Jump to content
Tatum1

Vintage 1680 Red Build Advice Sought

Recommended Posts

Tatum1

Hi, 

Hope all is well? This is only my second post so please go easy. As you can probably tell I am a total noob.

Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong section, please move if that is the case. 

Quite pleased with my last DateJust project so far so now onto my next obsession. As you all know the 1680 is a handsome grail of a watch so I have started working on a basic rep. This one is a bit of a weird one as I had a generic sub case and a Miyota 8215 knocking about. 

I sourced a dial and handset from Raffles, which look quite correct, (terrible lume though). But now I am having second thoughts with regards to the whole build as the case is not drilled or marked and it has a flat Crystal. Also the crown is wrong etc.

I have ordered a marked crown that looks correct. I must add that I have a nice old flip lock bracelet for it  which I had laying about. I gave it a bit of a polish and it has come up quite well whilst still retaining some nice bumps and scratches and a bit of lug stretch. 

Thing is though it will take a lot of work to make correct and its not the best movement in the world, has a bit too much stutter, the bezel is wrong, (not bi-directional) calendar font and colour is wrong and that long ass date change  :/  So I am thinking shall I carry on with this build or just add the crown and call it done and wear it as a beater, desk diver, gardening etc and move on to a more convincing rep project using a fit for purpose example that I have found on Puretime http://www.puretime01.co/rolex-vintage-red-submariner-1680-sku5313.html .

I am thinking that if I do the latter I can then fit it with a genuine crystal and crown and possibly a better movement when the time comes. Puretime lists a ETA-2846 engine  which apparently is discontinued? 

What could I replace this with though? I have been looking at the dimensions of the TY2130 from Cousins but there is a height discrepancy? 

I also have a question about the original basic rep I currently have. Is it worth trying to fit a more correct crystal or should I just cut my losses and focus on the new build? I am not too sure if the crystal I am looking at will even fit tbh as the rehaut looks different? 

I have measured across and its looking like 30mm. I think I have found a crystal for it? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RLX-Submariner-1680-Acrylic-Watch-Glass-127-Cyclops-30-3mm-25-127/232553795487?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 

Thank you in advance for reading this and for any advice offered. 

Please forgive me if I am coming across like a needy noob, but that is basically what I am in a nutshell. 

Kind Regards

Tatum 

Please see pictures;   

O3Tv0.md.jpg

O3hqF.md.jpg

O3X8o.md.jpg

O34vL.md.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1

I must also add that the cyclops that is currently on the crystal is poor :/ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1

Judging by the lack of replies I think this project is a non starter. Onwards and upwards! The plan is now,  get hands on a better 1680 rep possibly one of Marys and age the dial, hands, and bezel. Possibly replace crown and crystal and strap on the genuinely aged bracelet that I already own. 

As for this one, maybe turn it into a budget sub no date? 

Anyone know where I can get a decent case which will take a Miyota 8215? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NCRich

Buy a $100 one from Marvellous Replica, age and relume the dial and hands, drill the lugs to spec, install gen spec bars, put in a clark plexi.  Poof.  If you particular nip down the CGs and put in an Athaya crown.  Screws right in.  Easiest mod in the world.

cCORAqw.jpg?1

Go wild and paint the sec hand red.

qONhX0G.jpg

 

 

Be young, be foolish, be happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hanski
10 minutes ago, Tatum1 said:

Judging by the lack of replies I think this project is a non starter.

Didn't see this topic until today but I agree, you've got a steep hill of a project ahead of you with this set up. Let me ask you some questions that will help guide your project: 

- How much are you looking to spend +/- ? 

- How close are you trying to get (otherwise asked, how many flaws can you live with)? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FoxWilde

From my small experience in vintage Rolex, this is the tier of builds I see. 

