epalanb 1 Posted November 23, 2016 Hi Everyone, I am new to this forum but not new to watches and am certainly not new to negotiations. I am no longer a spring chicken, but with that comes some experience. I have hundreds of sales on e-bay, some purchases and sales on Watchuseek and In addition to that back in the day I had a seat on the Philadelphia Stock Exchange (PHLX) This is where the movie Trading Places with Eddie Murphy was filmed. Back then pricing on everything was what they called "Open Outcry." Basically what this meant was that you announced what you were willing so sell something for (a stock or an option) and someone else would shout back what they wanted to pay for that stock or option. There was a lot of shouting back and forth but never a need to personally attack someone for "lowballing". This was to be expected and you just ignored it and moved on if you wanted nothing to do with the bid. The truth of any negotiation is that what something is worth is exactly this "A price that a willing seller and a willing buyer are able to agree upon." If you really think about it everything else is meaningless. Yea, Yea I can hear it already. But I paid $XXXX, I should be able to get $yyyy etc etc. Yes these things may influence what a willing buyer or seller is willing to buy or sell for but think about it. My definition is the best I have ever heard.... Here is the thread that made me post this: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=124313 If you read starting with post # 14 the seller starts to get really nasty with a potential buyer. I personally think this is Totally uncalled for. There is absolutely no written rules anywhere about offering a price that is less than what the seller is asking. I will concede that the seller states in his op that $270 is as low as he can go and don't ask for something less than that. He then goes on and reduces it to $230 and again to $220 and then starts in on someone for offering something less. Eventually a mod comes in and says basically "knock it off" and/or take it to pm. So my question to you is: What do you think about my definition of what something is worth? Does the seller have a right to be personally attacking the buyer? Is this appropriate behavior? What makes a seller think that he has the right to get $XXX when apparently there isn't demand to warrant his price etc? cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg_r 83 Posted November 23, 2016 You're probably overthinking this a little. Pricing is down to deciding what is a reasonable discount from new price dependent on the condition and quality of the watch. Somebody trying to resell for the same price as the dealers sell it - even if it is as new - is taking the mickey. Rarer watches can sometimes fetch more due to rarity value, which is fine, but we do not allow profiteering in general - if someone wants to make a profit selling reps, then they need to do it somewhere else - we won't stand for it here. We don't take much seriously here, but M2M is one of the few areas of the board where we take matters very seriously indeed. If a member sees an obvious problem with a sale, he is entitled (hell, encouraged) to flag it up - preferably by reporting it to a member of staff, but unlike some fora we don't prevent people doing so in the thread if their point is valid. Anyhow, like I said, a read of the M2M rules may give you a better idea of what is and isn't acceptable here. As for fights, well they're often entertaining but not exactly conducive to making a sale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elp 26 Posted November 23, 2016 As G said, the rules are clear. That said, 2 more points from me: a. A little courtesy goes a long way. I ended up selling a watch at a big discount from my sought price with an expensive buckle thrown in to a member who was polite and whom I had a good dialogue with. No harm in asking if one can get it cheaper, worst that can happen is a simple no, basis of negotiation. b. More than the watch, you are buying the seller / buyer as the transaction is between 2 individuals with a lot of potential for shit to go wrong. If you get bad vibes, walk away. From the thread linked, I wouldn't touch the seller with a bargepole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
epalanb 1 Posted November 23, 2016 You're probably overthinking this a little. Pricing is down to deciding what is a reasonable discount from new price dependent on the condition and quality of the watch. If you really think about it, your statement above completely is captured by my definition of the "worth" of something. If someone pays more for something then they are going to want more for it when selling it. If it is in better condition they will want more than if it is not working etc. I stand by my definition of what something is worth: "A price that a willing seller and a willing buyer are able to agree upon." as it captures just about everything. In the post that I referenced the only problem is that the seller and the buyer were not able to agree upon price. No big deal and they should BOTH be big enough to realize that it really isn't all that big of a deal. Just move on or adjust your expectations etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dfq23 131 Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) THE RWG.BZ WAY FOR PRICING Person A is selling an item for $200 as that is what they paid out in total and wants that back NET so ends up costing even more Person B knows that get exactly the same item can be had for $100, or that seller is factoring in things like postage to bump the price up Here it is the duty of Person B to make sure other members don't get taken for a ride by stating this. Person A may take it like a man, which means they will fit in well here, or throw his toys out of their pram so he then becomes a forum chew toy THE RWI/GEEK/RWG.CC WAY FOR PRICING Person A is selling an item for $200 as that is what they paid out in total and wants that back NET so ends up costing even more Person B knows that get exactly the same item can be had for $100 or that the seller is factoring in things like postage to bump the price up Person B does eff all and Persons C, D, E and F post things like "lovely piece" "GLWS" "Oh if this was in the EU" "Wow always wanted one of these" "That's a great price!" To bump up their post count Person A finally sells item to some poor noob who knows no better because they fall for the inane comments of