Watch with no power reserve

[ElvisFreak 73]

So, I have this Yachmaster with  an asian movement...(cheapie with plastic movement holder)

Here is what it does :

if I pick it off the table and its still, I shake it a few times and it starts ticking. I wear it all day, it ticks Wy fine and even keeps great time.

But if I lay it down face up overnight, just two or three hours later it stops. I pick it up again, wear it and it starts ticking again.

So, I then thought I would manually wind it and wear it on the wrist. It kept ticking overnight and did not stop.

So, the automatic winding is not broken since it ticks when i shake it but it wont keep power if I dont wind it fully.

What is going on?

[Golfer130i 4]

It’s possible that you’re not active enough when wearing it and not putting much wind into it during the day. I have the same problem with my submariner and have to hand wind it every now and then. Maybe the auto wind mechanisms are not as good as the ones in the gen movements. 

[ElvisFreak 73]

it occurred to me...

but the one time i hand wound it, I did over 80 turns and stopped because I started feeling slight resistance.

it lasted all day and overnight with me sleeping with the watch on my wrist.

[processengr 13,328]

Most of my cheap 21J  watches wont run more than a couple of hours after I have taken them off, even after an active day. My 21J Miyotas keep running for at least 8-12 hrs after similar activity. Most of my Asian ETA clones run 20+hrs.

[Glaude 1,615]

I have two DhGate cheapies that have issues getting enough power via the rotor, I just wound them manually before going to bed.

Did you run this test : wind it manually to what seems to be full and lay it down on the face overnight, does it stop too ?

[ElvisFreak 73]

4 minutes ago, Glaude said:

I have two DhGate cheapies that have issues getting enough power via the rotor, I just wound them manually before going to bed.

Did you run this test : wind it manually to what seems to be full and lay it down on the face overnight, does it stop too ?

Did that and it passed the test

[zulu44gmt 1,046]

Hey an old friend sent me his cheapie GMT from dgate. He complained about these same things. What I observed is the movement only wound when the rotor was spun in one direction. Most of the time, The rotor didn't have enough inertia to overcome the winding gear train.

I went Into my drawer of blown up dg2813/3804-. Swapped rotors and all solved...the DGs seem to be better balanced and maybe a smidge heavier


Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[Glaude 1,615]

54 minutes ago, ElvisFreak said:

Did that and it passed the test

Well, then I would say it's the same issue as on mine, rotor is too light and/or not enough movement to wind the watch correctly this way, the state of the oiling inside the watch, especially in the barrel could also have something to do with it

[hanski 40]

5 hours ago, ElvisFreak said:

So, I have this Yachmaster with  an asian movement...(cheapie with plastic movement holder)

Here is what it does :

if I pick it off the table and its still, I shake it a few times and it starts ticking. I wear it all day, it ticks Wy fine and even keeps great time.

But if I lay it down face up overnight, just two or three hours later it stops. I pick it up again, wear it and it starts ticking again.

So, I then thought I would manually wind it and wear it on the wrist. It kept ticking overnight and did not stop.

So, the automatic winding is not broken since it ticks when i shake it but it wont keep power if I dont wind it fully.

What is going on?

A couple things: 

You should wind an automatic about 30-40 times before wearing. This will not only get it started but get the mainspring near full tension. Then your activity will continually “top off” the power reserve so it keep running - particularly overnight when you have no activity. 

Even with that first step done, if your wrist is relatively inactive you might not actually keep “topping off” the power reserve. So while the watch has the capacity to run 30-40 hrs, it might go for 20 or less. 

And then the A2813 movement - it’s a unidirectional rotor winding movement. That means the rotor will only wind the watch if it spins one of the two directions. You may or may not have noticed but sometimes these rotors have a tendency to “helicopter” (soon extremely fast) in the non-winding direction. While the rotor is moving, it’s doing nothing to wind the watch. I’ve noticed when these rotors are oiled to spin way too freely, they often choose the nonwinding direction cause there is no resistance. 

I would try giving it a full wind before wearing and see how long it lasts - I’d be curious about the results. 

[ElvisFreak 73]

3 hours ago, Glaude said:

Well, then I would say it's the same issue as on mine, rotor is too light and/or not enough movement to wind the watch correctly this way, the state of the oiling inside the watch, especially in the barrel could also have something to do with it

ok.

i have two other ''spare'' movements and i switched the rotors.

the new rotor i fitted on the Yachty seems to fit nicely and spins. 

so lets see how that goes.

[automatico 4]

I have had this same problem with all of my 'A21' powered watches with DG, NN, Seagull ST16, and assorted no name Miyota clone movements.  I have even gone so far as to take them apart, clean all the parts in an ultrasonic watch cleaning machine, put them back together, and oil all the pivots etc. taking extra care with the balance cap/hole jewels and escape wheel teeth/pallet jewels.  The results were still the same...low running reserve.  The ST16 seems to be the best of them all but not a whole lot.  The ST16 is a Citizen/Seiko 'comboclone' with Citizen type plates and Seiko 'Magic Lever' type auto winding. 

I have a cheapo '5513' knock-around watch with the ST16 and after c/o the movement the reserve was not much better so I removed the automatic winding works and started winding it by hand.  What is the result?  It will run just fine for 35+ hours with about 30 turns of the crown.  What is the downside?  This will wear the crown and case tube out quicker so I am careful starting the crown on the tube threads, clean the case tube threads every once in a while, and lubricate the threads with silicone grease.  I will say this...the ST16 is an excellent time keeper and I have worn quite a few of them.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

What automatic movements that I have worn had the best reserve?  ETA 2450 in general and 28xx more or less (not all of them, the ETA 2892 is not so hot reserve wise), Bulova with the older movements from the 1960s/1970s, and Rolex 1530/60/70.  Never cared much for the movements in Seiko 5 (7S26/36) but the newer NH35 model may be better.  Not much of a fan of the Miyota/Citizen 82xx either...they are the basis for most of the 'A21' clones.

There is a lot to be said for manual wind movements.  

 

[Adit 642]

On 05/03/2019 at 22:21, ElvisFreak said:

So, I have this Yachmaster with  an asian movement...(cheapie with plastic movement holder)

Here is what it does :

if I pick it off the table and its still, I shake it a few times and it starts ticking. 

So, the automatic winding is not broken since it ticks when i shake it but it wont keep power if I dont wind it fully.

What is going on?

I have a similar watch. I just wear it on my right wrist, it' s always fully wound!  

[ElvisFreak 73]

On 05/03/2019 at 22:02, ElvisFreak said:

ok.

i have two other ''spare'' movements and i switched the rotors.

the new rotor i fitted on the Yachty seems to fit nicely and spins. 

so lets see how that goes.

well...it improved the power reserve  somewhat...

after the rotor switch, it seemed, without manual winding, to last one night and a full day so say... 24 to 30 hours?

It did die this morning. When I woke up at 8: 20 AM, it had stopped at about 6:05...

I kept it on the wrist and my wrist movement got it going again but despite my getting ready in the morning, combing my hair, carrying my brief to the car, moving about, the watch would intermittently stop.

I think it was because moving about was not enough "enertia" to get the rotor to wind the movement.

I think its either the rotor bearings are dry or the auto wind mechanism needs looking at....

But this is no big deal: 

this Yachty is a cheap beater I enjoy wearing without care. It looks nice fairly accurate but that's it. My other reps have ETAs and ETA clones and just wearing them for half a day will give them power reserves of 30 plus hours.

On we move.....

[ElvisFreak 73]

here is the watch in question