General, controversial thoughts about reps and gens

[Diver Dave 0]

A bit long winded but what do you care if someone that works at a desk wears a tool watch and how do you know what their career was before that? Some of this is definitely a bit snobby

 

 

I guess I measure the man by accomplishment, and not by the watch he's wearing. And the men I admire as peers are most likely a 60 year old grey haired helicopter pilot I meet at the lobby when we're picking up our passengers: He's wearing a faded GMT, and when asked where he bought it he tells me "In the PX in Danang", and there's another hundred stories to share.

 

When I worked offshore I saw a lot of the deck riggers and drillers wearing Rolex Datejusts, as they were the rugged "cheap" watch that worked while having the shit beaten our of them. When I see a grey haired old man on a Harley riding up to my local watering hole wearing a beat up old Rolex, and I ask him where he bought it and he says "Morgan City, Louisian, '75", I know he's my brother.

 

When I was working on the Ixtoc 1 oil rig blowout down in the Bay of Campeche, the guys from "Boots & Coots" (Oil well blowout and fire specialists) all wore their *company issued* Gold Rolex Datejusts. Why? To tell the world that the pros were there, in red jumpsuits and gold watches. You want the best? Pay 'em and they would put out your little fire. See the pic? I was there. Along with probably 100 Rolex watches worn by nearly everyone. Boots & Coots was a spinoff from Red Adair's company. Gold Rolex watches were part of their uniform.

 

I've never held a job in my life where I wouldn't be killed if I made a mistake. I've dived to over 1000 feet, flown supersonic in a fighter more times than I can count, and have stood at the geographic south pole. The men I have known thru my career have often worn Rolex watches because they were the best tool available for when you needed your tool to work, with 100% reliability, every single day for years. *We* are the people who made the reputation of Rolex. Yep: That includes *me*. So I'm not all that impressed with effete city dwellers who obsess over the first scratch they have gotten on their fancy green Submariner, that's never seen a swimming pool, and I'm a bit bemused that our current generation of real men can't afford the same tool that the prior generation of real men wore, and who build the brand reputation while doing so.

 

 

So yeah...so what? Want respect? Earn it. You'll need to do better than being a desk-diver.

 

Wearing a green Sub (Gen or Rep) ain't gonna do it.

 

 

 

 

 

Dave

 

"Pilots: Looking down on others since 1906"

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Diver Dave

[By-Tor 0]

 

Yeah stainless steel Rolex looks much better and more handsome with some scratches on it. They're tool watches.

 

I had my gen 16710 serviced and they took the scratches off. I was like "why the hell did you remove then"? They were my hard-earned scratches.

 

Now THIS is a Sea-Dweller.

 

 

[Diver Dave 0]

Hey RandomGuy. Same issue for me too. The old Ebel Chronographs have certain "vintage charm" and that 36.600 bph El Primero is a masterpiece. But yes... they are too small, unfortunately. At least for a bigger guy like me. That's why they're so cheap. If they were 42mm you wouldn't get them for $2K. That's the market right now... for ALL watches.

 

 

 

 

Perfect however for robbing the movements out of to build a better watch.

 

Daytona homages anyone? Using a real Zenith movement?

[By-Tor 0]

Daytona (as a watch) never impressed me one bit. I had the rep and one of my friends own a white gen. I see it frequently. I understand the history and respect the new inhouse movement but visually... where's the catch? I just don't get it. Super BORING watch and wears extremely small on a big man's wrist. But that's just cool... we don't have to love the same watches and agree on everything. It'd be quite boring world that way.

[Diver Dave 0]

 

Yeah stainless steel Rolex looks much better and more handsome with some scratches on it. They're tool watches.

 

I had my gen 16710 serviced and they took the scratches off. I was like "why the hell did you remove then"? They were my hard-earned scratches.

 

Now THIS is a Sea-Dweller.

 

 

 

 

 

Shit, that thing's just a baby....

 

I'll shoot some good ones of my 1665 and my GMT later to share.

 

Funny story about the GMT (a sold gold 1675 made in the early 60's): "One day I crashed an airplane" and ended up being helo medivacked to a trauma center where spent the best part of a month being put back together (and about a year learning to walk again). The other two guys did't make it. It was not a good day of flying....

