my 116600 project

[J!m 289]

I'm going to document here the various mods I do to this watch.

It's a "V2" of the watch, and quite nice out of the box, but there are a few odd things I need to address on it.

This is a gen, so what the final product should look like:

Note the dial is "matte" not glossy. All the reps have glossy dials... That bugged me, but the rest looks good so I figured I'd live with it.

This is what I received, through a M2M sale:

Quick glance- it's fine. Look a bit closer, and you see the dial is a BIT too shiny. It is a full glossy dial, like the subs. I'm quite sure it is the exact same base plate as the subs use. Crown looks fine screwed down. But, the feel unscrewing it is not nice, and as we will soon see, the tube is not good either. This is a good point for failure (threads) as well as a leak point, due to poor quality seals and not enough of them!

Here's some details of the case. The He valve is completely fake, so no need to epoxy it... Maybe on the next case (see below for why) I'll install a gen He valve...

As you can see in the last photo, the crown tube tap is too small for a gen tube, and it lacks the counterbore for the tube gasket (that's the square-profile o-ring between tube and case)

After some quality time at the mill...

BUT, I discovered a problem, and this leads me to seek another case... This bore was done exactly on the center of the original one- good work! you might say at first, but there is a problem... Look at the rep v gen pictures above. Notice that really sunken date on the rep? Well, in order to have one case regardless of movement, they add a 0.020" spacer ring under the dial so the "3135" movement can be used. It's a really nice ring and I'll save it if I ever do a no-date 116610 with a 3135. Other than the sunken date, the hand stack will be artificially low. Remember TC going to great lengths to get his rep movement with the H4 hand stack? Well, the height of the hands above the dial was/is a pet peeve of his and the hands on this are 0.020" lower because of that shim.

But anyway, here's the gen 703 tube installed:

This gets a gen 704 "monoblock" crown.

As a side project, I took it upon myself to find an alternative to true sputter coating the insert. Something you can do at home. After much trial and error, I have this:

I also ordered (and installed) a better pearl, because the stock one sticks up a half-mile and looks poor. You can search my posts for the "molotow dethroned..." thread for more info. But, here's the cliff's notes:

Internally, the movement was not working right- the worst kind of problem too... Intermittent.

It seemed to be behaving as if the mainspring was weak and/or broken. It wasn't. I tore it down to check that, (planned to change but a gen spec barrel assembly doesn't fit) and cleaned and lubed the train while it was apart. It ran well on the bench, but refused to run once cased up... That sucks! It seemed to have excessive end shake on the balance staff, so I took the pivot out to clean and eventually lube and adjust end shake. But, I lost the pivot (still have the cap stone and shock spring!). Since I have no idea on interchangability, and wanted to wear this, I ordered another SH3135. Oh, and a gen set of hands (less the seconds hand).

So I'll spal this together and spend some quality time with it, and see if I want to keep dumping time and money into it. CRAP! and indicia fell off while I was working the dial... No problem- pull them all and matte spray the dial!

One pass of matte crystal clear (note some "matte" sprays have a white color cast to them that makes the dial "cloudy" looking) With one pass coverage is not quite 100% the raised dial printing is still raised. In hindsight I should have done a second pass, but doing that now would build too high. I also think an airbrush would atomize finer and give a better result. BUT, not bad for one pass from a spray can!!!

With indicies applied, it looks good. I applied them with G-S cement, as the cyanoacrylate seems to be too brittle. G-S is "rubbery" and absorbs shock well. And, the "sheen" is really nice. Notice it still catches some light around center hole and date window, just like the gen does. Really happy with the outcome.

The crystal. Yeah, that sucks. I have a gen crystal from a (new) member here. Also an aftermarket gen spec gasket. That doesn't work in tis case, so I had to put the rep crystal back in. Not the end of the world, since it's a flat crystal, but taking these bezels apart needlessly is real suck. I'm making a new die to press the lock ring evenly... For some reason, the bezel is rotating easy sometimes and tight other times at different points of rotation... I'm sure it's not seated square, so I'll tear it apart (again) once I finish my die.

