My first Submariner project(s)

[Figmo 61]

Figmo here! In case you were wondering, my nickname is an old army acronym which stands for:

Fuck
It
Got
My
Orders

Suffice to say this reflects sentiments with which those who have served in uniform or otherwise worked as a mere cog in a gargantuan bureaucracy could relate.

For the sake of clarity (even though it's likely unnecessary for most) I'll quote Urban Dictionary regarding two terms I'll be using frequently here:

Quote

Newbie: Not to be confused with noob, a newbie is a newcomer to anything. Newbies can spell, but they lack in what's new to them. Noobs and newbies are kinda opposites, in a way. Plus, newbies are usually more respectful than noobs.

Newbie Tip: The single most important means of differentiating oneself from the n00b (I like using 1337 to spell that one word) is through leaving your ego at the door, being open-minded, and treating everyone else with the respect you want in return.

I've not posted much until now owing to my having spent much of my time researching what has become my first serious foray into these pursuits. In order to impart a little about where I've come from and what my level of (un)familiarity happens to be, here are a few tidbits to answer the "Who the heck are you?" question:

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A little about me

- I'm a newbie here however I've been a member of many and was a moderator for a few other (non-rep) forums here and there;

- I'm new to watch modding however I've been collecting watches for around 20 years (my collection includes gen Casio through gen AP and many in between);

- I'm not a "watch smith" nor have I any qualifications related to modding (no machine shop experience), but have made frequent use of case wrenches and watchmaker's screwdrivers, have rudimentary familiarity with drill press, dremel, and other basic power tools, and have carefully restored the brushed finish on cases and bracelets using progressively finer grades of paper;

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 As a newbie my role is to read up on and learn as much as I could from the wealth of information posted both here and on RWG's "sister forums" rather than fall victim to the all too common n00b "alligator" mistake (itty bitty ears, great big mouth):

"Better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - Sir Winston Churchill

By not posting questions the answers to which are readily accessible via this forum's "search" function, a newbie like me avoids disrespecting the longtime members who have not only spent a great deal of time and effort learning what they know, but have also gone to the trouble of posting what they've learned for the benefit of others. Little wonder such folks sometimes get a little snippy when a n00b appears out of nowhere and asks...

n00b: "hi lol whts he bset rep i jus wan da best 1 also i order wtch frm www.scamu4urcash.com bt dey no ansr after i pd dem bitcoyn cn u sue dem 4 me kthxbye"

Newbie Tip: Don't be afraid to demonstrate you're doing your homework, especially when replying to a thread asking questions. "After reading [link to thread] and [link to thread], I'm interested in an XYZ Factory <Make><Model> but am wondering if...?"

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Bearing in mind everyone's different, here's the "unique to me" answer to the following question:

[Q]: So what are you doing here, and what do you hope to accomplish?

[A]: What interests me aside from keeping up-to-date on the latest rep-related news and reviews (which are of interest to a watch collector like me regardless), what interests me most of all is modding. Aside from the obvious, what I'll call "traditional watch collecting" typically revolves around originality and condition.

In an ideal world many a vintage watch collector dreams of landing a minty NOS unicorn piece fresh from someone's safety deposit box, as occasionally seen on Antiques Roadshow, Antiquorum auctions, etc. On the other hand, deliberately aging, fading, scuffing, and adding patina to a timepiece runs contrary to my other collecting instincts, and I find the prospect both fun and challenging. Can I make a budget build look convincing on the wrist with a little investment and a lot of elbow grease? There's only one way to find out!

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Watch shopping 101

Before buying, I followed one of the core golden rules every newbie should observe: TD OR BUST!

A fool and his money are soon parted, and that is one of the big reasons I've not taken the plunge until now, after joining this forum and doing my homework. Websites that promise "AAAAA+++++ precision handcrafted by magical elves in Santa's Shangri-La workshop of only the very finest Chinesium so even the manufacturer will be fooled!" are as infinite as the Internet itself. From those so-called "suppliers" even were one to receive a watch, what's stopping them from shipping the exact same "bottom of the barrel" cheapie no matter how much you pay?

As the old adage goes: "buy the seller as well as the product." In my experience on various long established forums and in dealings with auction site sellers and reputable independent dealers with their own web sites, always pick a seller the value of whose well founded reputation greatly exceeds the total cost of your order. Not that I can afford this, but would I buy a $20k+ USD vintage or modern timepiece over the Internet? You bet HOWEVER I'd only do so from a vendor with a proven track record and $1,000,000's in previous sales, who relies on their hard-earned reputation to keep making such high-value sales via the Internet. For this I applied the same methodology albeit with less 0's behind the $. That's what the Trusted Dealers section is for!

Newbie Tip: Thoroughly research the particular factory and model of rep so you know what you're buying before you pull the proverbial trigger. To put it bluntly: there is NO SUCH THING as an "absolutely perfect 1:1 clone" - otherwise there wouldn't be so many members and so much information on forums like these, now would there? Setting aside "the NWBIG debate" (yes: all luxury brand goods are overpriced to some extent), no matter what anyone on the Internet tries to tell you, you're NOT getting a $10,000+ USD watch for $100 - $500 USD. That said, we love to post endlessly about "how close could we get for a given investment in money, time and/or mods?" but the former point is not in question.  An informed buyer is the one who learns the pros and cons of the "XYZ Factory <Make><Model>," has decided they're happy with that, and will therefore know upon receipt of QC pics whether or not their purchase is "up to spec" with other examples of that particular factory, make, and model.