the post whores and think they got a deal. As for lowballers. Offer within about ten percent of asking price, negotiate or refuse politely. As is more likely offer saying: "I give you (insert stupid price) with shipping to (insert random country) it good price you take" I see no harm in telling them to fuck off and perhaps name. Which then means they usually go on your thread and slag your watch off. Had this myself with a twat called firnatine who is still active elsewhere but got booted from here Edited November 23, 2016 by dfq23 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narikaa 129 Posted November 23, 2016 Just read the thread Squealing about lowballs when inflicting self harm to your 'firm' price for God's sake! Someone with the self imposed nom de plume of 'elvis presley' derides others 'maturity' Stuff of the Twilight Zone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dfq23 131 Posted November 23, 2016 Just read the thread Squealing about lowballs when inflicting self harm to your 'firm' price for God's sake! Someone with the self imposed nom de plume of 'elvis presley' derides others 'maturity' Stuff of the Twilight Zone I made my judgement on it all as soon as I saw the word "cussing" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomtom1988 64 Posted November 23, 2016 Just don't try and sell for a profit. Eg: you bought it for 200, wore if for a few months, it's in 8/10 condition Flip if for like 170-180 The spirit of this place is too look after one and other, be that with scams, deals or used watches from m2m Basically if you price it too high someone will politely let you know lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
epalanb 1 Posted November 23, 2016 I get this: Just don't try and sell for a profit. and this: The spirit of this place is too look after one and other....... These things I think are good and make a lot of sense. I just think that a) a seller that has 1600 posts should know way better than to puke on a newbie with only 13 posts about being a lowlife, lowballer, curse, curse etc. Furthermore, if someone wants to make a lowball offer what harm is there in this and why does anyone who is a seller have the right to get all pissy about it? Seller certainly has the right to say no, or even just not respond I guess. Sort of unfriendly way of handling it if you ask me, but what ever. A simple 'No I am not interested" would suffice too. Pretty unfriendly way of welcoming a newcomer if you ask me though..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deju 1,889 Posted November 23, 2016 Like everything in life the market dictates the price. Lifes too short for all the abuse in that thread over a bloody watch.... FFS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSJ 0 Posted November 23, 2016 I posted in that thread in support of the watch and price, not because I was postwhoring but because I meant what I said. I also thought it might bring the thread back to some semblance of normality. That was clearly where I misjudged the protagonists. As for the price, it's a function of the whole deal. That watch seems a bargain for the money but there was an error of judgment from the seller which seems to have killed the thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onzenuub 309 Posted November 23, 2016 The right price to ask would be 2 x 0.5 and good weather. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purger72 0 Posted November 24, 2016 There is to many insults happening here , especially in M2M section. I think that online bullying with words like Retard,idiot,C word, F word, imbecile. ....so on should well and truly be FORBIDDEN Its a simple thing you dont like offer just decline.. You think is expensive move on and look else for bargain. ... Rude and abusive replys should be sanctioned and member warned. ....plain and simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 997 Posted November 24, 2016 THE RWG.BZ WAY FOR PRICING Person A is selling an item for $200 as that is what they paid out in total and wants that back NET so ends up costing even more Person B knows that get exactly the same item can be had for $100, or that seller is factoring in things like postage to bump the price up Here it is the duty of Person B to make sure other members don't get taken for a ride by stating this. Person A may take it like a man, which means they will fit in well here, or throw his toys out of their pram so he then becomes a forum chew toy THE RWI/GEEK/RWG.CC WAY FOR PRICING Person A is selling an item for $200 as that is what they paid out in total and wants that back NET so ends up costing even more Person B knows that get exactly the same item can be had for $100 or that the seller is factoring in things like postage to bump the price up Person B does eff all and Persons C, D, E and F post things like "lovely piece" "GLWS" "Oh if this was in the EU" "Wow always wanted one of these" "That's a great price!" To bump up their post count Person A finally sells item to some poor noob who knows no better because they fall for the inane comments of the post whores and think they got a deal. As for lowballers. Offer within about ten percent of asking price, negotiate or refuse politely. As is more likely offer saying: "I give you (insert stupid price) with shipping to (insert random country) it good price you take" I see no harm in telling them to fuck off and perhaps name. Which then means they usually go on your thread and slag your watch off. Had this myself with a twat called firnatine who is still active elsewhere but got booted from here Excuse me? That's bullshit and you know it, blatant profiteering is not permissible at RWI any more than it is here. Members can, will and do speak up in such cases. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rawbaws 91 Posted November 24, 2016 There is to many insults happening here , especially in M2M section. I think that online bullying with words like Retard,idiot,C word, F word, imbecile. ....so on should well and truly be FORBIDDEN Its a simple thing you dont like offer just decline.. You think is expensive move on and look else for bargain. ... Rude and abusive replys should be sanctioned and member warned. ....plain and simple. Where would the fun be in that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mazz 62 Posted November 24, 2016 There is to many insults happening here , especially in M2M section. I think that online bullying with words like Retard,idiot,C word, F word, imbecile. ....so on should well and truly be FORBIDDEN Its a simple thing you dont like offer just decline.. You think is expensive move on and look else for bargain. ... Rude and abusive replys should be sanctioned and member warned. ....plain and simple. Uh I think your confusing us with that other RWG aka the knitting cicrcle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
