prestigewatchco 2 Posted March 11, 2009 I had an email the other day from an absolute wet behind the ears Noob. Who had been obviously listening to all the nonesense that gets written. His email went like this "Hello I am a member at---- I want to buy a Panerai 111 with JF case and CG/Super lumed with correct A and Swiss spacing/Flush cannon/Engraved ETA 6497/Sapphire glass" He then went on to qualify his request with " I want the best possible copy" By the way is the 6497 a relaible movement? any idea how long the batteries should last? This is almost verbatim his email. He has obviously been taking notice of all the 1-1 Queens who incidently in 99% of cases don't own such a watch themselves you know the ones they are the ones that tell a guy that has $800 in a near perfect 111 that it's nice but I would buy a LH dial and movement . They of course wouldn't otherwise thay would have the watch they are telling the other guy to make But the Noob will listen and end up with a $99 fake being a $1500 fake The question is Are they buying the watch for themselves or are they buying it with this spec because they have been listening to people and reading without understanding, Personally I think I could have charged this Noob any amount of money and just sent a watch that had $30 worth of mods on it. As it turns out I told him I was unable to supply him. But if he sends enough emails chances are he will be promised his grail watch and in a few weeks you will see the all too common" I have been scammed by------ what should I do?" thread where he has sent an email to an unknown dealer or person come to that and in his desperate search for the grail watch has agreed to buy 'sent money WU or moneygram and when he has received the package realises he has been taken and paid $1000 for a $99 watch. This is of course after the initial euphoria of posting on the forum that he has been successful in getting the unobtainable watch and saying how pleased he himself is with the watch and how it is better than he could ever have imagined. He will then post pictures and even though he is more than satisfied with the watch himself,He will be told by the experts it's not a JF case or the movement looks Asian etc. So the question is do you buy a watch for your own pleasure or do you listen to the experts and buy a watch that you really have no idea about and pay the premium for the upgrades you know nothing about Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted March 11, 2009 Personaly I buy for me. If I wanted a $1000 pam, no worries but it would be because it's what I wanted. Folk are just too anal about what others think. What is it with Pams? Folk seem to be willing to spend any amount on a Pam. I see $500 rep CGs that are no longer made snaped up in mear hours of being listed. FFS, any decent machine shop could turn you one out for half the price for a one off. If I had a propper mill instead of a mill/drill I would be churning the things out as we speak. The prices folk pay for a good Pam are far and away the higest rep prices this side of J&W stuff. And they surpass your avg rep totaly. That guy who has started posting his PPs and VCs at RWG2 can do you a masterwork for far less than folk pay for a simple Pam. WHY? Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prestigewatchco 2 Posted March 11, 2009 What is it with Pams? Folk seem to be willing to spend any amount on a Pam. Well Trail I think the same thing applies to Rolex I read about people putting Gen this and Gen that on their fake watches but you are right it is only a couple of brands that get the people throwing money at them. I have been in this trade for biggest part of 30 years and I have yet to see a Rep I would have mistaken as a Gen regardless of who has modded it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg_r 81 Posted March 11, 2009 "any idea how long the batteries should last?" Hilarious - but I'm sure you're right - a lot of noobs will go that way because of peer pressure and be guided by folks on the boards who are just trying to appear knowledgeable. I can well understand the pleasure that a modder gets from improving his own watch - or even building something from carefully selected parts (something I'd try myself if I had the spare time to dedicate to it), but I must admit that the 1:1 maniacs bug me. My attitude when I started collecting again and became active on the boards was simply to buy something that satisfied myself. I don't really care that much what others think of what I've bought (whether on the boards or in person). So long as I'm happy wearing it, that's really all that matters to me. One of my all-time favourite watches is a $99 Fiddy that I bought from you - I know it's not anywhere near perfect, but it's still a hell of a nice watch and incredible value for money. I could afford to buy a gen (at least I could if I quit buying antiquarian books! lol), but my $99 Fiddy, my $300 111h and my cheapie Rollie DeepSea all satisfy my love of nice watches, so I'm happy Most of us on here tend to point newbies in the direction of one of the better low-end watches to start off with - mebbe a Noobmariner, maybe something else in the same league. Certainly I'd try to persuade anyone starting out that one shouldn't be too ambitious at first. Take time, do some research and start slowly. As you say, it's far too easy to get caught up in the BS and wind up getting ripped off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg_r 81 Posted March 11, 2009 What is it with Pams? Folk seem to be willing to spend any amount on a Pam. Well Trail I think the same thing applies to Rolex I read about people putting Gen this and Gen that on their fake watches but you are right it is only a couple of brands that get the people throwing money at them. I have been in this trade for biggest part of 30 years and I have yet to see a Rep I would have mistaken as a Gen regardless of who has modded it Yup - I can see the modding crowd getting kicks out of building the best watch they can (just for the pleasure of building something unique) - but I really don't see the point on spending a small fortune getting something built for you that, at the end of the day, is still going to be a rep. Lord knows, we all love our fake watches, but a rep is only ever going to be a rep. Why not enjoy them for what they are? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
