Reps using 904L steel?

[live1 0]

On 25/12/2017 at 09:51, mech500 said:

Yes ARF is using 904L.

 

Chinese 904L ain’t gonna have the precise purity as Rolex 904L.

 

Also, gen finishing technique and quality will always be superior to rep.

 

Having said that ARF have done an amazing job.

 

I actually think ARF 126600 bracelet looks better than any of my used gens. No kidding. Lol. I prefer the lustre on the ARF over used gen.

 

 

Maybe gen looks a little whiter? Idk? All I know is that I love the ARF bracelet.

Gen hulk (top), ARF (bottom)

 

ARF 126600 (right), Gen 116610 (left):

 

When RWI is back online, I was planning on doing a gen vs rep 904L review using ARF, Noob vs gen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have eyes like a freak amd when I compare my gen sub c braclett or case to my reps I can't see any colour difference  I've looked in all lighting.people that think the colour of 316l vs 904 are seeing things imo

[amptor 0]

I genuinely lost interest when I found out that the watch case itself is not 904L on these reps.  Only the bracelet?  Meh.

[Rymeister 0]

I haven’t tried the Pelagos Rep but the ARF quality is spot-on. Bracelet and clasp (in particular) is excellent. You will love it. Bezel operation is solid, not as good as gen but acceptable.

I have access to a gen SD43K and will do a gen vs rep review when RWI is back on-line. In summary, i love the rep only wish they could match (at least) TCKH LV hands and hour surrounds shape/quality.

Gen SD43K:

Look forward to the comparison as have tried on the Gen a few weeks back and loved it, so be nice to see rep comparison. Really toying with either a sd43 or noob v7 ln atm.



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[Smpfan 0]

I‘m really sure if you take 2 pieces of steel -one made of 904 and one made of 316- and work on the surface in exactly the same manner you won’t be able to tell the difference. Gen Rolex has got superior surface brushing, polishing and treatment. That’s the point which makes the difference to your eyes compared to our reps

And sorry, no, 904 is not heavier than 316. It‘s the same. It’s not much harder, too. The main difference is chemical consistency. This is not important for a wristwatch.

 

 

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[loewenzahn 0]

7 minutes ago, Smpfan said:

The main difference is chemical consistency. This is not important for a wristwatch.

Not exactly it's unimportant. 904L is much more resistant against seawater than other ss alloys. Not that this bothers much us average consumers ;-)

[mysterio 18]

23 hours ago, Ross29 said:

All you'd have to do is compare it with your other 316 models and you'll see the difference. Some people can't,  I get that, but for those who can see the difference, it's the one thing I notice out in the wild. If it's lacking that "luster" I always assume rep. Who cares about the gen dial and crown at that point. 

33 minutes ago, Smpfan said:

I‘m really sure if you take 2 pieces of steel -one made of 904 and one made of 316- and work on the surface in exactly the same manner you won’t be able to tell the difference. Gen Rolex has got superior surface brushing, polishing and treatment. That’s the point which makes the difference to your eyes compared to our reps

And sorry, no, 904 is not heavier than 316. It‘s the same. It’s not much harder, too. The main difference is chemical consistency. This is not important for a wristwatch.

Anyone can make generalizations without having anything to back it up like having both 904L steel and 316L steel look the same if you work the surface in exactly the same manner. As for your weight assertion, 904 steel is heavier than 316 steel. 2.5% or 8.1g/cm3 compared to 7.9 g/cm3.

Edited December 27, 2017 by mysterio

[Smpfan 0]

You won’t feel that weight difference on the wrist. Most today’s reps only differ in very few grams from the gen.


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[Smpfan 0]

You won’t feel that weight difference on the wrist. Most today’s reps only differ in very few grams from the gen.


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[Higs 73]

On 25/12/2017 at 09:51, mech500 said:

Chinese 904L ain’t gonna have the precise purity as Rolex 904L.

 

Then it's not 904L

[deju 1,870]

The ARF definately has a better (luster?!) to the metal shine which is closer to the gen, alot of reps can look dull in real life especially after they have some wear to them.

I would probably change the crystal to gen but I can't be assed with thew hassel of modding, as the cut of it on the edge doesn't catch the light and sparkle like a gen. Hard to explain, but I noticed this with panerai reps too specifically on the case backs. 

[Smpfan 0]

I‘m awaiting this ARF SD for the next days and will compare this to my other reps.

I‘ve been working with many different metals for 27 years now. So I don‘t think it’s just a generalization if I say it only depends on surface working. Unfortunately RWI is down at the moment. But I remember there is a big older thread existing in which 316L vs 904L is compared. I think the consensus was that there is not any visible difference.

Another example: I’ve got a SEIKO MM300 and a gen Breitling Avenger GMT. Both are made of 316L. There are really more shiny and blingy than any other rep made of 316L I’ve ever owned. So what’s the difference and the secret here?

And do you remember the debate of 316L vs 316F? Nowadays noone is talking anymore about 316F which should supposedly be brighter than 316L.


