ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 IIRC VDB was machining his own cases so his products weren't Chinese, especially when he used Angelus or Cortebert movements. Yeah some construction turned out to be shoddy but in reality ALL of our rep watches are sub-par compared to gen LOL This is only true for specific instances where people were willing to pay for their "1:1" cases, and only in the last year. The vast majority of the watches are/were made with Silix 3646, 6154 cases, DSN Fiddy cases, etc. There was a lot of confusion with people thinking he made all his own parts, but in reality he was using Ross dials, T hands, etc. just like everybody else. Don't get me started on the case-backs...I've seen multiple examples of where the stock back had the "back" part milled off, and then the threaded section was soldered onto a new "back". That is comedy.. But a bit crafty.. Dont you think? Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 What we must be careful of is a market crash in VDB stock leading to a double dip recession in the Eurozone. This could have political repercussions in Germany. VDBMadeoff? Too late.. The crash happened yesterday when all stock value plummeted to $0..pic your currency.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prestigewatchco 2 Posted January 21, 2011 What I find strange about this is no one seems to have bought only one discoverd it was rubbish and said fuck it. They have in the main bought 2-3 of them even with the original one they bought being a peice of crap. Am i missing something or are these people just not real? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PatronSaintofChainsaws 1 Posted January 21, 2011 What I find strange about this is no one seems to have bought only one discoverd it was rubbish and said fuck it. They have in the main bought 2-3 of them even with the original one they bought being a peice of crap. Am i missing something or are these people just not real? Most people don't open up their watches, especially if they're paying way too much for something, so they don't see the mess that was made on the inside...as long as it keeps decent time, they probably never will. The more of them you have, the greater chance that issues will eventually arise. I've heard of issues with other people's VDB-built watches that haven't even been brought up yet. We're talking movement rings shimmed with duct tape, movements that would flop around when the crown was unscrewed, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brightlight 0 Posted January 21, 2011 Hey what do you know, I'm not to be banned from W-C yet! I find I am actually a miserable jealous person spouting anger and hatred according to Joewatch - I actually find your comments and the other ones on RWG or RWI or wherever rather amusing. Its the same group of miserable jealous people spouting anger and hatred. There are sonme guys who talk bad about me that I have no idea who they are. and he is unrepentant - The VDB's arent "skin deep" I had 10 VDBs (spent over 30K) now I have 4, loved everyone of them and glad I bought them all. With the exception of a few, they all worked fine. The ones that didnt, were fixed by a watchsmith. I still say that VDB makes agreat watch. The problem is that he reperesnted gen parts that werent. And Joe's expert view on what is and what is not 'vintage' - I never said other creations didnt compare to VDB just that they werent true to vintage, throwing acid on a dial or leaving underwater for a while or throwing a case and a crystal in a bag with rocks doesnt make it vintage. More to be pitied than scorned I feel. But I don't think I will bother with W-C any more, the self delusionist nature of the place would get me down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10:10 Watch Repair 1 Posted January 21, 2011 The vast majority of the watches are/were made with Silix 3646, 6154 cases, DSN Fiddy cases, etc. There was a lot of confusion with people thinking he made all his own parts, but in reality he was using Ross dials, T hands, etc. just like everybody else. Don't get me started on the case-backs...I've seen multiple examples of where the stock back had the "back" part milled off, and then the threaded section was soldered onto a new "back". Exactly. Hobbyists all, only a couple of real watchmakers have ever visited these forums. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 Hey what do you know, I'm not to be banned from W-C yet! I find I am actually a miserable jealous person spouting anger and hatred according to Joewatch - I actually find your comments and the other ones on RWG or RWI or wherever rather amusing. Its the same group of miserable jealous people spouting anger and hatred. There are sonme guys who talk bad about me that I have no idea who they are. and he is unrepentant - The VDB's arent "skin deep" I had 10 VDBs (spent over 30K) now I have 4, loved everyone of them and glad I bought them all. With the exception of a few, they all worked fine. The ones that didnt, were fixed by a watchsmith. I still say that VDB makes agreat watch. The problem is that he reperesnted gen parts that werent. And Joe's expert view on what is and what is not 'vintage' - I never said other creations didnt compare to VDB just that they werent true to vintage, throwing acid on a dial or leaving underwater for a while or throwing a case and a crystal in a bag with rocks doesnt make it vintage. More to be pitied than scorned I feel. But I don't think I will bother with W-C any more, the self delusionist nature of the place would get me down. Very Interesting stuff.. This was via PM? