WHO HAS THE BEST SUB: Review of ZZF New Sub 116610 LN and Comparison vs. Gen, ARF, Noob and Nail (PART II)

[jtimewatch 25]

Hello guys,

After a few days preparation, I finally can post this PART II review and comparison now.
Sorry for the long waiting to you all.
If someone has not seen the PART I before, here is the link below:

And at the beginning, I still want to say that we will keep the objective attitude on this comparison. If anything I said is not proper, please just correct me.

So, let's get down to the PART II review now.



Materials for the Review



Definition of Front Glass

We used a white color A4 paper as the background for the comparison. After the comparison all 4 factories are pretty much the same, only a very tiny slight difference among each other. 
ZZF and Nail might be a very little bit better.

And according to ZZF explained, its front sapphire is using double sided AR coating make the crystal clearer. As single sided AR coating can increase 25% more definition and double sided AR coating can increase 50% more definition.



Thickness of Front Glass

Well, I have to say all 4 factories did  almost a same job on this. 

As ZZF said, the genuine glass thickness is exact 2.0mm and it's usual that there is small thicker difference within 0.05mm when producing a rep sapphire. And the thickness of the sapphire may affect the cyclops halo effect.



Laser Crown at 6 Position

I'd like to say none of these 4 factories did a good job on this, compare with genuine.
And it seems that ARF looks even better than genuine as it has a very clear "Crown" shape there. I am not sure how to define this, and asking someone else can give us a guide lol.





Rehaut Close View

Yes, many of our members already have spotted it from PART I review and pictures from our website.
And we all can tell from the picture above, the rehaut engraving on the new ZZF sub is not aligned well, especially at the 6 position it's very obvious.

And about the building tech, ZZF, ARF and Nail are all using laser to make the engraving. Noob is the only one using corrosion tech to make the engraving even though it is good at the looking appearance.









Ceramic Insert View

We already did a comparison about insert in the PART I review, and these pictures above were taken under natural daylight, so I think it might help more for you to define which one is better.

And from the back side of the insert, we can know that the genuine, ZZF and ARF are friction fitted, Noob and Nail are using glue fitted.





Steel Bezel View

ZZF is using Clean Factory V2 bezel set as I have mentioned in PART I review, and the fitting method is same like the genuine.

About the bezel teeth, I think you all can tell from the picture.
Noob teeth is too small and is the only one seems too far different from the gen.







Bezel Assembly

As we have already sold so many ARF and Noob subs before, we have noticed that the feeling of turning bezel can not be close to the gen.
After we teared those rep watches apart, I think you might already know why the feeling can not be close to gen.
Like the pictures showed, ARF and Noob are using a rounded tiny screw on the holding spring, and Nail's little screw is not even very rounded.
ZZF is the only one using a tiny ball on the spring, so the feeling of turning bezel will be the closest to genuine even though there is still little different feeling I felt personally there.





























Bracelet and Clasp View

Here are some bracelet and clasp comparison pictures above. Hope that we didn't miss some details you want to see.

We have tried ARF bracelet and ZZF bracelet to fit on the gen case, both can fit on well.
And we were guessing that Noob and Nail are using the same bracelet factory or supplier, as we can see the same "ST9" code and almost the same details, but it's only a guessing though.

After a careful comparison, I think ARF makes the best rep bracelet among these 4 rep watches.



Pearl View under Daylight



ZZF Pearl Structure

We have teared ZZF pearl apart from its steel pedestal and we found that there is a tiny curved space on the back side of the pearl sapphire. 
From Clean Factory told, it is very hard to make that on a tiny pearl sapphire and it will give the pearl a more 3D effect. The Luminova material is filled into this tiny curved space on the back side of the pearl sapphire instead, which requires very experienced tech as well. And because the pearl is also friction fitted on the pedestal, they said they will need to make sure that there is a very tiny gap like 0.05mm between the Luminova material and the edge of the sapphire, in case of breaking the Luminova when press the pearl on its pedestal. And as it is friction fitted without any glue, so this structure avoid the chemical reaction between Luminova and glue, in other words the color of the pearl can stay the same for a long time.



Dial Front View

ZZF dial is the only one has the rounded effect both on center hole and date window edge.





Dial Printing View

Maybe it's not fair that we compare all these 4 reps to a 2018/2019 new gen sub on this part, because all of them were made in different timing. 
But the Rolex printing tech is keeping the same for years as we were told, especially we can define it on the font of downside 4 lines of words, fatter font for SUBMARINER and thinner font for other 3 lines. From the picture, ZZF and Nail will be closer to genuine at this part.







ZZF Hand Stack and Hand View

Firstly, I want to say sorry to everyone that we indeed did take some pictures of every versions' hands but something wrong happened and it seems that we lost those pictures. So we only have the ZZF hands picture posted.

