My StoneP Build (updated 5/27)

[Genius 281]

Seriously though a lot of folk swap out dials for gaudy aftermarket paved and pearl atrocities. People replace worn bracelets and crowns bezels etc, and like Dave mentioned some strip them for parts

[Mattcrx 8]

This is gorgeous!!!

[SuperbMonster 4]

Seriously though a lot of folk swap out dials for gaudy aftermarket paved and pearl atrocities. People replace worn bracelets and crowns bezels etc, and like Dave mentioned some strip them for parts

So you are saying there are enough numpties swapping out parts of there gen rolex watches to fuel a whole franken market? And a large amount end up on StoneP's desk?

 

Hmmmmm.......

[Genius 281]

Just look at eBay loads of Rolex parts, some are even gen

[Diver Dave 0]

Out of curiosity, where does the supply of gen parts come from?

 

 

China.... ;-)

 

Genuine "There's a sucker born every minute" parts.

 

Genuine service parts like crowns, tubes, crystals, hands, etc are all cheap and available. They are things that are replaced as a matter of course for overhauls. I had my 1665 overhauled with a new tube, crown, and hands (to get my lume back) and the genuine Rolex parts that were supplied by my independent Rolex repair guy were remarkably cheap. And I got all of the old parts back. Guess what? There's a ready market for removed service parts. I can sell the used crown, tube, and hands for MORE than the new replacements cost, to people who don't understand that these are just service parts.

 

Cases & backs & dials on the other hand.... not so much. Genuine dials are more closely controlled by Rolex, and backs and cases are only available as service items when installed by Rolex directly. As I said, before, for Frankens they are either counterfeit (and I call them that as they are being passed off as genuine, not honestly represented as a rep) or are left overs from less desirable watches that are being bought for their movements so that counterfeit (in the same sense) watches of higher value can be constructed using Chinese cases and genuine movements. Take a shitty old datejust, pull the movement, and build a vintage Sub and you've made a weeks pay. What are you gonna do with the leftover case and dial? Easy: Find some fool to accept it with a shitty Chinese movement as a "franken-watch" and get it outta here...

Edited May 27, 2017 by Diver Dave

[childishthing 1]

Just popped in to update my post with a couple more photos...

 

 

...carry on...

[BadPickle 2,747]

My gen cost me 2k, but it's still worth 2k and it'll be worth 2k plus inflation when I pass it onto my son. That's the reason I dumped my franken and went gen. Honestly, the $300 reps are as good as the franken watches (and don't have the obvious short hands tell) but each to their own.

 

Short hands tell?

 

 

Yours does indeed have the right hands. I've handled this one; it's really nice.

 

 

So the hour hand just touches the "train track" to be correct length?? that's a nice touch, I wouldn't spot that before you mentioned it. So at the price the op is spending you'd expect that level of detail.

[dirkhunt 0]

Minute hand

 

My gen cost me 2k, but it's still worth 2k and it'll be worth 2k plus inflation when I pass it onto my son. That's the reason I dumped my franken and went gen. Honestly, the $300 reps are as good as the franken watches (and don't have the obvious short hands tell) but each to their own.

 

Short hands tell?

 

 

Yours does indeed have the right hands. I've handled this one; it's really nice.

 

 

So the hour hand just touches the "train track" to be correct length?? that's a nice touch, I wouldn't spot that before you mentioned it. So at the price the op is spending you'd expect that level of detail.

[MetalMickey 179]

 

So the hour hand just touches the "train track" to be correct length?? that's a nice touch, I wouldn't spot that before you mentioned it. So at the price the op is spending you'd expect that level of detail.

 

Yeah. When the franken build says "gen Tudor hands" they are off the Tudor Prince Date Day which has a 34mm case, so the hands fall about 1/2mm short. If the hands are the corrrect length then they are rep hands, but look far better.

 

Franken: you can see a bit of the marker as the hand passes over

 

 

Gen: hands reach the edge of the markers exactly

[BadPickle 2,747]

Minute hand

 

 

You are indeed quite correct there, my mind was still a little fuzzy from last nights alcohol intake

[BadPickle 2,747]

 

So the hour hand just touches the "train track" to be correct length?? that's a nice touch, I wouldn't spot that before you mentioned it. So at the price the op is spending you'd expect that level of detail.

 

Yeah. When the franken build says "gen Tudor hands" they are off the Tudor Prince Date Day which has a 34mm case, so the hands fall about 1/2mm short. If the hands are the corrrect length then they are rep hands, but look far better.

 

Franken: you can see a bit of the marker as the hand passes over

 

 

Gen: hands reach the edge of the markers exactly

 

 

Good info MM.... the devil is in the detail

[Moondustesp 136]

Hands on mine look good to me?

[Genius 281]

Hands on mine look good to me?