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andygt 0 Posted January 21, 2011 I still don't understand what Joe considers to be 'true vintage'. Anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 A VDB? They are now history...lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 41 Posted January 21, 2011 I have to say that whole thing about "real" vintage and "not real" vintage at RG left a sour taste in my mouth too, but that has not repeated itself at WC. There has been no attempt to exclude "lesser" vintage efforts there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andygt 0 Posted January 21, 2011 Any idea what the fuck is real or not real fake vintage, John? I still have no idea and have read the offending thread on RG and it offers no answers either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiddo 0 Posted January 21, 2011 Any idea what the fuck is real or not real fake vintage, John?I still have no idea and have read the offending thread on RG and it offers no answers either. After reading some of the inofromation in this thread------- Real Vintage- A-1 Steak sauce, glue, plastic and duct tape. Fake Vintage- Using acid on the dial, placing case in a bag with rocks etc.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 41 Posted January 21, 2011 Any idea what the fuck is real or not real fake vintage, John?I still have no idea and have read the offending thread on RG and it offers no answers either. After reading some of the inofromation in this thread------- Real Vintage- A-1 Steak sauce, glue, plastic and duct tape. Fake Vintage- Using acid on the dial, placing case in a bag with rocks etc.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 Any idea what the fuck is real or not real fake vintage, John?I still have no idea and have read the offending thread on RG and it offers no answers either. After reading some of the inofromation in this thread------- Real Vintage- A-1 Steak sauce, glue, plastic and duct tape. Fake Vintage- Using acid on the dial, placing case in a bag with rocks etc.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PatronSaintofChainsaws 1 Posted January 21, 2011 I never said other creations didnt compare to VDB just that they werent true to vintage, throwing acid on a dial or leaving underwater for a while or throwing a case and a crystal in a bag with rocks doesnt make it vintage. The problem with that perspective is/was that a neat paint job on a dial and a hacked together movement doesn't make it any more "true vintage" or whatever than acid and rocks, and the "gen" parts that some used to determine the true vintage from the false have possibly been outed as fakes. For me it comes down to a combination of craftsmanship and intent. If you do your best, that's all that matters. On an unrelated note, when did the multi-VDB-build owners start the mass sell-off? Back in May/June of last year? Was there any public drama leading up to this? I was blocked from joining VDBs forum early last year (back when mrbigandwonderful was still admining it), so I never got to see whether-or-not anything went down on there between them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 Last Post and Closing post by PeteM.. As you guys may know I was very lucky in acquiring a gen 267 dial and hands. I also had by chance a gen CG crystal bezel crown for it so it made perfect sense to get a franken 267 build going. Of course the key to such a build is an Angelus sF 240 Movement so I had to start researching and calling upon senior and expert members to ask for help. I must say now how very grateful I was to Gordon, Ross and Stefan (Merlin) for such great initial advice and for taking the time to make it so much easier for me to understand. Thanks Guys I learnt the key aspects of an Angelus and likely prices and it was then I contacted VDB for some help also, he mentioned he had an Angelus movement from a gen 203, I could not believe it!! And to make it sweeter he was willing to sell it and make me a custom 267 CB. What luck I thought!! It cant get better than this... So I exchanged Emails with VDB and he agreed to sell me the movement the only thing was the price we agreed upon meant I needed to sell one of my gens to fund it. I asked VDB if he was willing to wait till after Xmas (this was in December). I explained I needed to sell a gen and that although I really didnt want to part with any of my gens I was willing to do so to get this project off the ground and to get his gen 203 movement. He said he understood and had no problem waiting as it was the wrong time to sell anyway so he could wait to get his money. I also asked for pics for some comfort. On that basis I put my watch up for sale at a price that would get me a quick sale, Hopefully!! I was lucky enough to have someone offer me a deal less than I was asking but still enough to make it work on buying the gen Angelus, yes I was blinded by the opportunity of owning the movement!! So the watch sold, I got my money. In the meantime I had been emailing VDB making sure all was still OK and still asking for pics... again he told me everything was OK and not to worry the deal was still going forward. Nearer to Xmas I chased for the pics but without response, I then tried a PM and was told without explanation or reason that he had changed his