But from our comparison, I'd like to say that ARF hands are the best with a better 3D effect and ZZF has the correct solid hand hole.


Well, some more ZZF details as below will be the end of this review, as I am really tired of typing anymore at the moment.



ZZF Lume Effect vs. Gen View







ZZF Triangle Marker and Rectangle Markers





ZZF Dial View


OK, hope you will like this review and comparison we did.

Well, like what I said at the beginning of this topic, we will try to keep an objective attitude on this topic. Everyone will be welcomed to leave any comments you want and have a nice discussion about it.

And we will keep bringing more review and comparison on other models here in the future I suppose. Just keep in touch.

Thank you all for the comments and thoughts sharing about all these watches, I believe what your posts will make RWG a better place to hang out with as well.

Cheers!


All the best
Li
 

[vbastos 127]

Nice review. Thank you very much for sharing.

[Glaude 1,615]

Again, much excellent ! 

[tamomota 0]

excellent review

[Mystery Shopper 5,887]

Thank you Li. The difference in fonts on the dial has been talked about for years. It was nice to see them side by side.

[BadApple 13,081]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this review is slanted and potentially inaccurate for what is clearly a commercial advantage and members here seem to be falling for it. 

[Dylan88888 24]

A lot of hard work and well done. 

[Chiquita Fanjita 1,776]

34 minutes ago, Badapple said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but this review is slanted and potentially inaccurate for what is clearly a commercial advantage and members here seem to be falling for it. 

True there is more emphasis on the ZZF model, but there is no denying that again this is a detailed and fully comprehensive review on all the latest Submariners from the major factories compared to a genuine model. It is so thorough that it has been made a sticky to aid the age old question of “Who has the best sub?”.

From the vast collection of comparison pictures, members can easily make their own mind up as to what model they feel looks the best in their own eyes.

To me the ZZF is good in a lot of areas and the ARF and Noob better in others. Whereas the Nail just doesn’t tickle my pickle at all.  Despite the descriptions maybe being slanted towards the ZZF, it’s the pictures that speak a thousand words, and ultimately what members will make their decisions on.

[Dylan88888 24]

30 minutes ago, Badapple said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but this review is slanted and potentially inaccurate for what is clearly a commercial advantage and members here seem to be falling for it. 

Think we may only know the quality of the finished product once  we get a few over this way. However, more competition can only help improve the quality of the chase for the mythical perfect sub. 

[FudgyDocker 3,497]

49 minutes ago, Badapple said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but this review is slanted and potentially inaccurate for what is clearly a commercial advantage and members here seem to be falling for it. 

I'm happy with my Kev FF special, and can't see me wanting a different one, but good to see that someone has made the effort to do all these macro shots, even if they are trying to flog their mate's watch. Won't stop the bloody question being asked either though, I reckon.

[jtimewatch 25]

48 minutes ago, Badapple said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but this review is slanted and potentially inaccurate for what is clearly a commercial advantage and members here seem to be falling for it. 

Yes mate, you are not wrong. People will clearly know that we might have a close relationship with ZZF as well after we did these reviews.

So I have said that everyone will welcomed to correct me if my opinions about these watches were not proper or just totally wrong, because I knew I might be slanted on some opinions and I am not a native English speaker as well so I might use some wrong words sometimes when describe some details.

Anyways, I think these pictures can tell much more words than anyone, they can clearly show who is doing best on many specific details and people can judge easily by themselves instead of reading my words I suppose.

Every each of these watches are not absolutely perfect comparing to gen, they all have their pros and cons as a true fact.

 

[jtimewatch 25]

34 minutes ago, Chiquita Fanjita said:

From the vast collection of comparison pictures, members can easily make their own mind up as to what model they feel looks the best in their own eyes.

Thank you, and I agree with you.

From our selling records over other forums, in fact it doesn't change many things. People who likes ARF or Noob still buy what they like or what they want, and we don't mislead them at all.

[CurioLeo 296]

The review might be biased but really, who cares ? The photos are there for all to see - unless of course the photos don't belong to the maker they have been attributed to. Anyway,  it looks like it is worth buying a ZZF just to find out. When is it available?

[BadApple 13,081]

53 minutes ago, jtimewatch said:

Yes mate, you are not wrong. People will clearly know that we might have a close relationship with ZZF as well after we did these reviews.

So I have said that everyone will welcomed to correct me if my opinions about these watches were not proper or just totally wrong, because I knew I might be slanted on some opinions and I am not a native English speaker as well so I might use some wrong words sometimes when describe some details.

Anyways, I think these pictures can tell much more words than anyone, they can clearly show who is doing best on many specific details and people can judge easily by themselves instead of reading my words I suppose.