Looks good to me too

[Moondustesp 136]

MM was making me paranoid :) :) :)

[MetalMickey 179]

MM was making me paranoid :) :) :)

 

I have that effect on people :)

[gamba66 0]

 

Never actually seen a stoneP build in person but hes gotta be better than matt mine had fingerprints on the hands and a pube on one of the indexes on the gen dial FFS

 

I have heard of this complaint quite often in regards to mmm AND stonep builds..

 

I wanted one of them to build one for me too but ultimately decided against it when I came across the source of their parts, also kown as riyi02 on ebay(for their 5-digit Datejust and Daydate builds, also parts such as Overlaywheels, hands, crowns, movement rings... etc..) In their own sales threads they relabel these rep parts as SP or MMM Part for some reason.. They also build 6-digit Datejusts with similiar cases as the ones sold from trustytime(which have incorrect lugs as they are recessed into the case on gen and flush with the case on their builds, not sure of the factory, quality is ok but bp is better)

 

I wanted a daydate 18239 because I love the president bracelet mainly. But before spending so much money I researched, examined and compared pictures closely and contacted many previous franken owners who ended up selling their franken build 5-digit daydates m2m, that provided me with information why they werent happy with the builds.

 

Biggest issue is the daydate case from rafflesdials has lugs that resemble a datejust case (way too long and wide apart) and the bracelet endlinks have a gap of atleast 1mm and rattle around. Not a good issue especially if you are trying to replicate a luxury watch. The case just looks wrong. Besides being from a smaller unknown rep factory these bracelets and cases aren't of great quality.

 

The raffles datejust cases are quite good though, so if you really want a franken opt for a 5-digit datejust as these are the closest to gen. The 6-digit datejust cases are not that good, also its quite impossible to find a genuine fluted bezel for that.

 

The rhodium or gold coated fluted bezels used in these builds are probably from startimesupplies (also available on ebay as replacement fluted bezels) as they have the same dimensions (and are way off from gen..)

 

Here some comparison pictures between gen and their daydate builds.

 

 

Gen Daydates

 

 

 

Franken Daydates MMM/StoneP

 

 

https://www.replica-...87baa300219aad9

http://i1023.photobu....jpg%7Eoriginal

<script type="text/javascript">window.onbeforeunload = function() {}</script><script type="text/javascript">window.onbeforeunload = function() {}</script>

 

btw if anyone has more questions regarding this topic feel free to ask openly or in pm.

 

I could post more links and information (and sources) but I didnt want this post to be too long.

Edited May 31, 2017 by gamba66

[Genius 281]

those president bracelets do look awful! Although the riyi bracelet I have is bloody good quality and even though its only gold wrapped and not actual gold links its really hard to tell it apart from gen

[gamba66 0]

those president bracelets do look awful! Although the riyi bracelet I have is bloody good quality and even though its only gold wrapped and not actual gold links its really hard to tell it apart from gen

its not the bracelet, its the case.. I have been researching this quite a while and I also thought it maybe the endlink that has the wrong dimensions.

 

Its the case lugs.

 

But in their defense, there just arent any better daydate cases available for 5-digit builds, so they are using what they can

 

Also in regards to the question of sourcing the gen parts. These are very hard to find but there are only a few sources where everyone is able to get them, it just takes time and research to find these. Besides ebay there are a couple of websites specialiced in selling rolex spare parts such as dials, crown etc.

 

BTW the rhodium or gold coated bezels they use arent anything like gen.. pretty large actually.. While the gen bezel is 2.23mm tall the rep bezels they use are 2.75mm tall, which may not sound like much but with such a small part like that it looks totally different in form and dimension..

 

Since the datejust uses the same bezel as the 5 digit daydate this goes for all their dj builds too.

 

REP (the ones stonep and matt use)

 

 

GEN

Edited May 31, 2017 by gamba66

[Sifu Whitey 53]

StoneP is the real deal and I love, love, love the DD I got from him. It's only in the M2M section because it's been worn once. He's a Rollie wiz though!

 

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=130275

 

[gamba66 0]

StoneP is the real deal and I love, love, love the DD I got from him. It's only in the M2M section because it's been worn once. He's a Rollie wiz though!

 

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=130275

 

 

Your daydate uses the same raffles case, fluted bezel and bracelet. And from your picture its clear the lugs are too long and wide apart and the bezel is off too. Everybody is extremely analytical when it comes to submariners but when a daydate case is nothing like gen, people pay 900 dollar for that rep with an asian eta? And you are selling it?

 

Case including fluted bezel http://rafflesdials.com/rolex-signed-vintage-style-of-36mm-gold-alloy-plated-golden-day-date-watch-case-with-fluted-bezel-and-20mm-lugs-size-fit-eta-2836-movement/

 

Bracelet http://rafflesdials.com/20mm-signed-stainless-steel-golden-president-watch-band-bracelet-strap-flat-end-pieces-for-vintage-36mm-rolex-gold-day-date-watch/

 

In the rep world you always have to accept certain flaws but for me personally, at that pricepoint, that would be way too far off from gen for me. This is just my objective view, if you are willing to accept these flaws or simply dont care about it being close to gen you can be happy with the build. I believe in transparency and that one should know what he is getting exactly. If you follow my links, you can see for yourself.