And no pic, but now that the dial is sorted out, I'm filing the feet shorter. They are extra long to accommodate the 0.020" shim under the dial. I want to try maybe 0.010" to try and bring the date wheel up (or make it look that way). I suppose I could stick the gen wheel on top of the rep wheel with the shim... Maybe I'll do that tonight and see how it looks. The up side is aligning it is easy- line up the teeth and OD and it should be good. I just don't know if the top wheel will clear the bearings etc, or if it'll foul that all up too... I do have two rep ones (which don't look horrible) so maybe I'll stack those, modifying the top as needed, and run with that... Also saves me filing the dial feet (which is almost at tedious as re-applying indicies without screwing up the dial face).

I'll add more info as I progress with this...

 

[FoxWilde 155]

Very good build so far mate! Keep us updated

Fox

[Logixa 8]

Nice work so far @J!m

[J!m 289]

Thanks.

 

I've been obsessing over this model since trying on the gen when it was available... If this rep does well by me, I may consolidate (considerably) and pick up the gen for myself.

 

So, maybe in a year or three, this "super fuckin" will be available!

PS still need another case, so I can drill the tube hole 0.020" higher... I'm considering a 'gate model as I'll scrap all but the case anyway, unless it doesn't suck...

[Glaude 1,615]

Very interesting read ! Thanks for sharing this journey !

[GingerApple 7,272]

Subscribed!

Great to see how talented some fuckers are.

[Sigg 106]

Love it. Following with interest

[J!m 289]

So I got a couple minutes today to make a die for the bezel. Hopefully PVC is strong enough as I couldn't find a piece of aluminum or copper around...

[Logixa 8]

What do you want to do with  the bezel? 

 

And I don't think the cheapies from the gate have the good dimensions on the in or outside 

[Luxuracer 14]

Wow ... What an amazing build. Wonderful modification and documentation. 

Can you please tell me what is your base watch? I know Noob and BP make the SD4K 116600 and they both used SA3135 movements.

[J!m 289]

Base is a Noob V2 as far as I know. I got it M2M here about a month ago. 

[J!m 289]

2 hours ago, Logixa said:

What do you want to do with  the bezel? 

 

And I don't think the cheapies from the gate have the good dimensions on the in or outside 

As near as I can tell, there is only one case for this watch. Movements, bezels, dials date wheels and hands etc changed slightly from V1 to V2 but it was a short run gen and a short run Rep. They are not improving it any further.

I imagine if it was still a current model, they’d fix the dial finish and have the insert up to V9 (or whatever) standard the sub is at these days. And probably have two cases to cover 2824 clones and 3135 clones, rather than one and the dial shim.

Its not bad out of the box and since you’ll NEVER see another in the wild you don’t have to worry about “tells”. Some “expert” will call you out due to the missing cyclops and you can correct them- the Sea Dweller doesn’t have a cyclops (or didn’t anyway). 

I could have just swapped movements and went with it but I wanted to see what I could do with it anyway. 

[CollieWobbles 236]

Good stuff, please keep us posted

 

[morris133 18]

Nice work - looking forward to see how this turns out

[J!m 289]

My plastic die seems to work well since it's just pressing a ring onto a delrin gasket.

I need to pull the bezel apart again, and re-seat it square so the bezel works perfectly. It works "well" now, but still not perfect. I may add a drop of Molykote as well.

[Nikosaldente 630]

Great work so far! 

Looking forward to seeing how your project evolves!

Keep us posted!

[J!m 289]

So, I finally got back to this tonight. One indicie fell off during the following but I re-applied it. 

First I put the movement in to see how far off the bore for the stem is. Remember: they put a 0.020” shim between dial and movement to line it up. But that drops the date wheel away from the dial, causing the sunken date. 

Also, because the dial is so high, the hour hand has an extra long “tube” to reach the extra 20 thou. Since I have gen hour and minute hands (that don’t have extra long tubes) i HAD to get the dial down against the movement. 

Of course, “just” taking the shim out doesn’t do it- the dial feet are also 20 thou long to allow it to all work... so they had to be filed a bit shorter. The foot has to be held in tweezers as the end is filed. Otherwise you’ll snap it off... this takes way too long as once it is the right length, you have to file the burrs off the end. Then clean the chips off with rodico.

OK. That’s done now set the dial. That’s done. Start setting hands. Spin it to midnight and set the hour hand. Spin it past midnight a dozen times to be sure the hand is straight up... next problem: when the date jumps on the movement, it causes the hour hand to jump forward a bit from the date jumper recoil.  Very difficult to set the hour hand perfectly. Ok fine. Set the minute hand and see how it goes. It took 28 adjustments to get to the point where I gave up. It’s not perfect, and never will be. 