 

In any event after a week or so I asked the nurses where my watch had gotten off to. They went into my personal effects bag, dragged it out, and handed it to me. it looked like it was covered with brown paint, meat chunks, and hair... which was blood and brain and hair from the guy who was decapitated next to me in the airplane (I'm not making this up). So they scrubbed it off and gave it to me. I wound it up, and it ran for a day and quit. "OK", says me. "I'm not moving my wrist enough to wind it". So I wind it again by hand and wear it. Another day goes buy and it stops again, So I take it off and look at the back, and find that it has been dented in by being wrapped around the bone on the left side of my left wrist, and the rotor won't turn. So I hand wind it for a month or so. No I want you to take your watch, slide it onto the bone on your wrist, and slam your hand down on a table hard enough to wrap the back around your bone (gold is softer than steel so...). In any event it later went to Rolex for fixing, and they hammered out the back for free with a note of thanks for sharing the story with them.

 

This is no BS. Absolute true story. The back is still dented.

 

If anyone wants to impress me with a desk diver, you've got a really really long road to walk.....

 

And if you want to give me a hard time for being a "snob" you're barking up the wrong tree.

If you can't run with the big dogs, you better stay on the porch.

 

 

.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Diver Dave

[Diver Dave 0]

Daytona (as a watch) never impressed me one bit. I had the rep and one of my friends own a white gen. I see it frequently. I understand the history and respect the new inhouse movement but visually... where's the catch? I just don't get it. Super BORING watch and wears extremely small on a big man's wrist. But that's just cool... we don't have to love the same watches and agree on everything. It'd be quite boring world that way.

 

 

Yeah, I had one and traded it for the GMT about which the story above ^^ is recited. it was used and never ran correctly.

[diarrheamouth 1]

the most stupid day of my life was the day i sold my COMEX sub. fuck, i even worked for COMEX and threw in all types of memorabilia. great price usd 65... but toooo many memories down the bowl.

[RandomGuy 0]

Hey RandomGuy. Same issue for me too. The old Ebel Chronographs have certain "vintage charm" and that 36.600 bph El Primero is a masterpiece. But yes... they are too small, unfortunately. At least for a bigger guy like me. That's why they're so cheap. If they were 42mm you wouldn't get them for $2K. That's the market right now... for ALL watches.

 

This is probably the model you're referring to?

 

https://monochrome-w...ic-chronograph/

 

The model I'm looking at is the gold & silver, and this is the blog that got me interested in it:

 

https://www.fratellowatches.com/ebel-1911-btr-chronograph-interesting-but-rarely-seen/

 

Been wanting a 36k movement for some time, and got a couple of vintage Lord Marvels. I've got small wrists and can almost pull off a 36, but it usually looks like I grabbed my wife's watch by mistake. A 38mm Chrono with less empty space will probably look too small too.

 

Respect to Diver Dave. Last time I responded to one of your posts, I mistakenly had the impression you were a hedge fund manager. Called that one way wrong, and I agree with his post, which is why I've never been a Rollie guy. (But the 2016 Explorer has me retginking that. Maybe the Rolex with the lowest douche-factor.)

[Undinist 21]

This is a great thread. Some years back I bought some nice gens: a Sub with a date, a Panerai ti hobnail Submersible, an IWC Doppelchrono and a Bell & Ross Hydromax. At the back of my mind I was always wondering "why am I doing this?" They were all great looking pieces of design, but as methods of telling the time they were ridiculously expensive. (OK, so maybe the engineering of the Hydromax is worth the £2k RRP - it can run at the bottom of the Marianas Trench, several years before the DeepSea Challenge managed it. And it's a small, wearable watch - you can fit 4.5 Hydromaxes inside a Challenge. If only I had a trip to the Trench coming up.)

 

So anyway, I discovered this forum recently and am waiting for my first rep to arrive - a sensible platinum Day-Date with a blue face and a smooth bezel. £280 for a Noob 1:1. I'm really looking forward to wearing it. If I'd paid 40 grand for a gen I think I'd be a lot less happy.

 

My Day-Date: http://kuvarsit01.co...5-best-edition/

[By-Tor 0]

Hey RandomGuy. Same issue for me too. The old Ebel Chronographs have certain "vintage charm" and that 36.600 bph El Primero is a masterpiece. But yes... they are too small, unfortunately. At least for a bigger guy like me. That's why they're so cheap. If they were 42mm you wouldn't get them for $2K. That's the market right now... for ALL watches.

 

This is probably the model you're referring to?

 

https://monochrome-w...ic-chronograph/

 

The model I'm looking at is the gold & silver, and this is the blog that got me interested in it:

 

https://www.fratello...ut-rarely-seen/

 

Been wanting a 36k movement for some time, and got a couple of vintage Lord Marvels. I've got small wrists and can almost pull off a 36, but it usually looks like I grabbed my wife's watch by mistake. A 38mm Chrono with less empty space will probably look too small too.