 

Its nice to have a gen dial but anyone who ever saw a gen 18238 will be able to tell its a rep immediately besides the obvious weight difference when holding it..

 

The raffles case also use gold plating that isnt thicker than 5 microns (0,005 millimetre, The case only cost 50 dollars, including caseback, movement ring, crown and sapphire xtal), thats why gold wouldnt be my first choice, since it will wear off at some point. Another point is, is that the gold color is way off from 18k and much less yellow because of the modern plating technique used, it looks more like 14k or even 10k gold but in direct comparison to gen the color would be very different and less yellow

 

If you want an example of a better rep, even without gen dial, (which is not available anymore unfortunately) check thid thread out https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/the-rarest-of-all-reps-the-triple-wrapped-gold-tw-best-day-date-president.216362/

Edited June 1, 2017 by gamba66

[BadPickle 2,747]

In many ways these builder are pulling the wool over the eyes of their customers. As we all know the Chinese are remarkably good at recreating pretty much anything at a fraction of a cost when compared to the genuine article, and I'm not just talking about watches here. So unless you have the real deal in one hand and the fake in the other, I would estimate that 99.9% of people would not be able to tell the difference with the high end stuff, and the other 0.1% are either bullshitters or in it for the profit.

 

 

[Genius 281]

In many ways these builder are pulling the wool over the eyes of their customers. As we all know the Chinese are remarkably good at recreating pretty much anything at a fraction of a cost when compared to the genuine article, and I'm not just talking about watches here. So unless you have the real deal in one hand and the fake in the other, I would estimate that 99.9% of people would not be able to tell the difference with the high end stuff, and the other 0.1% are either bullshitters or in it for the profit.

 

Obviously they are doing it for a profit, you aint gonna set up a franken production line in your toilet unless it was gonna bring a decent return.

[gamba66 0]

Yes but that doesnt change the fact that these particular builds are not accurate at all to a genuine daydate and that for nearly 1k.

 

Following your explanation comparing fake watches to gen you might as well wear canal street reps or sub 150 usd reps because most people are not going to be able to tell the difference anyways, if that is your main motivation. Personally I go after my own judgement and passion and not of that from most other people, which are clueless anyways..

 

Justifying spending that amount of money by saying people wont be able to tell the difference seems pretty ignorant but in the end its your own money being spent..

 

 

[MetalMickey 179]

So unless you have the real deal in one hand and the fake in the other, I would estimate that 99.9% of people would not be able to tell the difference with the high end stuff, and the other 0.1% are either bullshitters or in it for the profit.

 

Having handled reps, frankens and the real deal, the top rep Datejusts look more accurate to gen than the majority of Franken builds. Even if the franken watch is entirely made from gen parts with a 2824 in it, the hands will either be too short or reps. The rep hands look better, but for the money you may as well buy a decent full rep for a tenth of the cost.

 

For the price of a full-set Franken made of gen parts, you are not far off buying a gen DJ - which will of course be fucked, but not as fucked as the watches that were only good enough to be disassembled and sold as parts to make the franken in the first place... :)

[gamba66 0]

So unless you have the real deal in one hand and the fake in the other, I would estimate that 99.9% of people would not be able to tell the difference with the high end stuff, and the other 0.1% are either bullshitters or in it for the profit.

 

Having handled reps, frankens and the real deal, the top rep Datejusts look more accurate to gen than the majority of Franken builds. Even if the franken watch is entirely made from gen parts with a 2824 in it, the hands will either be too short or reps. The rep hands look better, but for the money you may as well buy a decent full rep for a tenth of the cost.

 

For the price of a full-set Franken made of gen parts, you are not far off buying a gen DJ - which will of course be fucked, but not as fucked as the watches that were only good enough to be disassembled and sold as parts to make the franken in the first place... :)

 

The franken datejusts from these are better (also raffles cases and bracelets) but the daydates arent that good and people have been selling these claiming the rep bezels used are 1:1 and marketing **** like that..

 

And I agree with your statement, the reps from the big factories such as bp are far superior in quality and accuracy to gen than any of the cases or bracelets used in these franken builds (especially the bracelets are lacking from raffles), no matter if its a 5 or 6 digit build or datejust or daydate

 

Fact is the parts used in these builds are from some small unkown maker... What can you expect when the case complete with sapphire xtal, movement ring and crown is being sold for 50 dollar and the bracelet for 20 dollar plus an asian eta for 75, what quality can one expect of these parts when someone is still making a profit selling these parts at such a price

 

People think that when a gen dial is used the whole watch is suddenly gen despite having more flaws than any of the reps from the big factories.

 

For good 5 digit replicas such as datejusts, silix sells some pretty nice ones including the dials, which wont have to be replaced with gen or frankened

Edited June 1, 2017 by gamba66