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[mysterio 18]

The debate about 316F being brighter than 316L was also tackled in  that thread (I don't remember the discussion as I think that was in the Rolex section and I am not a Rolex fan). Even though technically 316L can have a higher Molybdenum content than 316F based on acceptable range (2-3% vs 1.75-2.5%) and thus based on composition, can be "whiter", it's really more about the polishing and machining performance of 316F vs 316L. The 316F alloy's unique content of Phosphorus and Sulfur lend it a special knack for machining and polishing. This property is what makes it to look brighter and thus "whiter".  That said, it's not only the machining and polishing but also the shape of the surface being polished that can give the appearance of being more shiny. For example. a very angular surface which reflects more light like a fluted bezel can seem more shiny than a similarly polished flat bezel.

Can't comment on your gens being more blingy and shiny than your reps. I don't know what reps and what class of reps you have. Of course, it's no secret that the amount of polishing can change the appearance of the same metal. I only know PAMs and I've seen low end PAMs in the local rep watch market. Even polished and not looking at the obvious things like the dial, I can tell they are reps.  High-end reps like the super rep level PAMs are a totally different proposition. A friend couldn't tell his gen from my identical rep when we covered the straps. Granted he only had that PAM, but there were no visual cues he could see like how not as nicely polished the rep case was which should be a telltale sign (well that's what he thought). I think he already sold the PAM.

As for 904L not having any visible difference compared to 316L, I believe there is. 904L steel is termed as "more yellow" due to the higher content of Nickel in the alloy. This gives the steel a more noble look like a precious metal, if I remember the term correctly. But without a side by side comparison (a very important condition), it would nearly be impossible to tell the difference. between 316L, 316F and 904L.  That was the conclusion of the article.

Edited December 27, 2017 by mysterio

[bustyouup4free 4]

Yes ARF is using 904L.
 
Chinese 904L ain’t gonna have the precise purity as Rolex 904L.
 
Also, gen finishing technique and quality will always be superior to rep.
 
Having said that ARF have done an amazing job.
 
I actually think ARF 126600 bracelet looks better than any of my used gens. No kidding. Lol. I prefer the lustre on the ARF over used gen.
 
 
Maybe gen looks a little whiter? Idk? All I know is that I love the ARF bracelet.
Gen hulk (top), ARF (bottom)

 
ARF 126600 (right), Gen 116610 (left):

 
When RWI is back online, I was planning on doing a gen vs rep 904L review using ARF, Noob vs gen.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

looking forward to that comparison...

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[2fake4u 0]

Bracelet, Clasp, Case samples tested.  Samples received direct from ARF.

 

Yes, chinese 904 isnt the exact same as rolex 904, but in order to be 904 classified, there are small margins of error so the material is similar.  And if youve ever worked on the ARF cases/bracelets, you can tell there is definitely a difference compared to the 316 rep bracelets.  Its almost like working on gen...

 

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by 2fake4u

[M1911 0]

I was a knife dealer for a while, know a little bit about knife steel, even though they arent the same type we are discussing here, but generally speaking steel are steel. 

To under estimate China's ability to create their version of anything with a sub par quality is a big mistake. 

They are the country with the largest buyer of steel in the world, and they also can easily copy anything, let alone formulate a steel type.

Factories that make these rep watches have no problem sourcing whatever endmills required for milling 904l steel locally in china, so to say they have to invest heavily just to work with 904L is inaccurate.

904L is not really too exotic in the metalurgy world, theyve been working with a more higher end steel than that.

[GingerApple 7,284]

On 26/12/2017 at 18:42, Rymeister said:

Look forward to the comparison as have tried on the Gen a few weeks back and loved it, so be nice to see rep comparison. Really toying with either a sd43 or noob v7 ln atm.



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My ARF Seadweller turned up today. The QC pics didn't look brilliant and were lightly criticised on RWI where I posted them (much like my ARF Daytona QCs to be fair), but in the flesh, it's great. I can't see much between the Gen and the ARF in photos. I love ARF, whole new level of Reps. 

[sea123 4]

Here’s one on 904. Looks and feels different from 316. Perhaps it’s psychological but I’m enjoying it lots.

That’s utter class


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[jamesezra 0]

1 minute ago, sea123 said:

That’s utter class


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Thanks buddy Trying hard to move it around my rotation... but to no avail.

[Nikosaldente 630]

Yep, those rep manufacturing factories are getting better day by day!

[DonDucker 0]

Is ARF better then Noob?

 

[loewenzahn 0]

better? Don't know. AFR are the unique rep. user/mfr of 904L steel.

[GingerApple 7,284]

For me, they're better.

[black263 228]

On 26/12/2017 at 13:12, Ross29 said:

All you'd have to do is compare it with your other 316 models and you'll see the difference. Some people can't,  I get that, but for those who can see the difference, it's the one thing I notice out in the wild. If it's lacking that "luster" I always assume rep. Who cares about the gen dial and crown at that point. 

 

I have a simpler system.  If it's a Rolex, I always assume rep.

[SamsonAusKognito 31]

On ‎25‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 23:45, jamesezra said:

Here’s one on 904. Looks and feels different from 316. Perhaps it’s psychological but I’m enjoying it lots.

This my friend is f***ing sexy watch, perfect for the summer.

I have received my ARF SD today and will buy the Daytona next ... really sexy timepieces.

[trendconcept 13]

On 2.1.2018 at 07:38, black263 said:

I have a simpler system.  If it's a Rolex, I always assume rep.

Hahaha, I use the same system. However, I'm aware that it has an error rate of 0.1%.