VDB Goes To Shit! Flushing Down The Sticky Diarrhea

[Akira 0]

No worries, I am here too.

you knew?

Yup, I knew.

did you tell Dingle?

 

dingle knows eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything :zzz:

 

So, does this mean you can all drive a Ferrari with no hands?

He even can drive a Ferrari with no Ferrari.

 

[10:10 Watch Repair 1]

as to Joe listing his watches, WTF did you expect with people insinuating he was lying about having any?

 

I'm with Brightlight on this.

But just in case, I'm going to post my bank statements. And if that doesn't work, I'm taking my ball and leaving the playground.

[ebzen02 341]

at the time you raffled off the VDB, were you aware of the quality problems and the poor reputation his work had gained amongst other owners?

that is a legitimate question.

 

Well it's a question that's sort of hanging over the entire fiasco and it is important because Joe is the forum owner.

 

as to Joe listing his watches, WTF did you expect with people insinuating he was lying about having any?

 

I didn't expect him to respond TBH and certainly not with a list. It's a very insecure thing to do. Or maybe it's just american and I'm misunderstanding it with my european viewpoint.

 

I don't think any one has questioned his gen watches.. I know he has a treasure trove of these trinkets. What we are questioning is his lack of integrity and whether or not he knew about this prior to a big sell off on his on forum by him and other friends of "VDB". The is a stench of dirty blood in the water that needs clearing up.

 

Also, as he couldnt sell his watches he started a Raffle to help recoup all of his losses on a fake $4500 watch he knew wouldn't sell and was not worth more than $500. I also believe that there are also other dirty things in the air that will at some point come to light..I hope it is by the folks that deceived us. For now, we saw a show of unfortunate arrogance that is, I believe, unAmerican as a whole and more a reflection of insecurity and lack of class. I hope you see it John..if you don't you are crap in my book and deserve not one iota of respect by me and RWG.

[ebzen02 341]

7:06 pm EST no response to a simple question.. Joe.. Did you know this was a sham before the Big Sell Off and Raffle?

Two options.. Yes or No.

[sfa437 0]

Guys- I saw Joe's Little Egi and it was a beautiful watch. If I had the $$ I'd have entered and have a six foot hard-on if I won.

 

If you question his collection and he responds to that it isn't bragging but answering the question and yes I have seen quite a few of these. Joe is after all local to me and has been to Casa de SFA. Mrs. Joe is an absolute doll and his kids are as nice as they come and I think that speaks to his way of relating to others more than anything I could say. I'm not one to throw away REAL friendships over internet crap. Don't get me wrong I am 100% loyal to RG and if you cut me I bleed dark blue- it is my home and everyone from J-C to the newest noob to me are great people; but I will also never throw someone under the bus just because it seems to be the popular thing to do. Joe and I have gone nose-to-nose occasionally, as have MBW & I and a few others. We all had valid gripes but in the end it got sorted and life went on.

 

Gotta give credit too that he came here as "Joewatch" and posted openly. Some others have been a bit devious in that regard recently.

 

IMO VDB got caught up in the rush to fill new orders. We've seen it happen with modders, watchsmiths and even some dealers. They get too big too fast and try to produce enough to satisfy everyone. Whether that is out of greed or a desire to please the members it invariably goes sideways once things reach critical mass. We're bringing a couple established but unofficial modders on at RG soon and they are getting told point blank not to try to max out production at the expense of quality or they'll be dropped.

[ebzen02 341]

Guys- I saw Joe's Little Egi and it was a beautiful watch. If I had the $$ I'd have entered and have a six foot hard-on if I won.

 

If you question his collection and he responds to that it isn't bragging but answering the question and yes I have seen quite a few of these. Joe is after all local to me and has been to Casa de SFA. Mrs. Joe is an absolute doll and his kids are as nice as they come and I think that speaks to his way of relating to others more than anything I could say. I'm not one to throw away REAL friendships over internet crap. Don't get me wrong I am 100% loyal to RG and if you cut me I bleed dark blue- it is my home and everyone from J-C to the newest noob to me are great people; but I will also never throw someone under the bus just because it seems to be the popular thing to do. Joe and I have gone nose-to-nose occasionally, as have MBW & I and a few others. We all had valid gripes but in the end it got sorted and life went on.

 

Gotta give creLdit too that he came here as "Joewatch" and posted openly. Some others have been a bit devious in that regard recently.

