Issues with AP ROO sec@12 UK

[Pesman 9,461]

Hi All

 

I am looking for some advise in respect of my latest rep from Josh.

 

It's the Michael Schumacher AP ROO Chrono with secs@12. My most expensive rep purchase.

 

I got the watch yesterday and as expected the build and finish is amazing. It starts up fine and runs ok.

 

However, whilst I know we are told that rep chronographs can be flaky, I do like to know it will work on the odd occasion I may want to show it off. Especially at this price. So I tried to test it as I was interested to see where seconds would be counted on this layout of dials.

 

The chronograph only runs for around 10 seconds then stops. It also stops the running seconds at 12. If I 'stop' the chrono the running 12 starts again. The chrono then resets fine.

 

Is this typical of these AP's? I know the 7750 must be heavily worked to move the seconds to 12 but the site says 'working chronograph'. Had I known there were issues I would have played safe with a standard layout model.

 

I own a lot of reps and I am always careful with them but I feel I have spent a lot here for something with a fault thst the QC should have found. It also means I could not knowingly sell the watch on without a significant loss.

 

Josh has agreed to have it sent back but I am wondering if I am better to just accept it or look for a local repair. I have also never returned anything to China so I'm concerned it may get lost.

 

I'd appreciate any advise. It was expensive and looks great I am just disappointed.

 

Have attached some pics.

 

Cheers

 

Pesman

 

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

 

[RepGuy 108]

It will be tough to get it locally repaired, as the AP ROO secs at 12 is an A7750 movement, modified in an unreliable way, with custom parts. Most local watch repair won't have the knowledge to do this, and the fact it's a replica will make it harder.

As thousand of other posts have said, the AP ROO is a timebomb movement, and the chronograph shouldn't be used to avoid this exact problem. 99% of the time, I suggest getting the watch repaired locally to save on time and risk, but in this case, you should probably send it back to Josh due to the modified movement.

In the future, try not to use the chronograph at all, because this will happen again.

[Glaude 1,615]

17 minutes ago, RepGuy said:

It will be tough to get it locally repaired, as the AP ROO secs at 12 is an A7750 movement, modified in an unreliable way, with custom parts. Most local watch repair won't have the knowledge to do this, and the fact it's a replica will make it harder.

As thousand of other posts have said, the AP ROO is a timebomb movement, and the chronograph shouldn't be used to avoid this exact problem. 99% of the time, I suggest getting the watch repaired locally to save on time and risk, but in this case, you should probably send it back to Josh due to the modified movement.

In the future, try not to use the chronograph at all, because this will happen again.

This

and 

28 minutes ago, Pesman said:

I own a lot of reps and I am always careful with them but I feel I have spent a lot here for something with a fault thst the QC should have found. It also means I could not knowingly sell the watch on without a significant loss.

Unfortunately that something that is rarely tested in the QC process, and chances are that it happened during transport but was working fine leaving Josh's hands.

[13oots2 3]

Sorry to hear your disappointment.....I have a couple of JF 42mm Roo's and the chronos seem fine, in fact I use them daily at my own peril. I did read somewhere that JF is the only factory to use jewels for the extra workings to move the chrono hands to the correct places.

[GenTLe 1,496]

Maybe it is simply the tilting pinion that engages the chronograph that is not properly regulated.
This one:

Its pressure again the central chronograph gear is regulated by the eccentric screw that is barely visible in the lowest part of the video, which has a wire spring half around it.
If the pinion presses too much against the central gear it stops the movement. If it is too lose then the central second hand stutters or skip beats.

[VMSG 2]

34 minutes ago, Glaude said:

Unfortunately that something that is rarely tested in the QC process, and chances are that it happened during transport but was working fine leaving Josh's hands.

 

I don't get it, is it so hard for a TD to let the chrono runs for few mins?

[Glaude 1,615]

35 minutes ago, VMSG said:

I don't get it, is it so hard for a TD to let the chrono runs for few mins?

It seems that you missed the part : "happened during transport" 

But yes they don't go far for QC, it's mainly cosmetic and basic regulation.

[RepGuy 108]

1 hour ago, VMSG said:

I don't get it, is it so hard for a TD to let the chrono runs for few mins?

With the well known issues with these movements, the TD's probably dont want to risk breaking it before shipment by testing the chrono, even for a few minutes.

In a legitimate business, I would expect this to be checked, but we're dealing with illegal goods from questionable factory sources, so I really cant blame the TD's. After all, they don't make the movements, and have to deal with the same issues we do if tested.

In the dealers eyes, it's better to not test a known shitty movement, and get it shipped out to the customer (who may never test the chrono, and be happy with the watch), than to test it themselves, and potentially have to return and replace the watch before it's even shipped.

[VMSG 2]

2 minutes ago, RepGuy said:

With the well known issues with these movements, the TD's probably dont want to risk breaking it before shipment by testing the chrono, even for a few minutes.

In a legitimate business, I would expect this to be checked, but we're dealing with illegal goods from questionable factory sources, so I really cant blame the TD's. After all, they don't make the movements, and have to deal with the same issues we do if tested.

