Royal Oak Automatic

[honeybear 0]

I've had litteraly dozens of reps in hands that were supposed to come with gen ETA movements, and I can tell you that good dealers know which factories sell brand new ETA and which ones sell refurbished or clones.

 

So mate, believe whatever you want to believe.

 

So you have dozens of replicas which supposedly have gen ETA movements, have you personally verified that this is indeed the case, and therefore have enough statistical data to establish the reliability of certain dealers? And would you concur with wat44's assessment that only Mary and Robert are to be trusted in this regard?

 

By the way, which dealer is Robert?

[Luthier 1]

Honeybear, you're really a new guy here, don't know much about dealers, factories, and pretty much anything.

So, let me clarify this matter for you:

1. Mary do not buy watches from wholesale market, such a market just doesn't exist, she go to the factory directly, and I've been there many times, and I personally saw tons of UNOPENED YET boxes from Switzerland with dozens of thousands of ETAs. So, they have no problems to use brand new ETAs even for new models.

2. You can buy brand new ETAs on watch market, 2924, 2836, 2892, saw it by my own eyes, and took a pictures.

3. Mary and Robert are not a dropshippers (if you know, what it mean), and both have professional watchsmiths in their offices, so, only these 2 dealers can be trusted with no doubts. I've been in Mary's office many times, watched him working on every watch, that Mary ship to the customers.

4. You even don't know, who Roberts is... but you know everything about how it is in China...

 

[Member X 91]

No pun intended but judging from those pics neither version looks any special.

 

A similar style watch like the new PP Nautilus with the Selitta movement will be a much better rep in terms of finish and built quality

What is happening with MBK?

 

Reg / Balders said that the guy running it has retired (has died??) so only his son is left now, but I'm not sure if they're still selling? And, if they are, what's available?

[honeybear 0]

Honeybear, you're really a new guy here, don't know much about dealers, factories, and pretty much anything.

So, let me clarify this matter for you:

1. Mary do not buy watches from wholesale market, such a market just doesn't exist, she go to the factory directly, and I've been there many times, and I personally saw tons of UNOPENED YET boxes from Switzerland with dozens of thousands of ETAs. So, they have no problems to use brand new ETAs even for new models.

2. You can buy brand new ETAs on watch market, 2924, 2836, 2892, saw it by my own eyes, and took a pictures.

3. Mary and Robert are not a dropshippers (if you know, what it mean), and both have professional watchsmiths in their offices, so, only these 2 dealers can be trusted with no doubts. I've been in Mary's office many times, watched him working on every watch, that Mary ship to the customers.

4. You even don't know, who Roberts is... but you know everything about how it is in China...

 

There's no need to be condescending. It's true that I'm new to RWG, but I've hung out at the other 3 replica forums for a bit. Yes, I do know what a drop shipper is, and none of the dealers I've done business with were drop shippers, but that doesn't imply I necessarily trust everything they say.

 

Having a watchsmith on staff, and having witnessed this in person most definitely helps, and explains your implicit faith in Mary and Robert. Of course this is not immediately obvious from even a review of the feedback for Mary on the forum.

 

As your post amply suggests, Mary runs her business differently from most other replica dealers, so forgive me if I was a bit skeptical of the unexplained enthusiasm for her as a dealer.

[honeybear 0]

What is happening with MBK?

 

Reg / Balders said that the guy running it has retired (has died??) so only his son is left now, but I'm not sure if they're still selling? And, if they are, what's available?

 

Reg said the old man died. Not sure what the impact will be on the MBK replicas.

[honeybear 0]

eg josh has $350 version

and $300 version

 

For future reference, the difference in price is due to the fact that one is the Jumbo, and the other is the regular Royal Oak.

Edited July 7, 2011 by honeybear

[Ska 11]

In support of Luth, and also to shed a bit of light on the ETA supply/demand situation here are a few facts which should help.