mind and wouldnt sell me the movement later he told me he was to using it himself... OK I was angry though at the end of the day its his decision, its his movement!! I could accept that to a degree but I was still really annoyed that he had let me sell a watch I did not really want to sell and for a lesser price. So from my point of view I found VDB to be someone I could not trust to honour an agreement, I left it at that, disappointed but accepting and a lesson learnt !! A short while later and by chance I came across the pics of the movement in question, I didnt bother to study them as it would only bring back the anger of the whole saga so I filed them. During that time I heard rumours of VDB trying to sell a gen 203 movement elsewhere whether thats true I dont know but again hearing this made me angry and then I wondered exactly why he pulled out of our deal.. I had to assume it was the same movement, logical I thought given the time frame and the rarity of something like that.. I then was fortunate enough to meet and exchange PMs and Emails with K, who was very helpful and informative especially as he didnt know me but he took the time to help. I mentioned the problem I had had, though without details initially, K asked to see the pics I had which I sent him. It turns out what VDB was trying to sell me was a converted Angelus from the 60s and on top of that it was a poor conversion. This was the same movement he tried to sell me as a gen 203 movement at a price very much higher than its worth as a converted Angelus. Having in that time learnt a bit about Angelus movements once I actually looked at the pics I could see just how bad the conversion was, now if I could see it... it just proves how bad it was! So in a way I have had a lucky escape but here I sit with a bad taste in my mouth over the whole situation and not sure if I should be glad I didnt buy it or upset I sold a gen I really didnt want to sell at a price that wasnt favourable. I did ask a few guys initially if I could trust VDB and all said I could and I had no worries, now I dont blame these guys at all and I have seen enough good stuff about VDB to know he was at one time some one you could reasonably trust however for what ever reason that is not the case for me ... maybe its because I was a noob maybe something else What ever his reason and from my own point of view I have found VDB to be less than honourable and someone I would not trust in any circumstance.. Hopefully all that makes sense and doesnt sound like sour grapes on my part...thanks for listening Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 I never said other creations didnt compare to VDB just that they werent true to vintage, throwing acid on a dial or leaving underwater for a while or throwing a case and a crystal in a bag with rocks doesnt make it vintage. The problem with that perspective is/was that a neat paint job on a dial and a hacked together movement doesn't make it any more "true vintage" or whatever than acid and rocks, and the "gen" parts that some used to determine the true vintage from the false have possibly been outed as fakes. For me it comes down to a combination of craftsmanship and intent. If you do your best, that's all that matters. On an unrelated note, when did the multi-VDB-build owners start the mass sell-off? Back in May/June of last year? Was there any public drama leading up to this? I was blocked from joining VDBs forum early last year (back when mrbigandwonderful was still admining it), so I never got to see whether-or-not anything went down on there between them. First I heard of this was like last month when BigCrown exploded.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfa437 0 Posted January 21, 2011 I am strongly opposed to flushing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 I am strongly opposed to flushing. YUK! It must stank up in your house I hope you at least flush when Julio comes to visit..lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBH 7 Posted January 21, 2011 I'm strongly opposed to Flushing, NY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PatronSaintofChainsaws 1 Posted January 21, 2011 I am strongly opposed to flushing. He prefers the smell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfa437 0 Posted January 21, 2011 I am strongly opposed to flushing. I hope you at least flush when Julio comes to visit..lol Nope that is when I break out the straightjacket and tablespoon to play "Airplane" whilst he is strapped into a dining room chair I'm strongly opposed to Flushing, NY. Oddly enough I am too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebzen02 341 Posted January 21, 2011 that is why I have created these wonderful forum toilets so that the shit gets flushed.. For your asses with love...Made by ToTo .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GC 4,512 Posted January 21, 2011 What's with all the Schadenfreude...? It's a simple case of a small group of collectors convincing themselves (and others i might add) that what they were collecting was exclusive, rare and more valuable than it actually was. They got burnt, found out the truth and now have to live with the repercussions. I know the RWG members are truly better than this thread shows. Make me proud fellas! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scope 3 Posted January 21, 2011 If I recall correctly txcollector is admin at WC.............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
