Vintage Sub 6200 Build - Movement Trouble!

[reperoni3221 0]

Hello all,

I am currently working on a build for a vintage sub ref. 6200. I plan to use the vintage sub case from Silix-prime (Rol Vintage Case 1) as I know it is good quality. However, I am having trouble with movements. I want to use an ETA clone but am unsure of which to use. I originally planned to use a 2824 clone but was not sure if the movement would fit the case (aka worried whether the stem would line up with the corresponding hole in the movement based on the tube position in the case). I know the case fits a 2813 for reference.  In other words I'm worried about the thickness of the movement.

I also considered a 2836 clone because it is slightly thicker, but am confused on hands sizes. I'm looking mostly at Seagull and doing some research. I'm seeing both 1.5, 0.9, and 0.25 (Hr/Min/Sec) and I'm also seeing some say the hand sizes are 1.52, 0.9, and 0.17. Not sure which set of numbers is correct. This could also be the difference between the ST2100 and the ST2146 as they both claim to be 2836 clones.

If anyone can help please comment or message. Thanks!!!

Edited September 11, 2018 by reperoni3221

[FoxWilde 155]

That depends.. What movement is the case made with?

The SW220 is the clone of the ETA2836,

https://www.watch-wiki.net/index.php?title=SW_220

though I'm sure there are multiple clones

[GenTLe 1,492]

If you are building a vintage one, get a 2813, the beat rate is more gen like than the 28800 Asian ETA and you will have A LOT less problems to fit it inside.
Or you should have taken a vintage based on 2836 and swapped it for an old 21600 2842 (not sure of the model, maybe it is 2846... Basically the low beat version of the 2836).

[J!m 289]

I didn't see it mentioned- are you doing a 5512/5513 or a 1680? In other words: is there a date complication?

If not, mount the dial and check alignment of the stem. If needed, use a date spacer ring under the dial (even thought you don't have a date wheel). That should do it.

Conversely, you can remove the spacer if you need to go the other way.

With a date, it gets tricky, as you will run an overlay, which usually causes fouling of the date wheel on the back side of the dial. Or you need a custom spacer. Then you typically are too low with the stem, unless the case is set up for a Rolex movement.

it's not an exact science, so you need to have a lot of parts around to get the "fit" right when cobbling stuff together.

 

PS you will need to rebuild the movement with a taller hand stack depending on how the dial is set in relation to the movement top. And if the dial is spaced too far away from the movement top [plate the hour pinion may fall off and not engage properly, which may necessitate a second spring washer (or tiny flat washer) to ensure the spring washer is contacting the back of the dial...

[NCRich 13,744]

Vintage sub build is way too non-specific for any comment to be useful.  Silix cases are pretty much for 6538s.  Thus a 2813 or 2836 fits.

That is all.

[BadPickle 2,738]

4 minutes ago, NCRich said:

Vintage sub build is way too non-specific for any comment to be useful.  Silix cases are pretty much for 6538s.  Thus a 2813 or 2836 fits.

That is all.

I’ve a st2130 in mine 

[NCRich 13,744]

5 minutes ago, pickledbeetroot said:

I’ve a st2130 in mine 

Didn't mean to say nothing else would fit.  But the stem height makes those the most common.  Mine have 2879 movements, but they are not common.

[hanski 40]

16 hours ago, reperoni3221 said:

Hello all,

I am currently working on a build for a vintage sub. I plan to use the vintage sub case from Silix-prime as I know it is good quality. However, I am having trouble with movements. I want to use an ETA clone but am unsure of which to use. I originally planned to use a 2824 clone but was not sure if the movement would fit the case (aka worried whether the stem would line up with the corresponding hole in the movement based on the tube position in the case). I know the case fits a 2813 for reference.  In other words I'm worried about the thickness of the movement.

I also considered a 2836 clone because it is slightly thicker, but am confused on hands sizes. I'm looking mostly at Seagull and doing some research. I'm seeing both 1.5, 0.9, and 0.25 (Hr/Min/Sec) and I'm also seeing some say the hand sizes are 1.52, 0.9, and 0.17. Not sure which set of numbers is correct. This could also be the difference between the ST2100 and the ST2146 as they both claim to be 2836 clones.

If anyone can help please comment or message. Thanks!!!

Take a look here: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&China_2813

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_2836_2

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2824_2

As you can see, the A2813 and A2836 (ETA in the link) are 11.5" movements with stem locations within .05mm of one another making for easy swap. Ones like ETA 2824 or ETA 2893 are thinner and have the stem located about .25mm different (true of SW200-1 and SW330-1). You can use these alternative movements, however there is a big caveat to it, you'll need to increase the depth of the dial spacer, make sure the date wheel (DWO) is also spaced appropriately to the dial, and most likely modify wheel heights (hr, min, sec, 24hr if applicable). It isn't difficult work but requires the movement be fully disassembled. 

I don't know a lot about which ETA's are cloned in Asia  aside from the ubiquitous A2836-2. If you're wanting ETA in a low-beat or with other features, you'll have to purchase a gen ETA or Sellita (Swiss ETA clones). I'm a big fan of the Sellita movements - cheaper than ETA, Swiss made, and high-quality movements. I have a SW200-1 in my 1680 Sub and a SW330-1 in my 1675 GMT. 

ETA 28-series hand sizes are generally 150, 90, 25. These are not compatible with the hand sizes of A2813 movements, not sure about ST movements. Make sure to order the hands to match the movement. 

 

[bobandshawn 5]

Silix make good sub cases??

[NCRich 13,744]

3 minutes ago, bobandshawn said:

Silix make good sub cases??

Silix makes nothing.  They sell some cases, but I've only seen the 6538 ish cases and the Omega 300 case. 

[reperoni3221 0]

7 hours ago, NCRich said:

Vintage sub build is way too non-specific for any comment to be useful.  Silix cases are pretty much for 6538s.  Thus a 2813 or 2836 fits.

That is all.

Sorry, thought I put it in my post. I'm doing a 6200 build based on the 6538 case that Silix sells. Good to know about the 2836 also fitting into that case. Thanks! That is what I needed to know. 

Thanks everyone for your help!

[reperoni3221 0]

7 hours ago, J!m said:

I didn't see it mentioned- are you doing a 5512/5513 or a 1680? In other words: is there a date complication?

If not, mount the dial and check alignment of the stem. If needed, use a date spacer ring under the dial (even thought you don't have a date wheel). That should do it.

Conversely, you can remove the spacer if you need to go the other way.

With a date, it gets tricky, as you will run an overlay, which usually causes fouling of the date wheel on the back side of the dial. Or you need a custom spacer. Then you typically are too low with the stem, unless the case is set up for a Rolex movement.

it's not an exact science, so you need to have a lot of parts around to get the "fit" right when cobbling stuff together.

 

PS you will need to rebuild the movement with a taller hand stack depending on how the dial is set in relation to the movement top. And if the dial is spaced too far away from the movement top [plate the hour pinion may fall off and not engage properly, which may necessitate a second spring washer (or tiny flat washer) to ensure the spring washer is contacting the back of the dial...

Sorry I thought I put the reference number for the build in there originally but forgot. Its a 6200 so no date. Thanks for the info.

[bobandshawn 5]

5 hours ago, NCRich said:

Silix makes nothing.