 

IMO VDB got caught up in the rush to fill new orders. We've seen it happen with modders, watchsmiths and even some dealers. They get too big too fast and try to produce enough to satisfy everyone. Whether that is out of greed or a desire to please the members it invariably goes sideways once things reach critical mass. We're bringing a couple established but unofficial modders on at RG soon and they are getting told point blank not to try to max out production at the expense of quality or they'll be dropped.

 

Pat.. I know where you stand and I know you know what transpired. You need to be deplomatic as all other mods and admins to protect their house. But, I just want folks to be aware that this happened and that they should have been protected from this. Creating shoddy builds is one thing repeated lying about a part(s) that cost high amounts of money is another my friend. And that is the issue at hand here. The cover up and price manipulation is another as well..

[ebzen02 341]

Oh.. And he is a lawyer.. They are by nature charming and sociopathic..

[ebzen02 341]

They are not going to admit to anything..We know that.. They have an audience to lose. But, I am not going to make it easy for them. That is for sure. Hopefully, folks question their actions, or at least moving forward think twice before falling to the $4000 magic fake watch and admin/mod knows best. We saw what happened at Rep geek. If the feathers hadn't been ruffled the way they were Julio would have gotten away with more watches..lol..

[sfa437 0]

Oh.. And he is a lawyer.. They are by nature charming and sociopathic..

 

:(

 

OK that was funny!

 

TBH I don't think Joe had any ill intent.

 

Guy has enuff money to toss em all in a river and not blink- there is no financial incentive to act in a dishonest fashion, especially as a forum founder. The damage to his reputation and to the faith of his membership for what, to him, amounts to be pocket chage makes no sense. Kind of like Dave scamming someone- no reason for him to do it so it's unlikely to happen.

 

I'm a cop and intel analyst and if things just don't add up in my mind I tend to go with no bad intentions and honest mistakes.

 

Everyone says Matt is the go-to guy for Panerai stuff. He even made a semi-career of busting fakes for sale on Ebay but it took him a while to realize that infamous 114 dial originating from Sylar was a replica. Now that is something we have LOADS of photos of and have ready access to pics of the genuine dial. How many pics exist of a 50 year old German Navy dive watch- and when you're looking at a CG or crown trying to compare photos... it's a mess and mistakes CAN be made.

 

I'm not sucking up to Joe & MBW either- just speaking my mind and giving my thought process as a counterpoint.

[txcollector 0]

I will probably regret this post because it's very apparent the only reason for this thread is not to expose VDB's shady practices but to bash Joe, MBW and W-C due to personal vendettas and bruised egos. However since Joe decided to post and the amount of manure just continues to grow I will break my own rule and post my thoughts. This will be a one time thing since this is not designed to fuel any emotional and immature exchange.

 

I find it laughable some of the accusations here, specially the insinuations that Robert continues to TRY to make about Joe and MBW having anything to do or profiting from VDB's lies. Coming from a guy that makes a living on illegal trade that's really ironic. Talk about a glass ceiling.

 

I also find it pitiful trying to say that what Sylar has done at RG (stealing money and watches from members, selling rep parts as gen, etc.) has any resemblance to anything that has happened or will ever happen at W-C. Sylar moment? try again.

 

You guys don't even know Joe personally and he certainly doesn't know you guys but you insist in lowering the discussion to name calling and cursing. Fine, 12 year olds should have a voice too but quite frankly when this becomes a lynching party instead of an adult discussion there's no way you will successfully make a point.

 

This seems like a schizophrenic crowd. When Joe tried to make a point via PERSONAL messages (of course were not kept that way) that he doesn't need to scam anyone since he already has enough money, the group here started to make fun of his watch collection. After he posts the collection he's showing off. Make up your minds.

 

The list Joe just posted is worth more than $300K. Any intelligent person would see that he doesn't need VDB or raffles to make money. He has an actual job that allows him to live well and doesn't require him to hide in some shady place in Asia so law enforcement won't find him. I'm sure that kind of success may provoke lots of envious feelings. It's human nature.

 

Compounding by bruised egos from the RG vintage discussions one can understand the attitude from some folks here. However you guys don't really expect people to believe your claim that you are doing this to "help the community". The word "payback" (or at least an attempt) comes to mind.

 

You don't like the guy and have a personal vendetta? Fine, nobody is asking for you to change how you feel but nobody is asking you to visit W-C either. You have a nice forum here, stay. Saying you don't care about W-C but spending all this time thinking and talking about Joe and the forum shows otherwise.

 

Finally "demanding" explanations of when somebody knew something about whatever:

 

1) nobody owes you guys any explanation

2) since you guys already have your minds made up any statement would be dismissed, so what's really the point?