In the dealers eyes, it's better to not test a known shitty movement, and get it shipped out to the customer (who may never test the chrono, and be happy with the watch), than to test it themselves, and potentially have to return and replace the watch before it's even shipped.

I see... well, I would pay some extra $$ to a TD that will put QC as a business promise on other "i don't want to test and know" TDs...

[RepGuy 108]

9 minutes ago, VMSG said:

I see... well, I would pay some extra $$ to a TD that will put QC as a business promise on other "i don't want to test and know" TDs...

The issue with these movements is that they are unpredictable. Even if the TD tested it before shipment, it doesn't mean the watch will continue to work after it arrives and is used by the customer.

The real issue that needs fixed is the movement itself. I doubt that will happen given the state of the rep market, but it would help alleviate many of these AP problems. 

[Pesman 9,461]

Thanks for this guys. Should have checked out more closely before ordering. I assumed at this price point it would be more solid. My ZF IWC 's sec@6 run a flawless chrono.

It's like I said - I won't ever use the chrono it's just to know it works....

Suspect I'm just best off hanging onto it and learning a somewhat expensive lesson. It wears well and materials are amazing

Would be interested in any recommended more reliable models as they are great looking watches just a bit of an outlay even when compared to the daft priced gens....The Schumacher is just a little OTT as well!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Bamadadof3 0]

Maybe it is simply the tilting pinion that engages the chronograph that is not properly regulated.
This one:


Its pressure again the central chronograph gear is regulated by the eccentric screw that is barely visible in the lowest part of the video, which has a wire spring half around it.
If the pinion presses too much against the central gear it stops the movement. If it is too lose then the central second hand stutters or skip beats.

This is most likely what’s happening.


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[VMSG 2]

10 hours ago, RepGuy said:

The issue with these movements is that they are unpredictable. Even if the TD tested it before shipment, it doesn't mean the watch will continue to work after it arrives and is used by the customer.

The real issue that needs fixed is the movement itself. I doubt that will happen given the state of the rep market, but it would help alleviate many of these AP problems. 

Out of topic: these movements are only for the rep world? there are no gen Chinese watchmakers that are using these?

[Glaude 1,615]

7 hours ago, VMSG said:

Out of topic: these movements are only for the rep world? there are no gen Chinese watchmakers that are using these?

I personally don't know any that use a A7750 mod@12 in the legit Chinese watch market, but it's so wide that it's hard to say

[RepGuy 108]

7 hours ago, VMSG said:

Out of topic: these movements are only for the rep world? there are no gen Chinese watchmakers that are using these?

Correct. These aren't used in anything but AP reps. They are unreliable, and stung together with questionable parts, making them useless for anything other than AP ROO reps.

[VMSG 2]

3 hours ago, RepGuy said:

Correct. These aren't used in anything but AP reps. They are unreliable, and stung together with questionable parts, making them useless for anything other than AP ROO reps.

Thanks, it is good to know

[Theduke.williams 1,025]

If you have decided not to send this watch back to Josh (and I would agree with that sentiment), it may be worth contacting Nick R at Watchrepairs UK;

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/forum/342-watchrepairs-uk/

He's a Trusted watchsmith on this board, and I can personally recommend his work.

He was able to sort out my modified a7750 Omega Seamaster Chrono, where the modified hour chrono hand wasn't moving as it should.

He may shy away from this repair, as it seems (given the comments) that this particular modification is problematic, or he may just be able to restore your watch to it's intended glory.

Shame really - I've been thinking about one of these Shueys for some time, maybe I'll go for a cheaper Microstepper version off the gate!

[Pesman 9,461]

Rolie has saved the day... this is a summary of what he had to do...

 

"yours is done , this is what ive found and what needed to be done to get the chrono working .

 found that the cover plate was fouling up the stop start lever causing this to jam up ,

 also found that the rotor screw believe it or not was to long in the thread and was catching the chrono pinion underneath it so that's been replaced with a nice blu one for you, ive left the cover plate of and also regulated your watch for you and lubed the cam levers etc for the chronograph with DX  , runs like a dream now ."

 

The man is a star and the reason we all hang out on Forums like this

 

May also explain why it's special offer...

 

Worse still I missed a missing nut on the back in the QC pictures - see below. Have chased Josh for a replacement so fingers crossed it will eventually be sorted...

 

Huge thanks to all.

 

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[Luxuracer 14]

7 minutes ago, Pesman said:

Rolie has saved the day... thus is summary of what he had to do...

[Pesman 9,461]

All back and working sweetly. Just trying to persuade them to send me the missing screw from the back

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[black263 228]

Will you guys stop praising Rolie.  There are some of us who want to keep him for ourselves

[Luxuracer 14]

43 minutes ago, black263 said:

Will you guys stop praising Rolie.  There are some of us who want to keep him for ourselves

Start a 'scam' thread ... Black!

[171796 2]

A lot of people wear non-functional watches proudly. 

[VMSG 2]

11 minutes ago, 171796 said:

A lot of people wear non-functional watches proudly. 

Personally, I prefer fewer complications but works on fake complications.

[Luxuracer 14]

29 minutes ago, 171796 said:

A lot of people wear non-functional watches proudly. 

Who would need to wear a functional watch !?! ..... You always tell the correct time on your phone.