Every each of these watches are not absolutely perfect comparing to gen, they all have their pros and cons as a true fact.

 

ADVERTORIAL  - how do we know they are images of the other factories watches? Hardly likely to sue you are they ..... 

[NCRich 13,745]

Great review and rather exhaustive picture taking.   Don't worry about the whiners, they would complain about a wet dream.  Even if you have a biased opinion you gave us the information to make up our own minds.

[Thommo82 1,397]

I’m curious about the LEC, especially on the gen. Now you would think that Rolex themselves would have this as perfect as possible, or at least perfect in their own eyes.

Hard to tell from a single pic, but I’m wondering if the laser etched dots on the gen are actually positioned at different depths of the crystal, giving it that mismatched, one might say, ugly look?

I imagine a process like this is much more difficult to achieve (and to recreate) than simply making a perfect crown all on one layer.

Anyone else have an insight, or some actual knowledge on this?

Oh, and it looks like Stevie Wonder was employed to etch for NOOB.

[VMSG 2]

Wow, great review mate!
I don't like this watch and I still enjoyed reading this review

[Glaude 1,615]

3 hours ago, Thommo82 said:

I’m curious about the LEC, especially on the gen. Now you would think that Rolex themselves would have this as perfect as possible, or at least perfect in their own eyes.

Hard to tell from a single pic, but I’m wondering if the laser etched dots on the gen are actually positioned at different depths of the crystal, giving it that mismatched, one might say, ugly look?

I imagine a process like this is much more difficult to achieve (and to recreate) than simply making a perfect crown all on one layer.

Anyone else have an insight, or some actual knowledge on this?

Oh, and it looks like Stevie Wonder was employed to etch for NOOB.

Indeed it's surprising but remember that this was introduced quite some time ago, and was an attempt to counter the counterfeit market a little bit, I'm pretty sure they knew this wouldn't stand for long and didn't care to refine it.
Plus we are in the realm of tiny detail that perhaps don't get the same QC as other part of the watch, meaning that badly engraved LEC could be a thing.
In the end it's not supposed to be seen that close, I think this was more a "is it present or not" rather than "is it well made or not" 

But those are just my wild guesses  

4 hours ago, Badapple said:

how do we know they are images of the other factories watches? Hardly likely to sue you are they ..... 

Mystery shopper post and Jtime post are quite clear, nothing is hidden there, and other pics are sometime superior to the ZZF release and a lot of people aren't convinced that the ZZF is the better release, so if it was a blatant lie just to increase the sale, it has failed, so no worries there  

[mattpne 64]

Thanks for taking the time to take and post all these detailed pics. Appreciate it. 

[steve112 0]

Great review. I personally had a Noob for several years. The only issue that started to bother me was that the steel bezel edges were much sharper compared to the gen

[Nikosaldente 630]

At least it's a great Photo Comparison Side by Side!

[k4jun 251]

On 25/05/2019 at 11:47, Badapple said:

ADVERTORIAL  - how do we know they are images of the other factories watches? Hardly likely to sue you are they ..... 

 

For my eyes they look correct.
Noob = in overall nice watch, but flat SEL, sharp clasp and skinny bezel engravings. ARF = rounded hands&clasp, nice SEL but super deep bezel engravings and a fat case.
Also, the combination of the clasp codes, rehauts and dial indekses do look like a "typical Noob" and "typical ARF".

Ib4, OP posted a thread where he tried V1 of this bezel on various reps, One of them was VRF and he concluded this gen spec bezel cannot be installed on VRF, what is true as VRF/BP does not take gen bezel, so yeah I am confident he had VRF in the hands too.

I think OP was fair and he used the real things, the 'genuine reps' from the quoted factories, lol

[k4jun 251]

On 25/05/2019 at 13:04, Thommo82 said:

I’m curious about the LEC, especially on the gen. Now you would think that Rolex themselves would have this as perfect as possible, or at least perfect in their own eyes.

Hard to tell from a single pic, but I’m wondering if the laser etched dots on the gen are actually positioned at different depths of the crystal, giving it that mismatched, one might say, ugly look?

I imagine a process like this is much more difficult to achieve (and to recreate) than simply making a perfect crown all on one layer.

Anyone else have an insight, or some actual knowledge on this?

Oh, and it looks like Stevie Wonder was employed to etch for NOOB.

Correct mate. Gen LEC = those small stars are placed in different angles and different deep at the crystal. I gues the fuckers did is on purpose.

[jtimewatch 25]

1 hour ago, k4jun said:

Correct mate. Gen LEC = those small stars are placed in different angles and different deep at the crystal. I gues the fuckers did is on purpose.

Nice K4, you are  a real pro .

[ThomLV 3]

Nice job! Many thanks for this, it has become a nice reference work!