 

1. ETA have only stopped PRODUCTION of base movements for supply outside of the Swatch Group.

2. They still legally have to fulfill their 2011 orders for all external buyers. These would have been placed in 2010 or even late 2009. This means that ETA will still be shipping to external customers (including the Chinese parts wholesalers) for at least the next 5 months.

3. ETA produce over 100,000 movements per year just for their base Calibres.

4. ETA movements are still readily available at the normal price in the UK (eg. from cousins) and in the US, Europe Canada to my knowledge.

5. The Chinese have SHITLOADS of ETA, Seagull and Sellita movements. Enough for years.

 

6. Although Mary herself doesn't know a great deal about the mechanics of watches. Her watchmaker is THE SHIT. As is Roberts.

[honeybear 0]

In support of Luth, and also to shed a bit of light on the ETA supply/demand situation here are a few facts which should help.

 

1. ETA have only stopped PRODUCTION of base movements for supply outside of the Swatch Group.

2. They still legally have to fulfill their 2011 orders for all external buyers. These would have been placed in 2010 or even late 2009. This means that ETA will still be shipping to external customers (including the Chinese parts wholesalers) for at least the next 5 months.

3. ETA produce over 100,000 movements per year just for their base Calibres.

4. ETA movements are still readily available at the normal price in the UK (eg. from cousins) and in the US, Europe Canada to my knowledge.

5. The Chinese have SHITLOADS of ETA, Seagull and Sellita movements. Enough for years.

 

6. Although Mary herself doesn't know a great deal about the mechanics of watches. Her watchmaker is THE SHIT. As is Roberts.

 

I appreciate the information, thank you. See, it is possible to educate the newbies without virtual eyerolls.

[mbjoer 0]

I appreciate the information, thank you. See, it is possible to educate the newbies without virtual eyerolls.

 

Yes.

 

You have not expertienced a tone which is pretty common here. This forum is more like an old boys insider chat room than the other fora.

Personally I find it a big shame, as I loose respect for the arrogant poster even when he has something useful to say.

 

But Mary is an exceptional dealer.

[Wiz 0]

I appreciate the information, thank you. See, it is possible to educate the newbies without virtual eyerolls.

 

Yes.

 

You have not expertienced a tone which is pretty common here. This forum is more like an old boys insider chat room than the other fora.

Personally I find it a big shame, as I loose respect for the arrogant poster even when he has something useful to say.

 

But Mary is an exceptional dealer.

 

On this thread we respectfully tried to share some infos, but when a guy who obviously don't know much comes tell you "nah, I think you're saying shit", please tell me, who is being arrogant...?

[wat44 0]

I agree Wiz - I think Honeybear at the very least could have chosen his words better

[honeybear 0]

Look, my responses might have been a bit aggressive, but that was primarily in response to Wat44's comments on the photos of the AP RO Jumbo replicas which he posted from Mary, and his adamant claim that they were the best/newest available on the market.

 

Wat44, I know you have over 2000+ posts, but given that you were asking about which watch had the 21J and 2836 movement, I could only surmise that you would have difficulty distinguishing between a Swiss ETA movement and an asian clone, much less distinguishing between a new and refurbished ETA movement. So by that measure, I did not immediately feel that you were able to independently verify the validity of Mary's claims.

 

As some members on other forums (like RWI) have pointed out to you, even the Swiss version you posted did not seem like the best finished one available, and I suggested something similar on this site. You countered by stating without reservation that any Swiss version besides the one you posted used recycled/refurbished Swiss movements, which naturally leads to the question as to where you got this information from.

 

My responses were based on the common sentiment expressed on the other forums, and while these might just be misconceptions, you do not convince a skeptic simply by assertions alone. I am however swayed by Luthier's photos, and Ska's thoughtful explanations.

