scammers

[a2raya83 0]

long story short, i was selling used canon slrs on ebay and never had a problem until one of the buyers claimed he never received it and thus filed a paypal dispute with me.

 

thankfully, i always quickly deposited the money into my bank account and never let it "linger" in paypal. anyways, i scoffed at this dispute because i had ordered electronic signature confirmation as well as tracking and a USPS insurance. right away I checked the signature confirmation and saw his exact name. i forwarded this information to paypal. do you know what happened???? I LOST THE DISPUTE! this was because anything over 200 dollars needs to have the traditional signature confirmation and not electronic even if it shows his name on it.

 

paypal refunded the buyer's money by charging my AMEX that was on record with Paypal. the joke was on them as i just forwarded the documents to AMEX and they agreed with me and chargebacked paypal. the only unfortunate aspect of this ordeal was the scammer got away with both a product and his monies.

 

thinking about it i should have alerted USPS of this fraud, but im happy with AMEX's resolution. based on this, if you were to sell any product for that much of a cost, i would order traditional signature confirmation (the one with the card you get back) and insurance. you will be well protected.

[RacingSnake 2]

I think it's a trust and decency thing on both parts.

You have just as many concerns as a buyer... suppose I were to pay for a PAM111H from you, and you send it recorded delivery, I sign for it and open it to find you've actually sent me a $10 Casio. You could argue that you sent me the PAM and that it's me that's swapped it for a Casio, but I could argue that you sent me the Casio claiming it's a PAM you've sent. It really is concerning, and I hate the fact there are scum out there that would even contemplate either scamming as a seller, or scamming as a buyer.

[JohnG 41]

I think it's a trust and decency thing on both parts.

Yup, no matter how much protection you have, you can't protect against everything, you just have to rely on the fact that most people are decent. There aren't THAT many smoola's out there.

[wimpie007 108]

Well post count doesnt mean anything i think. I know i'm a noobie here but am also on the other boards(no noobie there ;-) , this would mean no-one would sell to me/buy from me based on my status here?

 

There will always be guys who have posted a lot, get into a jam and try and run with your well earned money

 

I think more along the lines of how much someone is contributing(posting pics, usefull tips and so on) to the forum and indeed people vouching for someone who they have done business with.

Someone who is active and enjoys this place will think long and hard about their status being down the drain right?

Edited May 19, 2011 by wimpie007

[Dragonscape 0]

Yes, it at least show someone at the address accepted the delivery. This would be cheaper than tracking.

 

 

And a lot less trouble than having "Bruno" make a visit

[vfsvfl 0]

IMHO the one that is selling is much more likely to be the scammer.

+1

 

Is it just me or is it particularly ironic that on a site populated by "trusted" sellers, now it's the buyer's we don't trust?

[vfsvfl 0]

IMHO, someone out to scam you will jump through whatever post-count or "contribution" hoops are invented.

 

What nobody pointed out yet is that refusing to sell to some segment of members will probably result in lower prices. Less risk (or less perceived risk) has a "cost."

 

The hard-copy signature requirement seems like a good suggestion. I hope to sell a couple of my rep watches here (to raise funds for --more rep watches) & so I look forward to watching /reading as this thread continues.

[wat44 0]

how do I get paid by Western Union?

 

and wat is AP please?

[kan3 0]

AP = AlertPay.

MB = MoneyBookers

WB = WebMoney

 

All these payment gateways don't allow refunds.

 

 

I think Escrow is good too.

[offshore 0]

how do I get paid by Western Union?

Watt,

You give the buyer your name and address.

He gives you a claim code.

You got to a WU outlet (most PO's), prove who you are with a drivers licence, quote the claim code, and they hand you the cash.

The only down side is the buyer knows your name and addy, but if all is above board, there is no issue IMO.

O/S

[pfcdre 0]

If purchased from members before,also only send signed for if possible, honesty has to be a requirement. I honestly believe this forum does a great job of filtering out dodgy people, smoolagate was a rare occurence im sure.

[David543 0]

If purchased from members before,also only send signed for if possible, honesty has to be a requirement. I honestly believe this forum does a great job of filtering out dodgy people, smoolagate was a rare occurence im sure.