codystern 22 Posted November 24, 2016 I have a terrible watch purchasing addiction and at one point my collection ballooned to almost 70 pieces. There is not doubt that there is less money out in the world these days but i still think that a 20% discount is fair for a catch and release piece and have had luck with this in the past. Although these days the discounts seem to have to be deeper to get something to actually sell. In the end its about passing the watch on to someone else to enjoy it once you've had your time with it. As long as you agree on a fair price and no one is profiteering I think its still a great way to be able to experience the feel of watches that you would maybe never be able to justify shelling out Gen money for. One of my favorite watches (that I don't think I'd ever part with) was a modded piece from a member here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dfq23 131 Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) THE RWG.BZ WAY FOR PRICING Person A is selling an item for $200 as that is what they paid out in total and wants that back NET so ends up costing even more Person B knows that get exactly the same item can be had for $100, or that seller is factoring in things like postage to bump the price up Here it is the duty of Person B to make sure other members don't get taken for a ride by stating this. Person A may take it like a man, which means they will fit in well here, or throw his toys out of their pram so he then becomes a forum chew toy THE RWI/GEEK/RWG.CC WAY FOR PRICING Person A is selling an item for $200 as that is what they paid out in total and wants that back NET so ends up costing even more Person B knows that get exactly the same item can be had for $100 or that the seller is factoring in things like postage to bump the price up Person B does eff all and Persons C, D, E and F post things like "lovely piece" "GLWS" "Oh if this was in the EU" "Wow always wanted one of these" "That's a great price!" To bump up their post count Person A finally sells item to some poor noob who knows no better because they fall for the inane comments of the post whores and think they got a deal. As for lowballers. Offer within about ten percent of asking price, negotiate or refuse politely. As is more likely offer saying: "I give you (insert stupid price) with shipping to (insert random country) it good price you take" I see no harm in telling them to fuck off and perhaps name. Which then means they usually go on your thread and slag your watch off. Had this myself with a twat called firnatine who is still active elsewhere but got booted from here Excuse me? That's bullshit and you know it, blatant profiteering is not permissible at RWI any more than it is here. Members can, will and do speak up in such cases. I know your mods do good work over there and are shit hot when it comes to picking up things being mis-represented or in some cases totally dodgy (I remember a rolex someone listed but they had just used pics from a previous sale and never even had the watch) but it's not just blatant profiteering i'm on about but also making sure people don't over pay, like the three omega one this week. The one experience I had with pointing out a watch was available for a hell of a lot cheaper elsewhere was a seller was selling a nearly a year old watch for pretty much what it cost him near enough the same day that a TD next door dropped the price by about $180 on a special and another TD had it for about $100 less. There were the usual comments on it you get on every sale and as the seller was a big noise on that particular brands sub forum people bought the spiel. I pointed out that the exact same watch, brand new and with warranty was available for a lot less, but it was left to stand as it was considered not "profiteering"and people moaned about how dare I thread crap a sale. As like with the omega thread not everyone knows that they are cheaper elsewhere so what is to stop a seller selling the used watch and re-buying at a much lower price and making a nice profit? Profiteering? Perhaps technically not. A bit sly and not in the best spirit of the forums? Perhaps Prices at all the ether forums do seem higher on m2m than here though. Case in point the LW I got last week. I paid £120 delivered and was in mint condition. Wasn't my style and as I had one watch already up here I listed it next door at the same price. Went in seconds and had loads of email. Same was also listed by someone else there for $300 and I think Toro now has em new for $268 Edited November 24, 2016 by dfq23 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elp 26 Posted November 24, 2016 Like everything in life the market dictates the price. Lifes too short for all the abuse in that thread over a bloody watch.... FFS! and it continues .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dfq23 131 Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) Like everything in life the market dictates the price. Lifes too short for all the abuse in that thread over a bloody watch.... FFS! and it continues .... I see he is starting on Stu now. Not his smartest move Edited November 24, 2016 by dfq23 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deju 1,889 Posted November 24, 2016 Like everything in life the market dictates the price. Lifes too short for all the abuse in that thread over a bloody watch.... FFS! and it continues .... I see he is starting on Stu now. Not his smartest move Link? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadPickle 2,802 Posted November 24, 2016 Like everything in life the market dictates the price. Lifes too short for all the abuse in that thread over a bloody watch.... FFS! and it continues .... I see he is starting on Stu now. Not his smartest move Link? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro He's trying to get in my backdoors via PM, if it wasn't so desperately pathetic............ :Yawn: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James. 4 Posted November 24, 2016 "Worth" is often incredibly subjective Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
