OLDBLOKE74 6,802 Posted May 17, 2020 The gray market seems to have good deals even on “hot”watches just now ; maybe the chaos of the virus and the closure of AD’s shops is forcing suppliers to offload stock through different channels. Even eBay has some good “unworn” watches these days. It has always been possible to get at least 20% off the window price of Breitling, Tag, Omega etc as long as you did not want the latest hot model, but Chrono24 and others seem to be advertising more new watches ..... I am currently looking at a new Cartier ( ex-display model- yeah right ) on Ebay that I know will go for 50-60% of AD window price. Full 5 year warranties are not normally able to be activated but it shows where the luxury watch market Is just now. ‘Tonas and Hulks will always be in demand and attract a premium, but other brands and models are available at big discounts - interesting to see where this will go from here, maybe they will cut back on production to protect the brand ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Intresting 21,689 Posted May 17, 2020 Dunno about watches, but it seems that some lux brands are bucking the trend.https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/fashion-beauty/article/3084527/first-chanel-now-louis-vuitton-will-prices-more-luxury 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OLDBLOKE74 6,802 Posted May 17, 2020 https://www.luxuriouswatchreview.com/best-gray-market-watch-dealers/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realism 72 Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Intresting said: Dunno about watches, but it seems that some lux brands are bucking the trend.https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/fashion-beauty/article/3084527/first-chanel-now-louis-vuitton-will-prices-more-luxury After this event in April lol... An Hermès Boutique in China Made $2.7 Million in One Day After It Reopened https://www.google.com/amp/s/robbreport.com/style/accessories/a-newly-reopened-chinese-hermes-store-earned-2-7-million-in-a-day-2912999/amp/ I do think any strength is only applicable to the "in demand" brands though. The secondary brands will still struggle for sales .... 3 minutes ago, OLDBLOKE74 said: https://www.luxuriouswatchreview.com/best-gray-market-watch-dealers/ Lol... The worst dealer you could purchase from. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=703482 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RepGuy 108 Posted May 17, 2020 Artificial scarcity won't change for the major offenders like Rolex, so don't expect to see any significant price drops from gray market sellers. I've found that many of the gray market flippers (not the bigger guys) have comparable, if not better, pricing than you get with these larger businesses. You can find them a lot of times on the WatchUSeek sales forum, under the section called "Dealers and Manufacturers". They are essentially one or two person operations, but I'm seeing a lot of them selling and able to get the same stuff the bug guys can get gray market wise. They also usually have some sort of return policy, and can even get you the original warranty in some cases. My guess is these are the guys going into their local AD and buying those "display case" pieces at a heavy discount to flip. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realism 72 Posted May 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, RepGuy said: My guess is these are the guys going into their local AD and buying those "display case" pieces at a heavy discount to flip. Those slow-movers, like the pearlmasters, gold DJs, ladies pieces, are getting a small discount + maybe 3-4 GMTs (at slightly higher than RRP) as a package deal... The receipt submitted along with the warranty work would state RRP, with the remainder of the premium paid via a backhand "cash"... In a more than a couple of countries, the ADs openly chatted with me about doing a 2 for 1 deal for maybe a LN/LV, whereas you spend some cash on a non-Rolex branded product, ex Breitling, Ulysse Nardin with 10-20% disc, and get a LN/LV on the same day depending on which slow-movers model you chose... There is a lot of myth about Rolex "condoning" this practice, but in reality, why would Rolex care? Their inventory turnover and rate of returns have never been higher than the past 2 or so years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RepGuy 108 Posted May 17, 2020 32 minutes ago, Realism said: In a more than a couple of countries, the ADs openly chatted with me about doing a 2 for 1 deal for maybe a LN/LV, whereas you spend some cash on a non-Rolex branded product, ex Breitling, Ulysse Nardin with 10-20% disc, and get a LN/LV on the same day depending on which slow-movers model you chose... I watched a video on this a few days ago actually. A Rolex AD told some guy he had to buy an IWC or something in order to be "approved" to buy a Hulk like he originally wanted. The practice is extremely unprofessional, but the video goes on to say that this customer not only did the original deal, but went back two more times and was convinced to buy something else in order to be approved to buy the watches he really wanted. It shows that these practices will exist as long as customers are stupid enough to bend over. For me, gray market is ideal in most cases. I don't care about paying MSRP just to have some salesman in a suit stroke my ego and tell me what a big boy I am. I could always ask @TheGingerFerret to do so for considerably less. