WHO HAS THE BEST SUB: Review of ZZF New Sub 116610 LN and Comparison vs. Gen, ARF, Noob and Nail (PART I)

[deju 1,859]

On 21/09/2020 at 21:05, TheGingerFerret said:

NWBIG That’s all Modern Rolex Sport divers  

bloody boring watch that I have an inner battle about haha 

[Thinwrist 66]

Just so I can take it apart and play with it. 
not trying to fool others just to entertain myself. 

[mobiles 0]

Mates I'm considering these 2 models for my first rep to buy. Which one is the right choice or  you can recommend something else?

ROLSUB0311
https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=21900
vs
ROLSUB0328A 
https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=22140

Thanks in advance

[JimN1564 28]

This is very helpful. Thanks 

[horo 5]

Great insight, hadn’t quite realised how much in detail and effort the factories go with these, and at what level we are comparing them. Looking at the pics any of these would pass as gen for the ‘common folk’ (ie. me) so I am not entirely sure why I would be paying a premium for ‘a better rep’; because I appreciate the workmanship in replicating the gen maybe?

Expect it grows on you, once you have a rep and a better model comes out - there will be an itch...  A bit like with everything, like cars for example I’m thinking.

 

 

[redchicago 0]

Now I have even more to think about 

[nunu78 1,741]

1 hour ago, redchicago said:

Now I have even more to think about 

Don’t worry as none of them are available at the moment 

[banditeleven2 0]

ZZF really looks amazing, anyone willing to part ways with one do let me know

[Johngean 2]

On 17/01/2022 at 15:26, FunnyStarSystem said:

NJ + Hublot, checks out!

Glad you're enjoying it @Johngean, what payment method did you end up using?

 

Cc before I knew maybe I should not have …

[FunnyStarSystem 7,537]

54 minutes ago, Johngean said:

Cc before I knew maybe I should not have …

Hopefully nothing will come of it, but at least you know going forward. I prefer Wise or Bitcoin, they both eliminate the foreign currency fees that cost so much, and fear of cc # getting released into the wild.

As long as you're using a TD on here you'll always get a watch or a refund, so no need to use cc or pp really.

[fatarms 7,758]

1 hour ago, Johngean said:

Cc before I knew maybe I should not have …

 

54 minutes ago, FunnyStarSystem said:

Hopefully nothing will come of it, but at least you know going forward. I prefer Wise or Bitcoin, they both eliminate the foreign currency fees that cost so much, and fear of cc # getting released into the wild.

As long as you're using a TD on here you'll always get a watch or a refund, so no need to use cc or pp really.

How the hell did you guys end up in this thread with this exchange from a completely different thread?    

[FunnyStarSystem 7,537]

16 minutes ago, fatarms said:

 

How the hell did you guys end up in this thread with this exchange from a completely different thread?    

You know, I was wondering that myself but like any good IT professional I decided not to ask questions, and just walk away very quickly 

[fatarms 7,758]

3 hours ago, FunnyStarSystem said:

You know, I was wondering that myself but like any good IT professional I decided not to ask questions, and just walk away very quickly 

I never claimed to be a good IT profe... guy.

[Ruffy 1]

Loved this read!

[danubioblen 0]

Amazing review


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xxpbgxx 0]

Would anyone know the link or site to the ZZF sellers.

[fatarms 7,758]

46 minutes ago, xxpbgxx said:

Would anyone know the link or site to the ZZF sellers.

https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/topic/60-rwg39s-trusted-dealers/

[Tony P 57]

is the ZZF still being sold , looking for a batman 

[ShepharGenrader01 0]

I will use this review whenever choosing a watch. When there is not much experience in choosing and buying watches, it isn't easy to make a clear list of criteria by which to evaluate certain models. Have you thought about creating a YouTube channel and telling about your observations? I spend a lot of time there because I'm interested in mechanical watches. On the advice of a content maker, I bought myself a watch winder  to save time on constantly debugging.  I think you could also teach a lot to novice watch lovers. Think about it. Thanks to everyone for the advice and the author for the thread!

[FudgyDocker 3,496]

25 minutes ago, ShepharGenrader01 said:

Have you thought about creating a YouTube channel

That's what these forums are for. Creating a YouTube channel discussing the pros and cons of illegal counterfeit watches probably isn't the smartest thing to do....

[Cjarrett94 0]

Hey! I’m new to this forum so I apologize if this is dumb question. I have opened this post on my iPhone and desktop and neither will show the pictures. It just shows a little blue box with a ? Mark.  Ideas?

[deju 1,859]

19 minutes ago, Cjarrett94 said:

Hey! I’m new to this forum so I apologize if this is dumb question. I have opened this post on my iPhone and desktop and neither will show the pictures. It just shows a little blue box with a ? Mark.  Ideas?