Edited July 8, 2011 by honeybear

[wat44 0]

I wasnt asking which pic of the movement was swiss, I was asking which case matched the movement - I still cant tell

[honeybear 0]

I wasnt asking which pic of the movement was swiss, I was asking which case matched the movement - I still cant tell

 

Okay, that's a much more reasonable question. If I had to guess, both of the cases are the same lower quality case. It's a bit difficult to point to something in particular in the watch head, the finish just doesn't look as nice as the latest cartel Royal Oak Jumbo.

 

Perhaps the most obvious issue is the AP on the bracelet clasp. Compare the photos you received from Mary with the following one from PureTimeWatch. The one from Mary is poorly laser engraved, but the PTW version is much more deeply and cleanly engraved.

 

[honeybear 0]

I also noticed that the "Royal Oak" on the display caseback is off centered on Mary's ETA, but better centered on the 21j version. wat44, the photos Mary has sent you of the Royal Oak doesn't look like is has the highest quality case and bracelet available, and as I've said, this has been pointed out to you by other members on the other forums. Look at the one by PTW for comparison:

 

Royal Oak Jumbo Ultimate Edition

 

Perhaps it's because the cartel factories use recycled and refurbished Swiss ETA movements, which is why Mary doesn't choose to do business with them, but in this instance, it seems to have real consequences in terms of the quality of rotor, and the bracelet.

 

I have a suggestion, why don't you ask Mary if she'll source the cartel Royal Oak Jumbo for you, and then have her watchsmith swap out the questionable Swiss ETA movement for one of her factory fresh Swiss ETAs, while keeping the nicely laser engraved rotor from the cartel version, then you'll have the best of both worlds.

 

Although, if it were my money, I would just buy the cartel version with the questionable Swiss ETA, and use it until it self-destructs, then do a movement swap, if you're still fond of the watch.

Edited July 13, 2011 by honeybear

[wat44 0]

dear honeybear

 

Mary can get any watch the cartel can get

 

the difference you dont seem to appreciate is that the cartel site will put photos of anything they like up, whereas Mary is posting the actual photo of the current watch available

 

the movements on many websites are NOT available anymore - they are using old photos

[wat44 0]

I wasnt asking which pic of the movement was swiss, I was asking which case matched the movement - I still cant tell

 

Okay, that's a much more reasonable question. If I had to guess, both of the cases are the same lower quality case. It's a bit difficult to point to something in particular in the watch head, the finish just doesn't look as nice as the latest cartel Royal Oak Jumbo.

 

Perhaps the most obvious issue is the AP on the bracelet clasp. Compare the photos you received from Mary with the following one from PureTimeWatch. The one from Mary is poorly laser engraved, but the PTW version is much more deeply and cleanly engraved.

 

 

Marys two watches are from 2 different factories - she kindly went and got both of them to photogragh

 

if you want to rely on photos from websites of non-trusted dealers, thats great!

[honeybear 0]

wat44, if that's the best Mary can get for you for $400, even with a verified Swiss ETA movement, I would look for a different model instead. I don't think that either of the two watches in the photos you showed are worth $400.

[wat44 0]

thats exactly wat I have chosen to do!

[honeybear 0]

thats exactly wat I have chosen to do!

 

Perfectly sensible thing to do. It's a pity that they're sold out of the high quality case, the AP Royal Oak is a classic watch.

[wat44 0]

its still on the list of wates to buy when I can get the right one - I actually prefer the no seconds version - and I will accept quartz in that case!!!

[mbjoer 0]

its still on the list of wates to buy when I can get the right one - I actually prefer the no seconds version - and I will accept quartz in that case!!!

 

If you can find one, that is.

 

I have looked for some time. It is such an obvious rep, but seems not be available.

[Mary Watch 205]

Some pics of the AP. I don't know if it worth the money. Maybe you know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wat44 0]

thanks very much Mary - Ive never been more confused about all the variations on a watch as with this one!!!

 

When I work it out, Im buying from you

[honeybear 0]

Hi Mary, this one looks very good. Is this the $400 one which wat44 was mentioning? Do you have a closeup of the dial?