A2836 Winding Issue

[BadApple 13,081]

I have a virtually new SOH with a 2836 movement and when winding it is stiff and I feel resistance. The more I wind the rotor starts going round ?? 

It was fine when delivered and it works fine once I have managed to get some winds loaded. 

 

[GingerApple 7,285]

Isn't this problem caused by crappy reversing wheels? I think occasionally a good clean and oil can get them back to life, but more often than not they need replacing.*

Speak to your man Rolie, he'll have it sorted in a jiffy!

 

*PBR (Birthday) Disclaimer - I concede Pickle that I have no idea what I'm talking about and have probably just invented stuff that isn't true - I'm trying my best though! Oh, and many happy returns

[GenTLe 1,501]

Easy solution:

1) open case back and remove the rotor with its central screw

 

2) Then remove the 2 black screw here:

 

3) lift the autowind bridge and put the rest of the watch on a side:

 

4) overturn the autowind bridge, remove the only screw there and separate carefully the 4 gears. The problematic ones are the reversing wheels, which are these: 

 

5) prepare a glass with 1cm of isopropyl alcohol inside (you can find 1 liter of it for around 13€, be sure to get the 99.9% one, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/141904312907 ) and put the autowind bridge, its gears and the plate keeping the gears inside.

 

6) leave the things there for like 30 minutes, sometimes moving the parts inside or the glass with them

 

7) with the tweezers take delicately the parts out and let them dry for 5 minutes or so on a clean and lint free surface (a piece of clean glass would work fine)

 

8) now, to do it really well you should have some Lubeta V105, which is the product ETA uses to lubricate the reverse wheels. On CousinsUK you can find the 10ml bottle for less than 12€. Put half of a drop of the Lubeta V105 on the reversing wheels, move them in the drop so that the liquid penetrate inside and let them dry. Lubeta V105 is a PTFE based lubricant in suspension on a volatile media, once the media is evaporated you'll be ready to reassemble all.

 

9) reassemble the autowind bridge following this schema (if you have some Moebius HP1300 to put on the plate jewels, better):

 

10) put the autowind bridge back on the movement, and before to tight the 2 black screws that fix it to the movement, be sure the gears are well engaged (just do a turn of the wind crown), put back the rotor and that's it.

 

Cheers,  GenTLe

 

[BadApple 13,081]

Alternatively send to Rollie !!! 

[BM284 1,518]

32 minutes ago, GenTLe said:

Easy solution:

1) open case back and remove the rotor with its central screw

 

2) Then remove the 2 black screw here:

 

3) lift the autowind bridge and put the rest of the watch on a side:

 

4) overturn the autowind bridge, remove the only screw there and separate carefully the 4 gears. The problematic ones are the reversing wheels, which are these: 

 

5) prepare a glass with 1cm of isopropyl alcohol inside (you can find 1 liter of it for around 13€, be sure to get the 99.9% one, like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/141904312907 ) and put the autowind bridge, its gears and the plate keeping the gears inside.

 

6) leave the things there for like 30 minutes, sometimes moving the parts inside or the glass with them

 

7) with the tweezers take delicately the parts out and let them dry for 5 minutes or so on a clean and lint free surface (a piece of clean glass would work fine)

 

8) now, to do it really well you should have some Lubeta V105, which is the product ETA uses to lubricate the reverse wheels. On CousinsUK you can find the 10ml bottle for less than 12€. Put half of a drop of the Lubeta V105 on the reversing wheels, move them in the drop so that the liquid penetrate inside and let them dry. Lubeta V105 is a PTFE based lubricant in suspension on a volatile media, once the media is evaporated you'll be ready to reassemble all.

 

9) reassemble the autowind bridge following this schema (if you have some Moebius HP1300 to put on the plate jewels, better):

 

10) put the autowind bridge back on the movement, and before to tight the 2 black screws that fix it to the movement, be sure the gears are well engaged (just do a turn of the wind crown), put back the rotor and that's it.