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GingerApple 7,285 Posted May 17, 2020 My goodness, you are one handsome guy Repguy. Do you model? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BravoDelta 22,444 Posted May 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, RepGuy said: I watched a video on this a few days ago actually. A Rolex AD told some guy he had to buy an IWC or something in order to be "approved" to buy a Hulk like he originally wanted. I saw that too. I think it's this one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RepGuy 108 Posted May 17, 2020 59 minutes ago, TheGingerFerret said: My goodness, you are one handsome guy Repguy. Do you model? Thanks Ging. Because of your compliment, I would now like to pay 40%-60% more than I would on the gray market. Please accept my money as you go in dry. 55 minutes ago, BravoDelta said: I saw that too. I think it's this one... I actually saw a different one that was only like 15 minutes long, but I think it was the same guy on the left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piccolo 673 Posted May 17, 2020 Had a friend go into an AD and ask for a couple of Daytona’s... was told that whatever he spent on other brands would be matched in Rolex... He bought a VC tourbillon and they sold him a ceramic Tona, YG Tona, RG Tona, and a Pepsi. Same day no wait. Money talks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BravoDelta 22,444 Posted May 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Piccolo said: Had a friend go into an AD and ask for a couple of Daytona’s... was told that whatever he spent on other brands would be matched in Rolex... He bought a VC tourbillon and they sold him a ceramic Tona, YG Tona, RG Tona, and a Pepsi. Same day no wait. Money talks. Thats a helluva lot of money...If ya got that kind of cash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RepGuy 108 Posted May 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, Piccolo said: Had a friend go into an AD and ask for a couple of Daytona’s... was told that whatever he spent on other brands would be matched in Rolex... He bought a VC tourbillon and they sold him a ceramic Tona, YG Tona, RG Tona, and a Pepsi. Same day no wait. Money talks. Thats impressive, but doesn't help the majority of people. The artificial scarcity is one thing, but essentially holding the fast moving watches hostage to everyone but the most wealthy customers is different. Im not a huge fan of the AD's to begin with, due to the inflated prices, but this would put me off of a brand almost indefinitely. I get Rolex isn't necessarily telling their dealers to do this, but they sure are allowing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piccolo 673 Posted May 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, BravoDelta said: Thats a helluva lot of money...If ya got that kind of cash. 20 minutes ago, RepGuy said: Thats impressive, but doesn't help the majority of people. The artificial scarcity is one thing, but essentially holding the fast moving watches hostage to everyone but the most wealthy customers is different. Im not a huge fan of the AD's to begin with, due to the inflated prices, but this would put me off of a brand almost indefinitely. I get Rolex isn't necessarily telling their dealers to do this, but they sure are allowing it. Yep it’s rubbish for normal people. But It’s business, if you have sales targets to hit and turnover you have to make then it just makes sense. Hermes/LV etc are exactly the same with their more expensive/wanted bags. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del 4,452 Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Piccolo said: Had a friend go into an AD and ask for a couple of Daytona’s... was told that whatever he spent on other brands would be matched in Rolex... He bought a VC tourbillon and they sold him a ceramic Tona, YG Tona, RG Tona, and a Pepsi. Same day no wait. Money talks. Christ! If I had that kind of money I'd have told them to fuck off, then I'd go and buy the Daytonas elsewhere. And then I'd go back to see them with my new watches, Pretty Woman style! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RepGuy 108 Posted May 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Del said: Christ! If I had that kind of money I'd have told them to fuck off, then I'd go and buy the Daytonas elsewhere. And then I'd go back to see them with my new watches, Pretty Woman style! Don't ever let anyone tell you that you aren't a pretty woman. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del 4,452 Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, RepGuy said: Don't ever let anyone tell you that you aren't a pretty woman. Thanks honey! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realism 72 Posted May 18, 2020 9 hours ago, BravoDelta said: I saw that too. I think it's this one... Nah, that one is just a recorded audio of an Indian AD. Imho, as "dirty" as you feel it is, recording a conversation without prior consent is illegal, that shit should not be even shared online. