A2824 Stuck Reversing Wheel - Can I fix this myself?

[squid9 0]

Hey guys,

I have a Tudor Black Bay rep with an A2824 movement that's less than a year old. I've barely worn the watch, but when I put it on today and wound it to get the movement started I felt the entire rotor spin. The watch was shaking and very difficult to wind.

A bit of research points to the reversing wheel being stuck. The posters on WUS said it's likely that a cleaning is all that's needed to fix the issue unless there's damage to the parts themselves.

My question for you all is whether this is simple enough for me to fix myself, or if I need professional help. I'm mechanically inclined but don't have any real experience repairing mechanical watches. I don't know any watch makers that service reps, so it its relatively easy to fix I'd be interested in trying myself.

Thanks!

[cosmic2000 3]

Hello squid, if you have a look at youtube and the watch repair chanel you will find a video tutorial how to take apart a 2824 and put it together afterwards. There you can decide if you can manage it by yourself and what tools do you need.

Regards c2000

[BadPickle 2,738]

@squid9

look here-

 

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/the-2824-2836/207022-dismantle-2824-2-movement-step-by-step

[GenTLe 1,490]

If you have small enough screwdrivers (for that job you'll need a 1.2 and a 1.6mm), some isopropyl alcohol, a sticky ball to open it and a good tweezers, it isn't a difficult task.

Bonus: lubeta v105 to lubricate the wheel before reinstalling.

[squid9 0]

@pickledbeetroot

Thanks! Unfortunately it looks like photobucket is holding the pictures hostage. Any chance there's a mirror of that thread somewhere where the pics are visible?

I'm pretty busy these days, but if I get around to taking the watch apart I'll snap some pics and post back here.

[hanski 40]

1 hour ago, squid9 said:

@pickledbeetroot

Thanks! Unfortunately it looks like photobucket is holding the pictures hostage. Any chance there's a mirror of that thread somewhere where the pics are visible?

I'm pretty busy these days, but if I get around to taking the watch apart I'll snap some pics and post back here.

Not a mirror of that tutorial but a great walkthrough. 

 

[BC1221 44]

Just buy a set of ETA ones. It’s better than trying to fix it and possibly causing more damage. There’s no telling what’s been in those wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GenTLe 1,490]

On 09/11/2019 at 02:22, BC1221 said:

Just buy a set of ETA ones. It’s better than trying to fix it and possibly causing more damage. There’s no telling what’s been in those wheels.
 

Actually I've to disagree with this. Because of the following reasons:

- ETA ones still come very dry and hard. Already tried that way... They still need to be passed through a isopropile alcohol and lubeta v105 to perform well

- The tasks to replace them are the same tasks needed to take out the current ones and put them back after cleaning, so the possibility of making damages are the same

To fix the problem:

1. open the caseback

2. remove the oscillating weight (rotor) with the 1.6mm screwdriver and the central screw

3. unscrew the 2 black screws that keeps the autowind bridge in place (1 / 1.2mm screwdriver) and remove it from the movement - put the watch with the rest of the movement on a side, covered to avoid dust. The autowind bridge is this one: 

 

4. overturn the autowind bridge to have it in this position (very dirty one in this picture):

 

5. unscrew the screw that is keeping all the gears in place and remove all the gears.

6. put all the gears and the bridges into a bath of isopropile alcohol and delicately rub them with a small brush. Leave them in the bath for some 30 minutes or so.

7. take them out of the bath and leave them to dry on a lint-free surface. In 5 minutes or so they'll be completely dry and clean

8. BONUS: if you have lubeta V105 put a drop of it on the 2 reversing wheels, those 2 gears with the cuts/holes in them, be sure that the lubeta penetrate in them, then put them on a clean surface to dry (I use the bottom of a glass)

9. reassemble all in the reverse order. Use this as a guide:

 

10. BONUS: put a microscopic amount of Moebius HP1300 as indicated in the previous pictures (apart the 2 reversing wheels that are ok with the Lubeta V105)

11. first put back the autowind bridge on the movement (take care that the gears are in proper position and engagement with the rest of the movement before doing the final screw-down on the 2 black screws... Put the bridge on the movement, point the 2 screws, manual wind the watch from the crown and see that the gears of the autowind bridge will move freely while you manual wind. Then tight the screws)

12. put the rotor back, again before to tight the central screw be sure it is correctly engaging the gears below.