 

Cheers,  GenTLe

 

That is a quality ‘how to’ post - so much so that Id have a go if I found myself in the same predicament! Top banana  (though Rolie is the plan B once I’d Royaly screwed the repair) 

[Rokerite 2,441]

Perfect example posted for the mechanically competent among us, or as others have said safest bet get Rolie to fix it, he'll have it done and back in no time for a very reasonable charge.

[Nikosaldente 630]

Go with GenTLe's advice! He knows what he's talking about!

Cheers Alex

[Piloten 332]

A short video may help

 

[BadApple 13,081]

My eyes won't help (nor do the DT's) - I'm  OK with some inward working but this is Krypton Factor to me.

@ROLIE time methinks.

[GingerApple 7,285]

Awesome Gentle! Thanks!

 Presumably this would apply to all the common rep watch movements (obviously I might need to remove, different screws etc) but would the same principles apply l? I've got a couple of Tudors that are a bit sticky.

[BIG GRUNDY 6]

Excellent write up!  thanks for taking the time to post

[Glaude 1,615]

@GenTLe Awesome tutorial here ! Maybe you already did, but you should make a separate topic with this tutorial in the appropriate section

[Piloten 332]

not the inadequate section?

It was a really well done tutorial  @GenTLe. Grazie

Edit: now the joke doesn't make sense   

[watch.aholic 538]

@GenTLe

Must appreciate the huge effort that you made to explain things so lucidly... Still it's a daunting task for someone who's not handy with these. 

[processengr 13,361]

@GenTLeBig Thanks! Excellent tech document!!! 

[GenTLe 1,501]

Com'on guys, it's nothing special, 10mins at pc

[GingerApple 7,285]

4 minutes ago, GenTLe said:

Com'on guys, it's nothing special, 10mins at pc

10 mins at a PC, but many years at a workbench.

[GenTLe 1,501]

Awesome Gentle! Thanks!
 Presumably this would apply to all the common rep watch movements (obviously I might need to remove, different screws etc) but would the same principles apply l? I've got a couple of Tudors that are a bit sticky.

Generally speaking yes, it's the same for all movements, but beware that some of them are REALLY difficult. For instance the 775x (the chrono ones, as those in non chronograph Panerai are much easier) and the 21j DG 2813 are nearly impossible for a newbie because reassembly the autowind bridge is very very tricky.
Also this is not valid for those movements with 'magic levers' like Seiko's or derivated Chinese movements as they don't have a real reversing wheel.

Instead this is a good way to fix those 7750 (again, let this to the very practical ones as it's difficult to put all back together) that suddenly don't autowind anymore due to a sticky reversing gear that spins freely in both directions. I had to do this already on 4 of my 775x based ones.

[Automotiveromance 1]

It’s a very easy fix if you’re in any way mechanically inclined. I just did it on an A2824 not too long ago. Made my own Lubeta with 3:100 9010/naphta. Works a treat

[GingerApple 7,285]

@GenTLe Would Bergeon 9010 work as a replacement lube? Or is that totally the wrong stuff? It's just that I have some handy whereas the other stuff I'll need to order....

[BadPickle 2,746]

3 minutes ago, TomatoheadFred said:

@GenTLe Would Bergeon 9010 work as a replacement lube? Or is that totally the wrong stuff? It's just that I have some handy whereas the other stuff I'll need to order....

[GingerApple 7,285]

1 minute ago, pickledbeetroot said:

STOP with the cryptic faces already!

 

[Genius 281]

Just as a side note I have had this problem a couple of times and just replaced the reverse wheels with genuine ETA ones was cheaper than buying the oil... But if I'd bought the oils I'd still have some leftover for the next time I have the issue

[Not Quite Dead 9]

GenTLe to echo those above a lucid and succinct tutorial so as soon as I have finished screwing up my latest fix I will be on it.

Thank you for taking the time.

[GenTLe 1,501]

[mention=57251]GenTLe[/mention] Would Bergeon 9010 work as a replacement lube? Or is that totally the wrong stuff? It's just that I have some handy whereas the other stuff I'll need to order....

For the reversing wheels? I tried it, it made them super stiff...