$100 cartel case OOTB (worst of the choices but pretty decent

$200-$600 cartel case/hands+Clarks Crystal+Athaya crown+Raffles hands (maybe) Most common, Best budget build

$600-$1000 VN case+ETA2846 or something+Yuki dial+ gen crown and misc. gen parts

$1000+ VN case/parts and/or gen parts. Throw in a gen movement while you're at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
3 hours ago, NCRich said:

Be young, be foolish, be happy.

Always and thats some good looking work right there ;) 

3 hours ago, mzinski said:

Didn't see this topic until today but I agree, you've got a steep hill of a project ahead of you with this set up. Let me ask you some questions that will help guide your project: 

- How much are you looking to spend +/- ? 

- How close are you trying to get (otherwise asked, how many flaws can you live with)? 

A1-Not quite sure yet  maybe £300 to start with. 

A2-As close as possible without breaking the bank, OCD dictates not many but the obvious will drive me nuts. Please see below for movement options. 

2 hours ago, FoxWilde said:

From my small experience in vintage Rolex, this is the tier of builds I see. 

$100 cartel case OOTB (worst of the choices but pretty decent

$200-$600 cartel case/hands+Clarks Crystal+Athaya crown+Raffles hands (maybe) Most common, Best budget build

$600-$1000 VN case+ETA2846 or something+Yuki dial+ gen crown and misc. gen parts

$1000+ VN case/parts and/or gen parts. Throw in a gen movement while you're at it.

Interesting breakdown. I must have a look into the Cartel stuff. My only experience is with Ken at Raffles Dials so far. 

I am based in the UK if that helps at all. Seem to have no problems with items coming from China etc. Not ordered anything from the states yet and I am assuming that the Cartel stuff is based in the states? 

Seems that I have opened Pandoras Box with my love of the 1680. Just hits that spot though! 

I have been looking at a few options to start with as a base. The first 2 seem to be JK which are apparently better to mod?;

http://www.marywatch.net/goods.php?id=599 

This seems to have the basics going on. 

MOVEMENT: Asian Clone 2836-2, Automatic Movement, 25J, 28800bph
CASE DIAMETER: 40mm
THICKNESS: 15mm
DIAL COLOR:  Black Dial, Dot Markers
CASE MATERIAL: Solid 316-F stainless steel
BRACELET: SS Oyster Bracelet, Hollow Mid links with Divers Extension
FRONT GLASS: Doom Plexi Plastic .. Same Dimension and Interchangeable with the genuine
BACK GLASS:  Solid case back with detail Engraving
BEZEL: Black Bezel Bi-directional ( Non Click) - Same Clip on Construction as the Genuine
CLASP TYPE: Flip Lock
DATE INDICATOR: At 3:00

Not too sure if the Date Wheel font is correct though? I have seen silver background with open 6 and 9. 

The lug drillings look a bit rough. 

http://www.trustytime.club/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_11&products_id=14413 

This seems to be the same watch? 
MOVEMENT: Asian Clone 2836-2 Automatic Movement, 25J, 28800bph
CASE DIAMETER: 40mm
THICKNESS: 15mm
DIAL COLOR: Black Dial, Dot Markers
CASE MATERIAL: Solid 316-F stainless steel.. The Highest Steel Spec in this category .. Very Bright
BRACELET: SS Oyster Bracelet, Hollow Mid links with Divers Extension
FRONT GLASS: Tall Tropic Plexi Plastic .. Same Dimension and Interchangeable with the genuine
BACK GLASS: Solid case back with detail Engraving
BEZEL: Black Bezel Bi-directional ( Non Click) - Same Clip on Construction as the Genuine, Best Lumed Pearl to date !  
HACK MOVEMENT: Yes 
CLASP TYPE: Flip Lock
DATE INDICATOR: At 3:00 position (Very Good and accurate size Date Mag, Silver Base - Set via Crown)

 

Trusty Time also sell another BP Version;

http://www.trustytime.club/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=457&products_id=16359 

