KeNnY 29]

Thanks mate, good to know then I will look if I can resurrect that Omega I have here then

 

You are welcome

 

Try it buddy,

 

I was surprised that it fit, also the second hand, no forcing or anything.

 

here it is with new real Clone ETA, in the AP Carbon first version, before closing the back

 

 

Mianos will write tomorrow regarding the watch.

[Genius 281]

Thanks mate, good to know then I will look if I can resurrect that Omega I have here then

 

You are welcome

 

Try it buddy,

 

I was surprised that it fit, also the second hand, no forcing or anything.

 

here it is with new real Clone ETA, in the AP Carbon first version, before closing the back

 

 

Mianos will write tomorrow regarding the watch.

Interested to know where you got the date wheel for your forged carbon, as mine has just died so may as well swap the z2 for a real clone eta

[KeNnY 29]

Thanks mate, good to know then I will look if I can resurrect that Omega I have here then

 

You are welcome

 

Try it buddy,

 

I was surprised that it fit, also the second hand, no forcing or anything.

 

here it is with new real Clone ETA, in the AP Carbon first version, before closing the back

 

 

Mianos will write tomorrow regarding the watch.

Interested to know where you got the date wheel for your forged carbon, as mine has just died so may as well swap the z2 for a real clone eta

 

 

Used "generic" datewheel, depending on the ETA version you have, if you have version of ETA where the date wheel is flat or like this

 

 

bought from here

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271305280978

[Genius 281]

Thanks bud! Much appreciated

[Genius 281]

Cheapest eta clone I could find was a seagull st2130 and it comes with a white on black date wheel already installed!

 

Seller has 2 left if anyone else is interested

[Kcore 0]

GenTLe, super post, especially the pics. KeNny, nice added info and pics.

Thanks guys! I've added this to my favorites for movts.

[Genius 281]

Link to the seagull

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=171887713946&alt=web

[lkapalek 0]

Anybody try to use stem from POS with eta 2824 clone?

will old gen eta 2824 will repleace POS like new ones chinese clones?

[GenTLe 1,509]

Ad far as I know they aren't compatible

[Frazzle 5]

Cheapest eta clone I could find was a seagull st2130 and it comes with a white on black date wheel already installed!

 

Seller has 2 left if anyone else is interested

 

I have an ST2130 fitted in my Air King, I bought the movement new from eBay for £20, wish I'd bought more! It's probably the smoothest and most reliable movement fitted in all my watches. I literally pick the watch out if the box, set the time and it spins into action. No winding required!!

[Genius 281]

Cheapest eta clone I could find was a seagull st2130 and it comes with a white on black date wheel already installed!

 

Seller has 2 left if anyone else is interested

 

I have an ST2130 fitted in my Air King, I bought the movement new from eBay for £20, wish I'd bought more! It's probably the smoothest and most reliable movement fitted in all my watches. I literally pick the watch out if the box, set the time and it spins into action. No winding required!!

You got a serious bargain there!

[Harkin Banks 1]

Can anyone tell if this is the POS movement? Was browsing ebay and the wording of this listing made me pause:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Automatic-Movement-Based-upon-an-ETA-2824-/262048948403?hash=item3d0355a0b3

[black263 228]

Can anyone tell if this is the POS movement? Was browsing ebay and the wording of this listing made me pause:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item3d0355a0b3

Looks different to me. The POS from what I've read has an eccentric screw and fork regulator. (Not sure of the correct name!) The ebay one has the short lever which doesn't use a screw adjustment.

[insert-here 0]

Thanks for keeping this post going, I forgot I read about it already. Good info.

[Genius 281]

Can anyone tell if this is the POS movement? Was browsing ebay and the wording of this listing made me pause:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Automatic-Movement-Based-upon-an-ETA-2824-/262048948403?hash=item3d0355a0b3

The specifications in the listing state it as a low beat