Throw the seconds hand on- also a very long tube on it so I pressed it on deep. Still sits a bit high but doesn’t foul on the crystal so it’s fine. Need a gen seconds hand. 

Case it up. It seems like it’ll be ok but then I notice a tiny metal piece on the inside of the crystal. Pull the movement out to  clean again. Back in to run overnight (so time and date are set) and notice it’s still not clean inside the crystal. Tomorrow I’ll dig out my lens paper and alcohol. The microfiber and alcohol isn’t working. Still leaves a film.  On the bright  side the dial looks good under the crystal. 

I have an idea to align the winding stem. And I think it might work too... well see tomorrow. 

This case does not have the “scallop” opposite the stem to assist with the drop in. Rolex movements fit snug to the case and you loosen the casing screws (which fit into n grooves in the case) to press the movement into the dial. The scallop allows the screws to drop in and then rotate into the groove. I’ll have to use tabs on this one but it’ll be fine. Next case I’ll add the scallop. 

Oh, now the bezel is working well. I pulled it apart twice and re-seated it. If things had went smoother tonight it would be done already. Tomorrow I guess. 

[repmaster1234 49]

[FL13 511]

Jim, what factory?

[J!m 289]

matted dial, gen date wheel, hour and minute hand. 

[J!m 289]

I thought I was done... finally got it clean and cased up. My original idea  to align the stem didn’t work. So I won’t even mention it. I ended up stacking two tabs opposite the stem, and used one adjacent. So the movement sits at a slight angle in the case.  But, it works. Sets smoothly (really smoothly) and all positions of the stem are fine. 

End of the night and I couldn’t find the damn bracelet! WTF? 

Next morning, I find the bracelet. Spring bars I bought for it don’t fit the bracelet. Of course. Found the old crusty ones. BAM I can wear it today! Wait- WTF now!?! The pearl fell out! (Crawling on floor) found it! More G-S please! And some blue tape. Off to work!

While at work I realize the POS spring bar didn’t lock in on one side. Actually I noticed the end link looking a bit strange and then I found out why... loupe and paperclip fixed that. I can’t afford another broken movement. 

pulled the tape off around lunch time. Looks good! Really liking this reference. Need a new job so I can afford it...

NOW WHAT?!?!?!

Getting the bath ready for the little man got me some water in my bad-ass diver watch.  You gotta be fucking KIDDING me!!!!!

like four inches of water. Checking temp. All fogged up. Crystal seal is total fucking junk on these. I have to (you guessed it- G-S cement!) glue the crystal to the gasket to be able to wash my hands. Really? You can’t do any better than that? Come ON rep makers! Not cool! And no way the gen crystal is working in here.  Tried. Need a different gasket for sure. Maybe the entire bezel assembly...

On the bright side the pearl stayed in. Oh, the lume sucks too. Yes, it’s a rep but the Gen Rolex Crapalight is just as dim as the rep dial... Nice job Rolex. 

[Logixa 8]

This shit is funny a fuck  paperclip, tape, cement

 

You are the new Rwg MacGyver 

[J!m 289]

Funny from the outside. 

Honestly- 1:1 all external parts interchange?!? Crown doesn’t fit the tube. Tube doesn’t fit the case. Crystal doesn’t fit... 

dont say it’s something it isn’t. 

[Logixa 8]

Cracking me up here

[J!m 289]

It's been two years, so time for an update.

This thing sucks like a black hole.

/End of update.

 

Actually, it is that bad. I could never get the crystal to seal properly, and I KNOW there was no moisture in the case. I vacuumed it down, and then back-filled with Argon several times. Next day, it'd fog washing hands or whatever. The "bad-ass diver watch" is scared of water. That's AFTER I mummified the crystal and gasket in enough G-S to make a raft out of a raincoat. On the bright side, the bracelet is nice.

Since I'm a masochist, I'm looking for another one. Because I should have wasted the extra G-S on the bezel insert, which fell out and snapped in two, as well as losing the improved replacement pearl. Completely possessed by Satan piece of junk here. I should have bought the gen I tried on... Oh, wait, that was $10,400.00 at the time. I had about 1/10th of that in my pocket. This watch is fast approaching the 1/10 price point (might have surpassed it now, excluding the hours spent).

The movement with date wheel were put into my 16610. That at least holds water out. Actually a sweet build I should write up next. That story at least won't end up a tragedy as this one has...