MOVEMENT: Asia 2836-2 Automatic Movement (28,800bph)
CASE DIAMETER: 40mm
THICKNESS: 16.5mm (Includes the thickness of the Plexi Glass)
DIAL COLOR: Black Gilt Style Dial 
CASE MATERIAL: 
Solid Stainless Steel 316L
BRACELET: 
Solid Stainless Steel 316L Special Folded bracelet with Oyster Lock Buckle 
FRONT GLASS: Plexi Glass
CASE BACK: Solid case back 
BEZEL: 

HACK MOVEMENT: Yes
CLASP TYPE: Oyster Lock Buckle
DATE INDICATOR: At 3:00 (Adjusted via crown) - Open 6 & 9 Numerals like Genuine

Both Mary and Trusty Time seem to have good feedback

The first thing that I will be doing is working on the Bezel, Dial and Hands, I don't want to go too mad with the ageing though. 

This looks like a good start from Raffles with regards to the Bezel; http://rafflesdials.com/vintage-submariner-style-black-aluminum-bezel-insert-with-silver-numbers/ 

I have been looking at different ways to age the dial and hands. I have read that putting them in the oven is a good way to do this? 

I already have one dial that I can use as a test. 

With regards to the relume, this is unchartered territory for me as I am obviously a total noob. I have watched a few how to videos and in principle it looks doable by myself but what lume though? I did have a look at the Bergeon kit https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/luminous-compound-kits not sure if this is any good? 

Next up will be the crystal and crown and the CG, apparently they are better on these versions? The crown does seem to be sitting a bit low though? Its hard to tell in the photos. 

I have bookmarked a possible replacement crystal https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REPLACEMENT-PLASTIC-CRYSTAL-PLEXI-GLASS-25-127-FOR-ROLEX-1680-SUBMARINER-UK/132761412241 I will however now look at the Clark Plexi. 

I am still looking at crowns but will have at look at the

4 hours ago, NCRich said:

Athaya crown

That NCRich Kindly suggested. 

I have the bracelet already in the pictures above that seems like a good option as its already got quite a few years of use behind it, genuine light scratches etc. I also like the flip lock clasp. I am trying to get the look of the 'newer' Red Dial 1680 just before the questionable serial numbers came in to play. 

One thing worth noting is the movement, I have read that the later versions of the 1680 did have a quickset date and hacking function?  The ETA clone I am thinking has both of these functions and I do not think that I can live without a hacking movement as it will drive me mental not being able to synchronise to the atomic clock etc. 

I can always swap the movement out for a Swiss ETA at some stage. The only thing that will really piss me off though is that the ETA winds the wrong way when setting the time. 

I will be ordering the basic watch in the next few weeks but need to be sure what will be the best option for a middle of the road 1680 rep which still has the scope for further improvements. 

Thanks for chipping in, and thanks in advance for the knowledge and therapy that I am about to receive ;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FoxWilde

Cartel is basically the JKF watches from TDs. Same stuff. check out this post for all the lingo

Also, the functions of the movement don't make a difference to me. Also, I don't wind and set the time of my rep in front of people know know anything about watches. Which honestly, finding someone who knows about a 1680 submariner 1570 movement in the mass public is quite hard. 

if it's low beat, tells the time and date, I'm good with it. I got a beautiful 1675 with a DG3804 in it. No need to stress about the hacking or whatever.

Edited by FoxWilde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NCRich

There are a lot of builds and tutorials in the vintage section.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
10 minutes ago, FoxWilde said:

Cartel is basically the JKF watches from TDs. Same stuff. check out this post for all the lingo

Also, the functions of the movement don't make a difference to me. Also, I don't wind and set the time of my rep in front of people know know anything about watches. Which honestly, finding someone who knows about a 1680 submariner 1570 movement in the mass public is quite hard. 

if it's low beat, tells the time and date, I'm good with it. I got a beautiful 1675 with a DG3804 in it. No need to stress about the hacking or whatever.

Sweet, thanks for the heads up thats cleared up a few bits I was unsure of ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
1 hour ago, NCRich said:

There are a lot of builds and tutorials in the vintage section.