Post is 4 years old so images are dead don’t worry it’s not a problem your end. 

[Cjarrett94 0]

1 hour ago, deju said:

Post is 4 years old so images are dead don’t worry it’s not a problem your end. 

Hell. Lol. That was an incredible comparison.  

[jay dot 1]

Thanks for sharing

[mangahuisman 1]

On 19/05/2019 at 22:33, jtimewatch said:

Hello again RWG members,

 

I have posted a topic told everyone that a new rep Submariner 116610LN from ZZF is going to release soon 2 days ago, and we were preparing a deep review about it, comparison vs. Gen, ARF, Noob and Nail as well.

Here is the post link:

 

According to our knowledges, ZZF only made the Roger Dubuis Knights of Round Table reps before this new 116610LN Submariner, so it is not very familiar to the crowd.

 

But as I told in last post that we already have the real piece ZZF new Sub, and after we did some comparison with other factories version ourselves, I suppose ZZF new Sub also did a good job on many details.

 

Well, there are some other factories such as VRF, V9F also make some good submariners. We did the comparison among ARF, Noob and Nail, because they might be the most popular and best versions at the moment.

 

We will keep objective on doing this comparison, but please correct us if something we say is not right. Discussion will be always welcomed, and we wish our members can have a better rep Sub to choose and have some fun here as well.

 

So, let's get down to the review now.

 

 

General Front View of 5 Watches

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Insert Markers Close View

 

ZZF says that it is the only rep factory using real platinum plated on the insert markers at the moment. From the factory explanation, we know that the adhesive force of platinum is extremely strong after the plating procedure, which means that it will be very hard to deal with the details shaping after the platinum plating.

This might be the reason why other factories didn’t make platinum plating on their insert markers.

 

We can tell from the pictures that the gen insert markers color is kind of grey-white by the front view and will be dark-silver by the lateral view. 

 

Because of using real platinum plating, ZZF insert markers color is like gen effect, grey-white by the front view and dark-silver by the lateral view. But to be honest, its color is really some darker than the gen as we can see from the pictures.

But under the natural daylight, ZZF insert markers color will have a better performance as I see it myself. So, I will try another comparison under the natural daylight in the PART II review, let us look forward to the PART II.

 

ARF insert markers color is also good I suppose, only a little bit whiter than the gen. The plating seems a little bit rougher than the gen and ZZF.

 

Noob and Nail versions are both not very good at this part, and according to former experiences Noob color is going to fade eventually, don’t know how Nail is going yet.

 

 

Shape of the Insert Markers

 

ZZF says that it is using a mould to build the ceramic insert directly instead of laser engraving markers on insert, then 3D effect will be much better than laser engraving as a result. As the picture shows, the bottom and side edge of the marker is very smooth and it is a perfect right-angle between the bottom and side edge, closer effect to the gen as well as the depth.

 

ARF is also using a mould to build the ceramic I suppose, shape and depth are also close to the gen as well as ZZF, not bad but just a little bit rougher. 

 

Noob and Nail, are both using laser engraving markers and I think you all already know what is the result.

 

 

 

Pearl Triangle Close View

 

ZZF pearl is very close to the gen at its shape, color and “jade-like” effect and it is fitted in a 0.43mm small hole on the ceramic insert, will be the only one can replace perfectly with a gen pearl.

 

ARF pearl is also a very good built at its shape and color as well as ZZF pearl.

 

Noob pearl seems not very good, no matter on which details.

 

Nail pearl is likely good at its shape, but the color is bit whiter than others.

 

And about the triangle, we can see the edge of the triangle is very near the insert edge on the gen.

But seems all the factories made the same mistake, only Nail did it a little bit better on this part. It is a pretty shame I suppose.

 

Tips: ZZF is using Clean Factory upgraded V2 bezel and inset set, all friction fitted as same as gen. ARF bezel and insert set is friction fitted as well and Noob version is glue fitted. We are not sure how Nail version fit now, but I think we may find out later and tell everyone in the PART II review and comparison.

 

 

 

Crystal Side View

 

ZZF crystal assembly is very good I suppose, very close to the gen with a rounded edge from the side view,

 

ARF crystal assembly might be worst one among all the 5 watches, the crystal seems too thick so that too much higher than others.

 

Noob crystal assembly is good as well, but only a little bit thicker and higher.

 

Nail crystal assembly is very good as well as ZZF, also very close to the gen.

 

 

Cyclops Lateral View

 

ZZF says that it is using the new tech to plate very light blue AR coating around the edge of the bubble crystal as same as genuine, as a result so there will not be too much light reflection cause unclear seeing the date as other factories versions. And the side of the bubble crystal is dealt with sanding tech in order to create a little frosted effect closer to the genuine.

