My story of an ultimate 116520 Noob Daytona Franken build review / Rolex

[mega12 1]

My story of an ultimate 116520 Noob Daytona Franken build review / Rolex

 

Finally, this is the build I was ever waiting for: my own 116520 Daytona Franken.

Basically, 2011 a Daytona was the reason why I started becoming a watch enthusiast and more or less addicted to this hobby. While I tried several times to source a gen one for a reasonable price, I failed.

After 8 years I realized that it seems not to work and copied my dream partially with building this franken. However, I’m still seeking for a gen one.

 

The reason why I did not build a Franken before was as simple as that: there was not a single watch out there, that could have been a proper base.

Although, THE Daytona is THE most copied watch on this planet and there is a dozens more reps than gens around the globe, no one managed so far to make an exact copy. One of the major flaws was always the movement. A working chrono movement which fits into the heights of 12.3mm was not possible. Ok, some old and cheap reps which even had the wrong second hand running managed the heights ... Just a joke, but I‘m talking about the better quality ones with real working chronos. And there was not a single one that had both: Either they had working Chronos or they had only rough correct height (like 12.8mm-13mm). The reason is simple again: the main chrono movement which is used in rep business is the ETA 7750 / or Asian copies. Construction wise, it’s not slim enough to fit into 12.3mm cases. And all those modified 7750 copies or self-created movements which lost the chrono function to make it slimmer (like ARF) have still not the exact heights.... Thus, you had the choice between nearly correct heights or working chronos. Apart from that, each manufacturer has its own flaws, like wrong dials, wrong case shape, wrong pushers and so on. Until then I did not understand, how people got cheated by a faked Daytona and even some watch smiths were not able to spot it... because I read several cases here in EU, where people got cheated and it was that easy to tell whether it was a fake or not... But this game has changed with the latest Noob Daytona. IMO now you can be easily cheated by a rep „Franken“.

It was back in 2018 when Noob released an exact copy of the insane 4130 chrono movement. The perfect base for a Franken was born and my to go with. While hading several projects in parallel, it took me a while to catch one. In addition, I was still speculating on a v2 version which might have solved some starting issues.

Anyway, there is no 116520 v2 so far (only ceramic 116500 v2) and I catched a nice base from a well known RWI member@shotgun. He did already a case mod to lower the rehaut, slim the bezel and corrected the heights to 12.3mm where I’m really thankful for. However, he did also shape the lugs and one side remained slimmer than the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, this can happen but it can not stay like this for my ultimate Franken. Therefore I brought the watch to my local watch smith, who does usually only services on gens. After convincing him he agreed to reshape the case again for 300€ as he was not familiar with reps, but he knows gens.

 

 

 

 

 

At the beginning he was very impressed by the 4130 copy as he had never seen one of those before. If I remember correctly, he said that he would only be able to tell the difference to gen movement by the balance spring. He said it’s fixed by a screw while the gen is jewel based (if I’m correct). Nonetheless, the amplitude etc. was great (over 300) and he left it with +11 seconds per day because due to the balance spring which is fixed by a screw, there can be some changes by hot and cold temperatures. He could have reduced it a bit but he said, 11 seconds is the max and by changing conditions it will mostly be „better“.

 

However, after dismantling the watch he complained about the quality of the hands (the material on which they are mounted), plus the chrono pushers. I remember he said something like it’s a very cheap rep. Haha, no man, one of the most expensive at the moment, but obviously he just compared it to his experience with gens. More about the balance spring, hands and pushers later.

 

So far so good.

My mission was as following:

- Reshape case (as already done by shotgun and again as described above)

- Replace crystal by gen one (reps have incorrect gasket heights - you could also replace gasket only as they have no cyclops and Noob one is quiet ok. I had two crystals at home, one with LEC but little mark, one w/o but nice condition...decision follows)

- Replace white dial by gen white one (white reps can’t get the color like gens and I dreamed of the white version)

- Replace bezel by gen one (decision follows)

- Replace Noob Bracelet by ARF (not possible, „why“ follows, only clasp possible)

- Replace tube and crown by gen

- Think about gen pushers

- Replace hands (minute, hour) by gen

 

As you know, for a base I purchased this watch from@shotgun

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/replica-watch-sales/7821612-rolex-daytona-noob-116520-v2-904-l-case-rework-and-other-mod

 

Before purchasing this, I already acquired most of the listed gen parts within the last 1.5 years.