 

But hey, free speech, keep at it.

 

W-C is a very well moderated WATCH forum and there's no space there for dramas, name calling or inflammatory distractions. We don't like to ban folks but if your intention is to create havoc, it's best you find another outlet for your anger because you won't last long there. And yes, what you say around the rep community has consequences.

 

I have zero expectation this will change anybody's mind but since I was invited to share my thoughts here they are.

 

PS: @JohnG, I'm really impressed with your attitude and I applaud you efforts to promote reconciliation, no matter how unlikely the possibility.

[ebzen02 341]

Your point is well taken. But, Remember when power is involved one of the most valuable assets is narcissistic admiration.

[sfa437 0]

Your point is well taken. But, Remember when power is involved one of the most valuable assets is narcissistic admiration.

 

Fuck admiration- I'm flat out jealous of his gen watches AND the reps! Seriously- I wish I could one day have a collection like that.

 

In real life Joe is as unpretentious as they come. Like I said he's been at my house and you'd never guess he was anything other than a blue collar kind of guy.

 

Mrs. SFA is jealous of Joe for a different reason..... Mrs. Watch :(

[ebzen02 341]

Tx. Welcome. Having money does not prevent the money hungry from scamming or covering up something that might hurt a reputation. At least I will not accuse Joe scamming, but of probably covering his and his friends track for their benefit. That is shady..

 

Asshole.. Yes you all are. Belittling and humiliating making people feel inferior in my books is an asshole behavior. That is what got me banned after responding to PSOC's posting about their behavior in the old vintage forum.

[pollux1 3]

@txcollector, you made a reasoned argument with regard to your forum and that's fair. However I'm sure you won't mind one jot if every single time a vdb is put up for sale on any forum people have the right to ask if it is built right, ie it isn't going to fall apart and of course the right is reserved to have any single part claimed as being genuine as having to be verified first or money back? Of course you won't because you nor the members of wc have any vested interest in those watches being sold for MORE than they are worth.

 

with regard to John? You wish to foster a culture of suck ups? Have at it.

[ebzen02 341]

Also posting a list of all of his watches is pretentious and childish.. Very low class.I doubt few will disagree.

[sfa437 0]

IMO if you're buying a watch for 4-10K you need to pay attention and to complete due dilligence & look into provenance.

 

I mean FFS if I'm buying a 10K motorcycle I'm going over every last square inch of that thing looking for ANYTHING that could/would be wrong.

 

Given the issues that came to light I'd expect any buyer to pick it apart screw by screw and the seller should not complain if questions are asked. That's just common sense.

[pollux1 3]

Also posting a list of all of his watches is pretentious and childish.. Very low class.I doubt few will disagree.

In fairness E he was asked to.

[AllergyDoc 40]

Everyone should try reading this thread while listening to old Jussi Bjorling recordings. Very uplifting.

[Fiddo 0]

IMO if you're buying a watch for 4-10K you need to pay attention and to complete due dilligence & look into provenance.

 

I mean FFS if I'm buying a 10K motorcycle I'm going over every last square inch of that thing looking for ANYTHING that could/would be wrong.

 

Given the issues that came to light I'd expect any buyer to pick it apart screw by screw and the seller should not complain if questions are asked. That's just common sense.

If one is thinking of paying 4-10 for a "fake" vintage watch, one really needs to step back and think first. Paying that kind of money is just plain crazy!

[sfa437 0]

IMO if you're buying a watch for 4-10K you need to pay attention and to complete due dilligence & look into provenance.

 

I mean FFS if I'm buying a 10K motorcycle I'm going over every last square inch of that thing looking for ANYTHING that could/would be wrong.

 

Given the issues that came to light I'd expect any buyer to pick it apart screw by screw and the seller should not complain if questions are asked. That's just common sense.

If one is thinking of paying 4-10 for a "fake" vintage watch, one really needs to step back and think first. Paying that kind of money is just plain crazy!

 

Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks.

 

I look at guys with 1500 buck frankens as a little off- I like mine out of the box.

 

I'm not gonna say that someone who wants something as realistic as possible should not spend the money if they have the means to do so anymore than I would want them telling me.

[txcollector 0]

Tx. Welcome. Having money does not prevent the money hungry from scamming or covering up something that might hurt a reputation. At least I will not accuse Joe scamming, but of probably covering his and his friends track for their benefit. That is shady..

 

Asshole.. Yes you all are. Belittling and humiliating making people feel inferior in my books is an asshole behavior.

 

and what cover up was that?