;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hanski
1 hour ago, Tatum1 said:

With regards to the relume, this is unchartered territory for me as I am obviously a total noob. I have watched a few how to videos and in principle it looks doable by myself but what lume though? I did have a look at the Bergeon kit https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/luminous-compound-kits not sure if this is any good?

I know the guy who did these posts - happy to answer any questions you have about doing it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
15 hours ago, mzinski said:

I know the guy who did these posts - happy to answer any questions you have about doing it. 

Thank you for grabbing these links. The plot thickens.

I will be ordering the base watch asap along with a vintage Bezel from Raffles, Plexi from Clarks and a crown from Athaya. 

The ageing and relume can run concurrently on the dial and hand set that I already have. 

No doubt I will have a plethora of noob questions, and thats a mighty fine looking lume job. I must admit that I am not impressed by the weak lume on the dial that I already have. 

Thanks again. I will update with progress ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
On 05/02/2019 at 20:23, NCRich said:

Buy a $100 one from Marvellous Replica, age and relume the dial and hands, drill the lugs to spec, install gen spec bars, put in a clark plexi.  Poof.  If you particular nip down the CGs and put in an Athaya crown.  Screws right in.  Easiest mod in the world.

Just having a proper look at your photos. Im impressed. Can I ask what you done with the lume pips to get the correct colour? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NCRich
10 hours ago, Tatum1 said:

Just having a proper look at your photos. Im impressed. Can I ask what you done with the lume pips to get the correct colour? 

I use a water based lume, it uses something like Elmers White glue as a binder.  With that I can make the color anything I want with a simple water color paint kit from the hobby store.  Its called Watchlume on ebay and is about $20.  Paint kit is $10 at Hobby Lobby.  That has lasted me 3 years and I'm not halfway through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
On 07/02/2019 at 09:54, NCRich said:

I use a water based lume, it uses something like Elmers White glue as a binder.  With that I can make the color anything I want with a simple water color paint kit from the hobby store.  Its called Watchlume on ebay and is about $20.  Paint kit is $10 at Hobby Lobby.  That has lasted me 3 years and I'm not halfway through it.

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up I will check it out ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1

Being an impatient and sometimes spontaneous kind of guy..... 

While waiting for for Mary to catch up on her CNY email backlog. I had a rummage through the watch graveyard and found an old case and battered crystal. 

So swapped out the dead movement for a Miyota 8215.

I have also had a crack at ageing the dial and hands and its not looking too bad for a first attempt? Quite like the look of the lost lume on the seconds hand?

I also had a crown from Raffles knocking about.

I have also managed to deactivate the bezel click spring so it now turns bi-directionally with no click. 

This foray will probably be abandoned when I get my JK 1680 from Mary, but just thought I would share a few pics ;) 

rinoy.md.jpg

rieWG.md.jpg

My "serious" 1680 will have much more subtle ageing and a decent relume if everything goes to plan of course  ;)  

Edited by Tatum1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1

It's back in the original case now btw ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robtherib

Nice job.

Keep up the good work, you certainly have a flair for this type of work.

I wish I had your ability and persistence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tatum1
14 hours ago, Robtherib said:

Nice job.

Keep up the good work, you certainly have a flair for this type of work.

I wish I had your ability and persistence.

Thank you but I am just messing about and tinkering really atm until I order my first true to form rep from a TD.  Then if I can even get close to the work carried out by @NCRich I will be a happy man :) 

Vintage Red 1680 is up first then I think it may have to be a vintage Tudor Sub ;) 

I will do a separate post when I start work proper. 

I got bored and put the movement back in the original case last night.  I am on the lookout for a suitable case for this with drilled lugs though, although the non flicking date on this will annoy me along with the font. The latter is an easy fix by the looks though ;) 

5veNU.md.jpg

5vxy8.md.jpg

 

Edited by Tatum1
Blond Moment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×