 

Therefore, I wanted to understand if they were period correct and came to the following conclusion: No, but who cares - lol.

 

Some period details:

The new flip lock clasp (which is used by ARF and Noob) was launched in 2009.

There is M series models (2008) which are using both, old (78490) and newer clasp (78590).

Also newer V serials from 2009 have been seen with the older clasp. However, random serials have new style clasp.

 

Chromalight (blue glow) was introduced in 2009 with random serial numbers.

V serials from 2009 still had SuperLuminova (green).

By the way, there is also APH dials with CL. APH means, that the APH from the lettering CHRONOGR APH has a little spacing in between.

 

Double tick dials:

Double tick means, that the dial has two long markers next to „Swiss Made“ around positions 25 to 30 and 30 to 35.

While most of the black dials have this, there will be rather rarely white ones you find on chrono or wherever. Most of them have only one „long“ marker in between of they are not new Chromalight versions.

Newer models with CL have double tick. But old models with SL have mainly single tick. Only some older 2003 models etc have SL and double tick - like my dial. So they look more like urgent one. And they are rare and expensive.

 

 

In addition, last batch of Daytona V serials can have SL and CL lume plus newer and older clasp. Only difference: V serial has no random serial number - as the name says its serials start with „V“.

Random serials have always blue CL lume, but c‘mon... who knows all of this

 

IMHO it’s crucial to have fat hands because those will be an instant tell for older or newer models.

All the P, K and most Y 116520's had skinny hands (similar to what you see on the 16520's). Later versions had fat hands.

 

If someone sees my watch glowing, he won’t be able to read serial number or identify hands and vice versa.

However, the dial in combination with SL remains a tell.

Once I‘m in the mood, I could replace the clasp by an old one and remove rehaut and it would be perfect and period correct. But I simply don’t like it and love rehaut (although Noob Daytona rehaut is not very good - thin, no double line engraving...but ok)

 

So my opinion about the following parts:

 

Dial:

The white Noob dial is not very good. It has wrong Daytona red printing, the white is not nice and the chrono sub dial color is not really gen like. Maybe everything is close but overall it looks not as nice as a gen does even if you don’t have a gen to compare.

 

If you are undecided about the dial, there is a wonderful dial guide from a great member @Spatiumtemporis on RWI.

I think it’s the most detailed and best Daytona dial guide I have ever seen:

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/7442079-rolex-daytona-116520-ss-dial-guide-period-variation-study

 

As mentioned, I catched a white double tick dial with green SuperLuminova, most likely from 2003.

 

Black rep dials (even 116500 v2.2) are way better and some say you can keep them easily.

 

 

 

 

 

 

nearest petrol station around me

 

Case:

Overall an ARF case seems to have nicer finish and is closer to gen shape. Nonetheless, ARF uses modified 7750 movements and you won’t be able to put a Noob 4130 movement into it without some big mods (reshape, re-allocated pushers etc).

There is a few members having done this - highly respected - but I think majority here will rather focus on the Noob case as it is and try to get it re-shaped once this is important to them - like I did twice.

Frankly speaking, if you ask me whether a reshape is necessary or not, I can’t answer. The “non reshaped” case I had for comparisons, was quite ok as well. However, I have the feeling that all of them have little uneven lug thicknesses. That’s why I would always prefer a reshape to correct this. If you ask on the forum some say, it’s good as it is, some say it’s completely wrong. I guess, even gen owners won’t always recognize a difference - but they will have correct lug thicknesses like it happened in my case, there is always a risk to shape or polish a bit too much and one lug is thicker or thinner. That’s why I needed a second reshape to correct. But the good thing is, this happens also on gens.