offshore 0 Posted March 11, 2009 Can't really disagree with the sentiments here, although I must say I have seen a Franken (Rx Sub), which had a valuation cert from an AD, and believe me, I couldn't pick it. Also know of at least one other with a valuation cert, although I haven't actually sighted it. So some Frankens can fool even the best. Offshore Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted March 11, 2009 Pams in particular tho. More folk will spend more on a pam than any other brand. 500 bucks seems to satisfy most Rollie heads (unless you can afford to buy from the afore mentioned J&W) but that's the starting point for an "good enough" Pam. Yet they are a simple enough watch. Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted March 11, 2009 Can't really disagree with the sentiments here, although I must say I have seen a Franken (Rx Sub), which had a valuation cert from an AD, and believe me, I couldn't pick it. Ah yes, but frankens are a whole new ball game. Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prestigewatchco 2 Posted March 11, 2009 Can't really disagree with the sentiments here, although I must say I have seen a Franken (Rx Sub), which had a valuation cert from an AD, and believe me, I couldn't pick it.Also know of at least one other with a valuation cert, although I haven't actually sighted it. So some Frankens can fool even the best. Offshore To build a Sub good enough to fool an AD the person will have spent more than he would be able to buy a Gen 2nd hand one for. Minimum he would have to pay for a movement is $800 Gen dial and hands $500 Gen crown and tube $200 Gen Sapphire $200 Gen band $500 Gen bezel and insert $300 then he would need a case ! So where is the benifit over a used Gen at under $3K? If it was a vintage peice then maybe worth while but parts would be in line with the value and people that buy these tend to know a lot about them so would have to be 1000% right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllergyDoc 40 Posted March 11, 2009 30 years of this? I couldn't take it. It would be like babysitting 2nd graders. I never saw the value in fixing up a PAM other than getting a good strap. I would do the lume, too. Cannon pin? No way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBH 7 Posted March 11, 2009 Hey Robert, Whatcha doing over here. Slumming? By the way, it's "Peer pressure" not "Pier pressure". "Pier pressure" was in another thread about waterproofing a watch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg_r 81 Posted March 11, 2009 Hey Robert, Whatcha doing over here. Slumming? Slumming? Cheeky sod. I'll have you know that I painted the windowsills only last week! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KBH 7 Posted March 11, 2009 Hey, don't clean up too much. You'll ruin the downscale atmosphere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 41 Posted March 11, 2009 The question is Are they buying the watch for themselves or are they buying it with this spec because they have been listening to people and reading without understanding... So the question is do you buy a watch for your own pleasure or do you listen to the experts and buy a watch that you really have no idea about and pay the premium for the upgrades you know nothing about Some people (a LOT of people) come to the boards with a kind of euphoria, having discovered that there are good reps and that many have been modded to be even better... Looks at all the noobs that get huge erections when they learn about "shaved cg's", "recessed inserts" and "WM pearls" for their Subs.... I remember being like that - then I got my SSD in the mail, realized that when on your wrist the pearl doesn't look like it does when it is under an electron microscope... Now, I like a nice rep - good fit and finish, close to gen, but I am hardly going to pay $400 for a gen dial for my SA because the fucking lume dots are a little off.... It's just noob fever. Most go through the 1:1 phase and then mature. Some never do, but look at me - I turned out okay! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg_r 81 Posted March 11, 2009 Hey, don't clean up too much. You'll ruin the downscale atmosphere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFleischer 4,355 Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) personally i don't care what people think. the average person doesn't know much about watches anyway. i try to get a decent out of the box rep. i hardly do any modding. once in awhile i'll send a rollie to BK. i don't get the hoopla about CG's, cannon pins, etc,etc. even frankens are abit crazy- stephane @ RW2 was selling a franken Daytona for almost 7K! a very nice watch but- it will never have the value of a gen. i do have a bunch of gens and can say that the reps never really stack up that well. however to knock around or go to the gym i'll waer the $220 DJ instead of the $5500 gen. Edited March 11, 2009 by NFleischer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luthier 1 Posted March 12, 2009 "any idea how long the batteries should last?" Yeah... He should know, that all these movements require three AA batteries, hidden in the sleeve and connected to the watch via Bluetooth. What's the idiot... About reps. Years ago I was buying reps in GZ stores on famous Beijing Lu, and was very happy with it. When I signed up for RWG first time, I had no any slightest idea about real ETAs in good reps. You, guys, taught me well, and I realized, that 75% of my "great" reps are fantasy watches. So???????? I still keep a few of them. Yes, now I know, what "swan neck" is, and what's the difference between Unitas and ETA, etc, etc. Now I buy only really good reps. Will I ever do any modifications? No way. I'm not 1:1 freak, and completely agree with Greg. Most reps are very good copies of gens, and I'm completely satisfied with most of the reps I bought or will buy. Life is too short to pay serious attention to such a minor things like slightly incorrect font on date wheel. Who da fak cares... I love watches, indeed. Maybe because I love everything mechanical, complicated and precise. Sometimes I'm laughing on myself, reading some horology articles on net up to 6am, but I like it!!! I know, it's only Rock'N'Roll, and I like it!!! I like reps AS IS, I wear it with love and enjoy it. Ofcourse, I'll not buy obvious crap anymore, but nowadays most reps from good dealers are very good quality, no need any modifications. Ofcourse, if someone has nothing more to do... and has a bag of extra money... then God bless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