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GingerApple 7,285 Posted May 18, 2020 7 hours ago, Realism said: recording a conversation without prior consent is illegal, I think that very much depends on where you are. In the UK it seems it is definitely not illegal. Sharing the recording could be illegal - but it is a defence if it is in the public interest. I think exposing shady business practice is an excellent example of being in the public interest, so I think such behaviour is fine in the UK. In fact, journalists rely on this all the time when they do undercover exposés. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realism 72 Posted May 18, 2020 34 minutes ago, TheGingerFerret said: I think that very much depends on where you are. In the UK it seems it is definitely not illegal. Sharing the recording could be illegal - but it is a defence if it is in the public interest. I think exposing shady business practice is an excellent example of being in the public interest, so I think such behaviour is fine in the UK. In fact, journalists rely on this all the time when they do undercover exposés. What is he exposing exactly? The fact that ADs care about bottom line profits? It's not like that David Khalil individual is a saint as well... He is profiteering from this onset of higher demand from the hot watches too isn't he? He could say that he is no longer purchasing an unworn piece (as per the video), but rather than doing us a service, he is doing it for his business... Cut out the nonsense about doing us, enthusiasts a service... Bundling products is one of the oldest tool in marketing... I do not get what is so shady about that. It had been made clear many times, by larger gray dealers like Roman Sharf (openly), that he pays higher than retail for sports model... And that there is no such thing as a waitlist... My experiences with ADs confirm that fact as well... Unless you are a huge somebody, why would an AD be interested to do you any favours? It works like that in any other biz too... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GingerApple 7,285 Posted May 18, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 11:13, Realism said: What is he exposing exactly? The fact that ADs care about bottom line profits? It's not like that David Khalil individual is a saint as well... He is profiteering from this onset of higher demand from the hot watches too isn't he? He could say that he is no longer purchasing an unworn piece (as per the video), but rather than doing us a service, he is doing it for his business... Cut out the nonsense about doing us, enthusiasts a service... Bundling products is one of the oldest tool in marketing... I do not get what is so shady about that. It had been made clear many times, by larger gray dealers like Roman Sharf (openly), that he pays higher than retail for sports model... And that there is no such thing as a waitlist... My experiences with ADs confirm that fact as well... Unless you are a huge somebody, why would an AD be interested to do you any favours? It works like that in any other biz too... Sorry, I've not watched the video (nor do I intend to). I'd assumed it was some sort of exposé from the context of the thread. I was just making the point that recording people without permission is not illegal in some jurisdictions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realism 72 Posted May 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, TheGingerFerret said: Sorry, I've not watched the video (nor do I intend to). I'd assumed it was done sort of exposé from the context of the thread. I was just making the point that recording people without permission is not illegal in some jurisdictions. What's your point? It is also illegal in other jurisdictions. Try doing that in the States and we shall see what becomes of that individual? Again, in your contextual interest, since the AD is in India... Here is what applied... In view of the above discussion, it can be said that there is no legal impediment in recording the telephonic conversation with prior written consent of all the parties to the telephonic conversation and the same is not in violation of right to privacy enshrined under Article 21 of the Constitution and shall also be outside the ambit of interception. However, the recorded conversations can only be used for the purposes for which the consent has been obtained." https://www.mondaq.com/india/privacy-protection/707096/phone-tapping-and-recording-of-telephonic-conversations-right-to-privacy-and-indian-law Basically, if the AD is aware of David Khalil's action of such, he is liable for his actions, both per the UK and Indian laws... I got zero interest in discussing about laws, since i'm not a lawyer, but you piqued my interest in such... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GingerApple 7,285 Posted May 18, 2020 37 minutes ago, Realism said: What's your point? 1 hour ago, TheGingerFerret said: I was just making the point that recording people without permission is not illegal in some jurisdictions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Realism 72 Posted May 18, 2020 Just now, TheGingerFerret said: I just busted that. Maybe reading isn't your forte? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GingerApple 7,285 Posted May 18, 2020 So you're maintaing it's illegal to record conversations in, for example, the UK? If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