 

As usual, go with your heart and take your own decision. If you are not bothered by the shape or try intensively to spot the differences, leave it as it is. I have the feeling, that a reshaped case feels more gen like but this is just my feeling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

free photo hosting

 

Bracelet:

Based on the different cases of ARF and Noob, an ARF bracelet won’t fit on Noob case. Basically it will fit but there remains a little gap between the SELs which you probably don’t like. I tested it, it’s not that big, but it’s there. Therefore, I changes the clasp only including all extension links that were needed to fit my wrist. Noob bracelet is 904l as well and nicely done. But ARF is smoother. Noob clasp is crap. So go and get an ARF clasp.

By the way, after being so close to finalize my Daytona Franken the impossible happened: One link next to the SEL felt off. Really ugly. I glued and fixed it again but didn’t trust this bracelet anymore. So ordered a new one. Never happened on an ARF bracelet to me - but also never happened on any other Noob bracelet to me. Maybe just bad luck. And because the ARF clasp which I had was also not perfect, I ordered a new ARF bracelet as well. Both received a WD40 bath to feel smoother. Looks ugly but gives a nice result.

 

jpeg upload

 

Crystal

As already mentioned, I sourced two gen crystals before. One with LEC but used condition, one without but pretty good condition. In addition, I got a gen gasket from my friend@banana split. However, either I’m too dumb or did something wrong, but I faced the same issue as@sputim. Both of us were not able to mount the crystal with gen gasket. It’s way too strong. A little bit of sanding helps, but w/o it’s really hard... At the end, I decided to keep the rep crystal and gasket. Both was pretty good and water proof tested as well. Maybe I will change it another day.

 

Bezel@shotgun did also lower the noob bezel. Honestly speaking, Having both rep and gen I prefer the rep one. It’s crazy but it looks way more harmonic and bling bling on the watch than the gen. Maybe because the gen one is used and not that polished anymore. But for the moment I will wear the rep one. This is pretty nice and gen like once it has been lowered. No need to replace IMO. Completely agains my own rule to prefer gen but used instead of rep but new. Here wins the rep.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pushers:

Usually I would never mention this part or consider changing pushers. First, they look great to me as they are, second gens have ridiculous prices (like 800€ for a pair).

Unfortunately, my watch smith destroyed one pusher while dismantling the watch for polishing. Hey said, they have very poor quality-whatever this means on a stainless steel case

Nonetheless, I had to find a solution and luckily I acquired a gen pair of tubes (the inner side of the pushers) for a reasonable price (still expensive). In parallel, I purchases a set of Aftermarket pushers from WSO on eBay and another Aftermarket pair from an unknown Chinese member „nextime-1“. Both looked quite good to me as they arrived and seemed to use same construction as gen does. Anyway, it turned out that you can’t install the WSO pushers on the gen inner tube because WSO crowns are too small in terms of diameter. In addition, gen pushers have a double line engraved top while WSO doesn’t have even a single line here. The eBay one uses at least a single line engraving - which is a bit closer to gen. And the crown does also fit on the gen tube (inner side) which is quiet good.

However, the crown is too long and not flat on the top like gen or Noob. This bothered me a bit and I catched a Noob pair again and a gen set of P402 Pushers.

P402 is used in 5 digit Daytonas (like 16520). 6 digit Daytonas use P502 Pusher, but I’ve been told that they look identical and can be mounted as well. Two independent gen watch smiths ensured me, they are similar. And one of them was an authorized Rolex Service Partner. But all of a sudden, they are not similar. Look at the pictures in comparison to the Noob pusher which is quite close to gen. The double line engraving is different on older and newer pusher.

Prices on Chrono are incredible for both. Between 700€ and 1.500€. Seems that old ones are even more expensive than the P502...

 

Of course I wanted to go with the gen Pusher instead of Noob ones, but I didn’t because they are wrong for this model and Noob is closer to gen. By the way, what I didn’t knew before: Although Noob pushers look like gen, they are not really compatible with gen “inner part / tubes”. I was able to mount them on gen tubes but the pushers cannot be locked in closed crown position anymore. You can always screw them further without any stop. So either you leave the noob as they are or take a complete set of gens (what is not necessary IMO).