 

[Not Quite Dead 9]

As always helpful and expert, nice one GenTLe

[splke 4,372]

1 hour ago, GenTLe said:

Actually I've to disagree with this. Because of the following reasons:

- ETA ones still come very dry and hard. Already tried that way... They still need to be passed through a isopropile alcohol and lubeta v105 to perform well

- The tasks to replace them are the same tasks needed to take out the current ones and put them back after cleaning, so the possibility of making damages are the same

To fix the problem:

1. open the caseback

2. remove the oscillating weight (rotor) with the 1.6mm screwdriver and the central screw

3. unscrew the 2 black screws that keeps the autowind bridge in place (1 / 1.2mm screwdriver) and remove it from the movement - put the watch with the rest of the movement on a side, covered to avoid dust. The autowind bridge is this one: 

 

4. overturn the autowind bridge to have it in this position (very dirty one in this picture):

 

5. unscrew the screw that is keeping all the gears in place and remove all the gears.

6. put all the gears and the bridges into a bath of isopropile alcohol and delicately rub them with a small brush. Leave them in the bath for some 30 minutes or so.

7. take them out of the bath and leave them to dry on a lint-free surface. In 5 minutes or so they'll be completely dry and clean

8. BONUS: if you have lubeta V105 put a drop of it on the 2 reversing wheels, those 2 gears with the cuts/holes in them, be sure that the lubeta penetrate in them, then put them on a clean surface to dry (I use the bottom of a glass)

9. reassemble all in the reverse order. Use this as a guide:

 

10. BONUS: put a microscopic amount of Moebius HP1300 as indicated in the previous pictures (apart the 2 reversing wheels that are ok with the Lubeta V105)

11. first put back the autowind bridge on the movement (take care that the gears are in proper position and engagement with the rest of the movement before doing the final screw-down on the 2 black screws... Put the bridge on the movement, point the 2 screws, manual wind the watch from the crown and see that the gears of the autowind bridge will move freely while you manual wind. Then tight the screws)

12. put the rotor back, again before to tight the central screw be sure it is correctly engaging the gears below.

 

Brilliant makes me want to try! It's OK @ROLIEI won't x 

[GingerApple 7,272]

Should be a sticky tutorial!

[Rokerite 2,437]

3 hours ago, splke said:

Brilliant makes me want to try! It's OK @ROLIEI won't x 

You are BANNED from tinkering 

[BC1221 44]

Actually I've to disagree with this. Because of the following reasons:
- ETA ones still come very dry and hard. Already tried that way... They still need to be passed through a isopropile alcohol and lubeta v105 to perform well
- The tasks to replace them are the same tasks needed to take out the current ones and put them back after cleaning, so the possibility of making damages are the same
To fix the problem:
1. open the caseback
2. remove the oscillating weight (rotor) with the 1.6mm screwdriver and the central screw
3. unscrew the 2 black screws that keeps the autowind bridge in place (1 / 1.2mm screwdriver) and remove it from the movement - put the watch with the rest of the movement on a side, covered to avoid dust. The autowind bridge is this one: 

 
4. overturn the autowind bridge to have it in this position (very dirty one in this picture):

 
5. unscrew the screw that is keeping all the gears in place and remove all the gears.
6. put all the gears and the bridges into a bath of isopropile alcohol and delicately rub them with a small brush. Leave them in the bath for some 30 minutes or so.
7. take them out of the bath and leave them to dry on a lint-free surface. In 5 minutes or so they'll be completely dry and clean
8. BONUS: if you have lubeta V105 put a drop of it on the 2 reversing wheels, those 2 gears with the cuts/holes in them, be sure that the lubeta penetrate in them, then put them on a clean surface to dry (I use the bottom of a glass)
9. reassemble all in the reverse order. Use this as a guide:

 
10. BONUS: put a microscopic amount of Moebius HP1300 as indicated in the previous pictures (apart the 2 reversing wheels that are ok with the Lubeta V105)
11. first put back the autowind bridge on the movement (take care that the gears are in proper position and engagement with the rest of the movement before doing the final screw-down on the 2 black screws... Put the bridge on the movement, point the 2 screws, manual wind the watch from the crown and see that the gears of the autowind bridge will move freely while you manual wind. Then tight the screws)
12. put the rotor back, again before to tight the central screw be sure it is correctly engaging the gears below.
 

Well. Yea. I guess I just assumed OP had a way to oil them. Either way, if your reversing wheels are jamming up, do not hand wind them with the automatic works in place.