 

 

Cyclops Front View

 

ZZF bubble crystal is very clear with less light reflection and we can see a thin “white line” around the edge of the bubble as well because of the sanding tech.

 

ARF bubble crystal seems be with more light reflection, and as many people said its date wheel font seems too fat.

 

Noob bubble crystal has the same issue as ARF I suppose, with a thinner font.

 

Nail did a good job on this part. It is very clear and reflection is good as well as the whole effect.

 

Tip: Want to see more date wheel font? Please just keep reading, you will find some more details about it later on this review.

 

 

Dial Cambered Edge

 

As we can see that the center hole and date window on ZZF dial are built with cambered edge very close to the genuine, and it will be the only one doing it at the moment.

 

 

Date Display Window Lateral View

 

ZZF window edge is cambered very close to the gen, and making a cambered edge on an enamel dial is extremely hard.

 

ARF window edge is also cambered close to the gen, and this is a good job as well.

 

Noob and Nail are both wrong at this detail with a sharp trapezoid window edge.

 

 

 

 

Dial Marker Close View

 

ZZF triangle marker, rectangle marker and dot marker are all with rounded edge.

 

ARF triangle marker and dot marker are with rounded edge, but the rectangle marker rounded edge is not very obvious and seems a bit sharp.

 

Noob all markers are with sharp edge, seems not very good.

 

Nail triangle marker, rectangle marker and dot marker are all with rounded edge, but it seems that rectangle and dot markers are not very obviously rounded.

 

I suppose ARF is the best one at dot markers, and ZZF is the best one at triangle marker and rectangle markers.

 

 

Superlume Filling Front View

 

ZZF says that it is using the same blue color Luminova material which is well-proportioned filling as the gen, and the granular effect of Luminova material is stronger than other swiss lume materials. There is very small 0.15mm height between the lume material and the top edge of the marker, and it is also very hard to do.

 

It looks like that there is a little transparent effect when you look close enough at the genuine lume material, and I think all the factories did this effect right except Noob. But I suppose ZZF is the best one regarding to the granular effect.

 

Another thing I want to tell is that one of our teammates owns a 2014 version gen sub, and the lume material on his sub is already getting a little bit darker than before. I’d like to say I think the gen Luminova material is just kind of ordinary to be honest, even though it is the bluest lume I’ve ever seen when it’s shining. Maybe sometimes genuine sub can make some upgrading as well, hahahaha.

 

 

Dial Font Printing View

 

As we all can see, the font printing on the gen dial is different between the first line “SUBMARINER” and the second to forth line.

 

I suppose ZZF is the best one at this part with obvious different fonts. ARF is not right as well as Noob, and I think Noob V7 did such different fonts for a while but now all gone if I remember it right.

 

Nail did a closer trial but the font on second to forth line is too thin as we can see, especially “1000ft = 300m” part.

 

 

Hand Stack Close View

 

Well, ZZF is obviously the only factory making a solid hand hole at the moment, it might save you some time and some money to upgrade this part I suppose lol.

 

 

SEL and Lug Close View

 

ZZF made the lug radian and SEL radian to be the same, and also a small height between lug and SEL. But the height between lug and SEL on ZZF is obviously smaller than the gen.

 

ARF also made a height between lug and SEL, but it is a little bit bigger than gen. And the lug radian and SEL radian is not same as we can see from the picture.

 

Noob is obviously wrong again at this part I suppose, barely no height.

 

Nail did a good job on this part, small height between lug and SEL close to the gen, only problem is that radian is likely not same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date Font Close View (1-31)

 

Many members pay a lot of attention on the rep Sub date wheel, so I believe these pictures above will help you all to see it all clearly from Date 1 to Date 31.

 

 

Here are some more pictures below to some details, I’d prefer to say nothing and let you guys spot it by yourselves lol.

 

 

Markers at 6 O’clock Position

 

 

Crown Side View

 

 

Side View

 

 

Case Back View

 

 

 

Ok guys, due to our time schedule, I think it will be the end of our PART I review and comparison now.

Thank you all for your reading!

Like I said at the beginning of this topic, we are trying our best to be objective, but please correct us if we are not right on something, and everyone will be welcomed to leave comment and discussion here as always.

 

And yeah, I know some details that people want to see were not shown in this topic yet. 

But don’t worry. As I mentioned in this topic title that this is a PART I review, so there will be a PART II coming soon as well.

Actually, we are planning to tear the watches apart (maybe not the new GEN lol) and do a deeper comparison on some other parts such as hands, dial, bracelet, case, crown and etc.

Please keep on attention to it, I think you will see more interesting things in our PART II review.

 

Why are the pictures not working anymore?

 

OK, see you guys soon and cheers.

Here is the PART II review link below:

 

 

 

All the best

Li