The main crown is also not needed to be replaced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Service

While changing the Pushers again, I managed to cause a keyless function on the movement. Well done me idiot... I usually remove the stem while the movement is running. Nonetheless, the watch smith who polished my Daytona recommended to remove stems while being in hack/hour setting position. This turned out to be a bad idea. There is more tension and force on the construction and you really really have to do it carefully. Otherwise, it causes a keyless. In addition the movement did not had enough oil on the right spots so I was lost and caused this keyless. I did directly sent it to a professional replica watch smith in EU, who released a video recently, where he was replacing the replica balance spring by a gen one on the 4130. He recommended me, that the movement needs a full service as it was missing lots of oils and came in dirty condition. Again he confirmed the thoughts of my first watch smith: the movement is incredible good. Only balance spring is a tell (because it’s not jewel based). But this balance spring, together with the balance bridge, can be replaced by a gen one. If you do this, he said, no one will be able to tell that this is a rep movement. Costs will be roughly 700€-1.000€. I decided agains as I won’t open my watch regularly and he did a full service to it. Now it’s running with 8 seconds per day which is quite ok for me. It’s completely up to the balance to get it closer to gen. He said, that the quality of rep balances differs a lot. Some are better, some are worse. Seems there is no real QC for this in China.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hands

While removing the hands for servicing, he told me, that hands are an easy tell as well. First, they are not as precisely made as gens, second once you removed them, there is some lining (or however you call it) inside the center of the hands, which gets little worn/removed while changing. I already acquired a gen hour and minute hand but after his recommendation, I purchased a gen stop-second and 3 chrono hands as well. All of them look great on it.

 

So basically that’s it.

To keep a long story short:

 

This Noob Franken drived me crazy because it has been several times with different watch smiths and I did also do my best to it.

First got a slightly uneven shaped watch. Then, watch smith destroyed a Pusher. Ordered dozens of pusher. Mounted gen „inner parts / tubes“ for the pushers together with different variations of Aftermarket Crowns - all of them were wrong or not able to lock. Came back to Noob. Beside of that, the bracelet came off because one fixed link felt off. Never saw this before... Finally caused a keyless... And I had an uneven mounted sub second hand because of poor quality before replacing by gen... overall I spent a huge amount of money on unnecessary parts and time (around 1.5 years - maybe I could have been on waiting list for a gen in the meantime, lol of course not) and so on and so fort... nonetheless the result is: Amazing! I love it.

 

If you like Daytonas, go and get this Noob!

 

After all these learnings I recommend the final following mods:

 

Bezel: slim/sand the Noob bezel, no need for a gen one

Case: give it a reshape

Movement: service it or simply purchase a new watch once it’s destroyed, price for a service is similar. Haha.

Dial: change definitely to gen

Hands: change definitely to gen

Crystal: keep Noob one

Gasket: try gen or keep Noob

Crown: keep noob

Pusher: keep Noob

Bracelet: change clasp to ARF

 

That’s it. Not more is needed to be a spot on watch - just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks to everyone who was supporting me in this project.

Now enjoy some final pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good night!

 

[Glaude 1,615]

There's some dedication in this build, that's for sure ! 

Very nice post about it, I'm sure a lot of people will find those info useful if they want to attempt a similar build !

[mega12 1]

True
Thanks man

[Petesy1 1]

Wow. Amazing post. Is there any case differences between the noob v2 & v3?

[mega12 1]

Wow. Amazing post. Is there any case differences between the noob v2 & v3?

Thanks
As far as I know, cases are the same for both versions

[Sgt_Njoy 56]

So I just found out noob has a2824 version and dial font and spacing is more accurate than 4130 version... I wonder why they can't have this white dial on or sell separately :(  

[Petesy1 1]

I have a noob v3 on order and planning a superfranken project but not as super as yours lol. My watch maker will service & fit crystal/gasket. I have dial hands and bezel on order. Id really like to add a ARF bracelet but some people say its difficult and some say its more than do able. How does your noob bracelet compare to gen? I also want the case reshaping. Personal preference thing although to the eye i dont see any difference

[Petesy1 1]

Did you get your height slimmed from 12.5mm to 12.3mm or have i read that wrong?

[DavidThomson 0]

PM :-)

[Phil3007 1]

Wow, amazing post. Very detailed and very good quality of content and pictures, Thank you for your efforts and sharing.