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[GingerApple 7,272]

8 minutes ago, BC1221 said:

 

If your reversing wheels are jamming up, do not hand wind them with the automatic works in place.

 

I did this on one of mine recently. Thought I could finesse it. Ended up snapping the stem.

Rolie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BC1221 44]

I did this on one of mine recently. Thought I could finesse it. Ended up snapping the stem.
Rolie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good thing eta stems are fairly cheap. When I did it, some of gears on the driving wheel snapped. Had to disassemble the entire thing to make sure all of the little teeth came out of the movement. Those driving wheel teeth snap very easily and hand winding puts a lot of pressure on them. I learned that a while ago after breaking a few driving wheels. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GingerApple 7,272]

3 minutes ago, BC1221 said:

When I did it, some of gears on the driving wheel snapped.

Yeah, that also happened

Rolie!!!!!!!!!!!

[splke 4,372]

3 hours ago, Rokerite said:

You are BANNED from tinkering 

Yep I know 

[GenTLe 1,490]

2 hours ago, BC1221 said:

Good thing eta stems are fairly cheap. When I did it, some of gears on the driving wheel snapped. Had to disassemble the entire thing to make sure all of the little teeth came out of the movement. Those driving wheel teeth snap very easily and hand winding puts a lot of pressure on them. I learned that a while ago after breaking a few driving wheels. Lol.
 

If it's of some consolation, I did the same on a 7750 (full chrono one), not the easiest one to fuck up. Now working well after some work, luckily.

[kyotoman 0]

So, is the lesson to be learned here is to keep all A2824 and like kind on an automatic winder when the watch is out of daily wear rotation? I have just acquired my first two reps in the last month and am reading all these fright tales in the forums about broken stems, etc, etc. Before moving into reps, I have collected a bunch of Pagani, Parnis, etc. and found them all robust and relatively reliable. Are these Chinese ETA and Rolex clones that much more delicate and fragile?

[GingerApple 7,272]

10 minutes ago, kyotoman said:

So, is the lesson to be learned here is to keep all A2824 and like kind on an automatic winder when the watch is out of daily wear rotation? I have just acquired my first two reps in the last month and am reading all these fright tales in the forums about broken stems, etc, etc. Before moving into reps, I have collected a bunch of Pagani, Parnis, etc. and found them all robust and relatively reliable. Are these Chinese ETA and Rolex clones that much more delicate and fragile?

Not at all. Wear them like a normal watch. 90%+ are totally fine, some might need a bit of watchsmith intervention at some point.

[Simonix 8,660]

Is it a similar procedure on the 7750?

[kyotoman 0]

Thanks for that reply, GingerFerret. That makes me feel better about these timepieces. 
Back to my original question, though... do you collectors keep favorite watches on automatic winders?  Currently I rotate about 10-12 watches. Obviously, buying that many winders is both a space and money issue. I guess the base question that I am after is: Is there a negative to letting watches run out their power reserve in the watchbox and then manually rewinding them once they are back in rotation? Or could I keep 1-2 winders ready, pull out a  watch for tomorrow and stick in the winder rather than manually wind? Is winding harder on the movement than adjusting time and date?

15 hours ago, TheGingerFerret said:

Not at all. Wear them like a normal watch. 90%+ are totally fine, some might need a bit of watchsmith intervention at some point.

 

 

[GingerApple 7,272]

There are millions of articles, here and on Gen forums, about whether it's good or bad to keep watches on a winder. I don't think there's definitive proof either way so have a read, then form your own opinion. I've never used them because I swap my watches all the time.

[Flinnt 2,009]

After reading a multitude of opinions on to use or not to use a watch winder I concluded no one has a clue. And to find out all you need to do is choose a thousand watches with different movements, buy thousands of each of these watches, buy a million winders and then put half on winders and half not, get a few hundred thousand people to wear these watches occasionally and wait a lifetime or two, whilst meticulously documenting it all and then you’ll know. 
Somehow I don’t think there’s a Nobel Peace prize in physics coming your way for doing it either. 
 

@kyotoman Man I miss Kyoto. My wife and I befriended a restaurant owner and chef there last year and promised him we’d be back in 12 months to eat his exquisite food and drink his whisky and laugh with him again. A promise well and truly broken. 
We only spoke a bit of Japanese and he only spoke a bit of English and we got on like a house on fire. I love that city and I love him and his food.