 

Respect to Diver Dave. Last time I responded to one of your posts, I mistakenly had the impression you were a hedge fund manager. Called that one way wrong, and I agree with his post, which is why I've never been a Rollie guy. (But the 2016 Explorer has me retginking that. Maybe the Rolex with the lowest douche-factor.)

 

Are you sure that newer version isn't bigger?

 

And is it really still with El Primero? I think Ebel changed to "Modulor"-movements at some point with these new designs. If I remember correctly the Modulor was based on Lemania. Don't quote me on this though.

 

I had a SS quartz rep of this. And it was 40mm if I remember correctly. This is the watch that might be on DJ's wrist in your link. I believe it was no longer with ELP-movement. Or is it still the same subdial spacing? Experts chime in.

 

[RandomGuy 0]

Hey RandomGuy. Same issue for me too. The old Ebel Chronographs have certain "vintage charm" and that 36.600 bph El Primero is a masterpiece. But yes... they are too small, unfortunately. At least for a bigger guy like me. That's why they're so cheap. If they were 42mm you wouldn't get them for $2K. That's the market right now... for ALL watches.

 

This is probably the model you're referring to?

 

https://monochrome-w...ic-chronograph/

 

The model I'm looking at is the gold & silver, and this is the blog that got me interested in it:

 

https://www.fratello...ut-rarely-seen/

 

Been wanting a 36k movement for some time, and got a couple of vintage Lord Marvels. I've got small wrists and can almost pull off a 36, but it usually looks like I grabbed my wife's watch by mistake. A 38mm Chrono with less empty space will probably look too small too.

 

Respect to Diver Dave. Last time I responded to one of your posts, I mistakenly had the impression you were a hedge fund manager. Called that one way wrong, and I agree with his post, which is why I've never been a Rollie guy. (But the 2016 Explorer has me retginking that. Maybe the Rolex with the lowest douche-factor.)

 

Are you sure that newer version isn't bigger?

 

And is it really still with El Primero? I think Ebel changed to "Modulor"-movements at some point with these new designs. If I remember correctly the Modulor was based on Lemania. Don't quote me on this though.

 

I had a SS quartz rep of this. And it was 40mm if I remember correctly. This is the watch that might be on DJ's wrist in your link. I believe it was no longer with ELP-movement. Or is it still the same subdial spacing? Experts chime in.

 

 

 

That's it, but I think the one DJ wore has the "wave" band. I'm no expert, but from what I've read Ebel phased out the ELP in the late 90s to create its own in house 1911 at 28.8. The reference # I've been searching (1134901) usually pops up with 38mm size, although a few have said it's a 40mm (which I'd go for). Often sold on non-Ebel leather bands, so I might have to get the vintage band separately.

 

Of course, not everyone's a fan:

http://www.askmen.com/fashion/mens-watches/556_watch-snob-ebel-watches.html

 

Anyone read this guy, and have a general opinion of him?

 

[RandomGuy 0]

"I had a SS quartz rep of this. And it was 40mm if I remember correctly. "

 

If I recall correctly, in a prior post you are looking to buy that rep again but had issues due to EU delivery?

(If so, pm me and maybe I can help you out.)

I think you had also posted the blue dial version, which is stunning.

[By-Tor 0]

Thanks man. But I already found one from UK.

 

 

Then on top of that I bought a gen. Awaiting for delivery.

 

My old one wasn't blue... it was black but it had very strong 2x blue AR.

 

http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=132577

 

Then I had one quartz 1911 Modulor version rep from Richard Lawton. But that was wayyyyy back in 2004 I think.

[RandomGuy 0]

Thanks man. But I already found one from UK.

 

 

Then on top of that I bought a gen. Awaiting for delivery.

 

My old one wasn't blue... it was black but it had very strong 2x blue AR.

 

http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=132577

 

Then I had one quartz 1911 Modulor version rep from Richard Lawton. But that was wayyyyy back in 2004 I think.

 

The 2x AR is strong in that one indeed!

Excellent pieces, wear them in good health.

[By-Tor 0]

Thanks. No more reps for me now.

 

It was funny when I came back after these years I went to dealers' sections and see what they have come up with. I saw that wow... they have made a new 1675 and 10460.

 

And they are total, utter shite. They are pure f....cking geniuses in those factories. There are a few million reference photos of Subs and GMT's and they decide to use Submariner spiky crown guards on a GMT. Now that's clever. And guess what... they use GMT crown guards on that no-date Sub. Further proof that man actually comes from apes. They only used those similar, spiky cg's on a Sub for 40 years. But they never get them right.