+ loads

I think we need to remember that in general MOST people are honest. I think this forum filters out the dishonest pretty well. I woulld look at the posts and see if someone seemed like an asshole or not. Part of the problem with society is that people no longer trust each other like they used to because we all hear of the 'bad apples' because of our interconnectedness as a society. I'm not saying take no precautions, but we don't want to live in a society ruled by fear. It would be a shame if Smooler's real legacy was that we don't trust each other. If we do that he really did win here.

 

We can't allow that guys. (cue stiring music)

 

The 'trust thread' is actually how pretty good privacy works so has been shown to be effective. But most people on here have really big hearts, you just have to look at the posts to see that! I was just thinking of some examples, and the great thing is that I kept on coming up with one after another.

[pfcdre 0]

If purchased from members before,also only send signed for if possible, honesty has to be a requirement. I honestly believe this forum does a great job of filtering out dodgy people, smoolagate was a rare occurence im sure.

+ loads

I think we need to remember that in general MOST people are honest. I think this forum filters out the dishonest pretty well. I woulld look at the posts and see if someone seemed like an asshole or not. Part of the problem with society is that people no longer trust each other like they used to because we all hear of the 'bad apples' because of our interconnectedness as a society. I'm not saying take no precautions, but we don't want to live in a society ruled by fear. It would be a shame if Smooler's real legacy was that we don't trust each other. If we do that he really did win here.

 

We can't allow that guys. (cue stiring music)

 

The 'trust thread' is actually how pretty good privacy works so has been shown to be effective. But most people on here have really big hearts, you just have to look at the posts to see that! I was just thinking of some examples, and the great thing is that I kept on coming up with one after another.

Well put David, thats exactly how i feel, i have bought from 4 members here, at the time i was a real noob, but because of how safe this forum makes me feel i never even considered getting scammed, why because i guess i have a trusting nature, also this forum has a kind of good vibe about it, and dont forget, the members that were kind enough to sell to me didnt know me very well, i had only been a member a week or two from my first order, so they had to trust me without references etc. I guess what im trying to say is its always been a sellers perogative to sell to who they want and if you dont like the "look" of someone then you have the right to decline, i think its down to the seller to do relevent checks if they have doubts. As for buyers "pretending" they never recieved a parcel well im sure the forum investigation team could get to the bottom of any prob. cheers

[greg_r 84]

the forum investigation team

 

 

 

[wat44 0]

I still dont see how a trusted buyer system would hurt anyone...

[trailboss99 997]

I have wayyyy to many watches and have even more ordered and on the way...

 

but wat prevents the buyer saying he never got the watch and claiming the paypal refund? would I be screwed?

By PP's own rules no but as witnessed below they don't always follow them.

 

Simply stick to trusted members (VIPs)

 

MOTE TO ALL: VIP is NOT a measure of trust! Anyone can buy a VIP for 39 bucks, how does that equate to trust? The admin and owners of RWG do not in any way guarantee the bona fides or sincerity of VIP members.

 

 

long story short, i was selling used canon slrs on ebay and never had a problem until one of the buyers claimed he never received it and thus filed a paypal dispute with me.

 

thankfully, i always quickly deposited the money into my bank account and never let it "linger" in paypal. anyways, i scoffed at this dispute because i had ordered electronic signature confirmation as well as tracking and a USPS insurance. right away I checked the signature confirmation and saw his exact name. i forwarded this information to paypal. do you know what happened???? I LOST THE DISPUTE! this was because anything over 200 dollars needs to have the traditional signature confirmation and not electronic even if it shows his name on it.

 

paypal refunded the buyer's money by charging my AMEX that was on record with Paypal. the joke was on them as i just forwarded the documents to AMEX and they agreed with me and chargebacked paypal. the only unfortunate aspect of this ordeal was the scammer got away with both a product and his monies.

 

thinking about it i should have alerted USPS of this fraud, but im happy with AMEX's resolution. based on this, if you were to sell any product for that much of a cost, i would order traditional signature confirmation (the one with the card you get back) and insurance. you will be well protected.

Well tyhat is stuffed because by their own rules PP only require proof of shipping, not delivery.

 

 

The only down side is the buyer knows your name and addy, but if all is above board, there is no issue IMO.

O/S

You are assuming the addy on my DL is actually me address