 

I'm sure there a number of VDBs out there with 618s and non alarm SF240 that are worth a lot of money for the movement alone. In the beginning VDB was working very hard to get it accurate and when he ran out of real parts he started scamming people. Now how could Joe and MBW be responsible for watches they have never seen/touched?

 

Joe still has 5 of the 10 VDBs he originally bought. He buys and sell expensive gens all the time as well. There's absolutely no evidence that he knew or tried to cover up VDB's shortcomings. The watches that had issues he sent out to a watchsmith for repairs. Even real vintage watches need work sometimes.

 

As far as the value is concerned it's a supply/demand issue. I would never pay $4K for a vintage watch but I would also not pay $4K for Tag or a Montblanc watch either. It's a question of where you want to spend your money.

 

I'm not aware that anybody was forced to buy VDB watches. On the contrary, the high prices really moved people to find more affordable options. From the accusations here it seems Joe created a cartel to inflate VDB prices and get a cut. Not only that, he forced a ton of people to buy those overpriced watches. My question is: why would he? What was there to gain? A guy that can afford to spend $300K on a watch collection would not need that.

 

Emotions cloud a lot of stuff. You can continue to believe that was something sinister going on but the reality is gossip without facts is just that, gossip.

[txcollector 0]

@txcollector, you made a reasoned argument with regard to your forum and that's fair. However I'm sure you won't mind one jot if every single time a vdb is put up for sale on any forum people have the right to ask if it is built right, ie it isn't going to fall apart and of course the right is reserved to have any single part claimed as being genuine as having to be verified first or money back? Of course you won't because you nor the members of wc have any vested interest in those watches being sold for MORE than they are worth.

 

with regard to John? You wish to foster a culture of suck ups? Have at it.

 

I couldn't care less about VDB watches. I don't see the point in his builds either and I don't think the cat will ever go back in the bag to remove the cloud over his builds. Remember, the smoking gun was posted at W-C to begin with. If we had any vested interest to hide something it's very easy to delete a thread. Have we done that? no. So I'm failing to see your point.

[txcollector 0]

IMO if you're buying a watch for 4-10K you need to pay attention and to complete due dilligence & look into provenance.

 

I mean FFS if I'm buying a 10K motorcycle I'm going over every last square inch of that thing looking for ANYTHING that could/would be wrong.

 

Given the issues that came to light I'd expect any buyer to pick it apart screw by screw and the seller should not complain if questions are asked. That's just common sense.

If one is thinking of paying 4-10 for a "fake" vintage watch, one really needs to step back and think first. Paying that kind of money is just plain crazy!

 

I agree but like Sfa said, different strokes. There are people that pay $100k for a old penny. I wouldn't but people should be free to dispose of their money as they see fit.

[10:10 Watch Repair 1]

Guys, you're on RWG now. Thicken your skin a little. People talk a little differently down here, it's no big deal.

 

Txcollector you have some fine points. SFA I have respect for you and your opinion about people, but I can't agree with your assessment of VDB that one day 'whoops ran out of parts, maybe I should just sell some rep stuff as gen.'

As far as Joewatch, if he is a stand up and unpretentious guy, he probably regrets his posts here. But personally, I reserve the right to make fun of anyone who posts something like that.

JohnG, come on. You seem like a pretty cool salt of the earth guy, you called a Risti taking photos of himself with cash for a vintage buy a douche...

 

Nothing personal, I don't know any of you. You're all great guys as far as I am concerned, it's just an internet forum.

[bob bean 0]

I don't think spending one's cash on a fake vintage rep is any different to spending large amounts of money on an AC Cobra rep.

You can have as much variety in the build spec as you like (or can afford).

 

As Pat said, "Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks."

 

But to be told the model you have just purchased has a 5.7 hemi v8 and you open the bonnet only to find a glued together '67 VW Beetle 1500 cc OHV H4, well then you gotta be a bit pissed off. The 1967 VW Beetle 1500 cc is a great little engine and runs like a dream, but it's not what you paid for.

 

I think a lot of the guys that have these watches have been over charged excessively. But the lust for these particular style of watches, and the trust in the maker's reputation and board-generated hype, has helped create this market.

And those, like NW, that produce a good quality vintage rep will still sell well.

It is after all a buyers' market. And so I don't think the buyers of these pieces are fools, just lovers of a certain style of watch who may have been misled in order to have them fork out a good chunk of cash, which, at the end of the day, they were willing to spend.

 

 

ps.

 

I am a buyer who likes to spend as little as I can on any rep/replica/fake. I'm cheap.