 

I mean... inaccuracies are OK. Yes they can't replicate a BTR or Zenith that's obvious because of the high end movement. They have done amazing job considering the limitations. But a friggin' vintage Sub and GMT. There aren't any simpler watches than those.

 

FFF--fffn idiots! Or maybe they're in drugs... or blind?

 

Some things never change in the rep world.

[Genius 281]

It's just they had a load of sub cases ready made and thought let's stick a GMT in it

[By-Tor 0]

It's just they had a load of sub cases ready made and thought let's stick a GMT in it

 

Yeah. Probably.

 

And when they have extra GMT cases and they decide to make a Sub of them.

 

 

Better crown guards wouldn't save this piece of shit though. They're asking what... $400 for this toxic waste. I'd pay $5 for this because my kitchen table has one leg shorter than others. This would probably go nicely under that.

[Genius 281]

honestly the pricing on some reps makes no sense at all

[Diver Dave 0]

 

And they are total, utter shite. They are pure f....cking geniuses in those factories. There are a few million reference photos of Subs and GMT's and they decide to use Submariner spiky crown guards on a GMT. Now that's clever. And guess what... they use GMT crown guards on that no-date Sub. Further proof that man actually comes from apes. They only used those similar, spiky cg's on a Sub for 40 years. But they never get them right.

 

 

 

Which is why I ordered one of each and used the GMT case to build a sub, and the sub case to build a GMT...

 

(Actually I used an Explorer I case to build the GMT, but it's the thought that counts. The CG's are really something they ought to get right, but don't)

[Tits McGee 7]

Ka pow.

 

 

Oww. My eyes!! Again. You should ban yourself.

[NCRich 13,751]

Tits take a look at the RWG watch at the top of the page.

[Tits McGee 7]

Great post By-Tor (and also great to see you around again!)

 

My attitude is maybe a little different. Watches are toys. Makes no difference whether they're rep or gen - still toys. I've bought the odd decent gen - usually when there's no good rep of something I particularly like - but it doesn't really make any difference to me when the watch I wear is gen or rep (other than the rep being a less costly toy, of course )

 

 

Agreed, for a similar reason. I now buy what's most comfortable and has a dial I can read, regardless if it's a rep or gen. I went through my Pam (and accompanying) strap phase. I went through an IWC phase. Then the white dial cocktail watch phase. The dive watch phase. The chrono phase. Dress watch, tool watch, etc. I now know 7750's don't sit well on my wrist (rep or gen). I prefer an 11mm depth or skinnier. Most bracelets are uncomfortable to me. Especially Rolex & Tudor. Most titanium watches scratch easily, DLC's and ceramic reps don't work for my skinny white wrists. Lume? Not important to me since the advent of the electric light bulb. 18 & 20mm straps & bracelets are non-starters. No, I've evolved and learned. I'm firmly in the 42-43mm with a 22mm 175/80 non-padded strap or butterfly clasp bracelet comfort zone.

 

I can't wear an Ebel 1911 Discovery because I'm between links. I love that fucking watch too. Had 5. Sold them all for the same reason.

I can't wear an IWC 3777 on bracelet either. Again, in between links. It's 15mm too tall. Hurts the boney wrists. Had 5 or 6 of those too.

 

You couldn't have never convinced me of any of these issues either. I had to hang out here and buy/sell every one until I learned for myself.

 

I'm down to 2 Hamilton Khaki's, 1 Steinhart, 1 Rep IWC white Portugese 7 days, a quartz Parnis chrono, and most surprisingly, A Tag Carerra on a bracelet from Dhgate!

 

Now I buy shorts with an elastic waist and have slippers, relaxed fit jeans, and slip on shoes. I also sound like my Father did and I'm noticing I'm starting to do all those things I used to find annoying about him too. 10 years ago....I still wore tight button fly jeans, smoked cigarettes, and drank like a monkey.

 

No...life is always changing. I buy what I know is comfortable now. When I see something I want, I look REAL hard at it before I jump in.

 

I don't know you Mr. By-Tor but I like the way you post. I wasn't around "back in the day" but I tip my hat to you sir. Great stuff in this thread.

[Tits McGee 7]

Tits take a look at the RWG watch at the top of the page.

 

 

You're going to take the whole place down with that "Devils Amulet". I showed my wife the picture of that and as she looked, the wind kicked up, birds began flying into our windows, clouds darkened the sky, it began raining, and we can't find the dog. Evil I tell ya. Pure evil!

[By-Tor 0]

Thanks Tits. I love tits too.

[Tits McGee 7]

Thanks Tits. I love tits too.