With expectations greatly tempered by the fact I'm not buying a genuine high-end modern or collectible watch, I set my sights on the Trusted Dealers' list and read feedback from the forum regulars. For the factory and models of watch I want, where are the longtime members who are knowledgeable with that make/model getting theirs? I made my choice, politely asked a few questions to those who own multiples of what I want, and then reached out (using *only* the contact info posted by the TD themselves) to the vendor. Result? A very pleasant experience especially given how I'm new to this (having among other things never before used anything other than PayPal to transfer funds internationally).

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So what did I decide to get, and why?

Watch collectors can be notorious for borderline OCD tendencies, and it took me a few weeks to settle upon my chosen vict-... er, candidates for my first attempt at a budget build. As one who knows how to operate but is not highly skilled with power tools, I wanted to start small rather than sink "fat stacks" into a higher end piece in case I manage to trash the timepiece in question. After reading dozens of threads, including tutorials by the likes of @NCRich and @tripdog123, and very helpful and informative collection threads by folks like @Popperini, I settled on the following two watches:

a) JK Factory 5512 with A2813 movement;

b) JK Factory 1680 with A2813 movement;

At time of writing, these are available from MR for $100 USD apiece - still pretty inexpensive even after converting into "Canuck bucks."

Why those, and why two?

- I am very familiar with Oyster(tm) cased watches. My collection includes gen examples from the 1930's through to current production, and my first Rolex was a 1980's 5513 with gloss dial and metal indices;

- Minimal initial investment for maximum potential results according to my research, not to mention an abundance of tutorials and a great many aftermarket parts;

-If I do decide to progress from "budget" to mid tier build, a Vietnam or similar 551X dial - with an abundance of caution, very low speed rotation, and gentle application of an extra fine flat abrasive to the outer edge - can be shaved from 26.5mm to 26mm to fit the JKF case all without any DW/DWO woes;

- Though tempted by the COMEX, vintage SD, and other versions from JKF, I went with two whose cases and case backs have no special engravings or other features like HEV because I'm at liberty to transform them into most any "regular" variant of 551X or 1680 (I'm aware of and unconcerned about the engravings between the lugs);

- Not only are my goals entirely oriented toward the end result being convincing "on the wrist" rather than "with the case back open," A2813 movements are plentiful, cheap to replace if I manage to destroy a movement while removing/reinstalling the stem, hands, dial, etc;

- No matter what some rep sites say, the A2813 is actually a low-beat 21,600bph movement. This is ironically closer to the gen vintage pieces these particular watches approximate;

- Better yet, A2813 is also a nearly/fully "direct swap" with the Miyota 8215. I've read these Chinese movements are workhorses, however I may someday try to swap in the Japanese movement since it's durable and higher quality (not to mention still relatively inexpensive).

- Last but not least: Having two means that while one is disassembled and awaiting parts or for a certain mod to be completed, my having a second one to wear and fidget with in the meantime greatly reduces the risk of me trying to rush and further risk mucking up one or more of the mods "because I want to wear it already!"

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Current Status: Payment completed, QC done, and awaiting a tracking number.

Newbie Tip: Not only are we dealing with vendors who are quite often on the opposite end of the world both geographically and in terms of time zones, these are also NOT huge corporations whose hundreds/thousands of client support and warehouse staff can answer messages and/or ship instantaneously. Patience is a virtue, and a great outcome is well worth the wait.

Bear in mind that if you too have done your homework and chosen a Trusted Dealer, you've already exercised due diligence and can sit back, relax, and share your enthusiasm here with us while awaiting updates about your order.

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Project plans: Part 1

Note: These steps will be done over time by a newbie rather than all at once by an experienced modder. As such they're not in anything resembling the order the latter would do, and for the sake of clarity the watches will be disassembled to the required point prior to commencement of each step (rest assured I'm not reinstalling the bezel then trying to re-profile the case lugs without first separating the mid case from everything else!)

Bearing in mind one of Murphy's Rules of Combat which states "No plan of attack ever survives initial contact with the enemy," here's how I intend to start:

1. Bezel insert fading and proper installation: This is one of the most easily removed parts of the watch and in case of mishap one of the most easily (and, unless upgrading to something more expensive, also the most cheaply) replaced parts of the watch. I'll experiment with bleach and some light abrasives to get the desired effect of "well used but not abused." While I'm at it I'll pop out the hideous OEM pearl, which will eventually be replaced or "dug out and refilled with vintage lume." In the meantime a vintage watch with a missing pearl is perfectly plausible!

2. Bezel assembly tightening: Although not cheap to replace in its entirety since a decent bezel assembly can quickly equal or exceed the total cost for these A2813 watches, it's still relatively easy to remove and tweak particularly on these older bezels. I'll work on the flat spring to give it enough bend to keep the vintage style non-ratcheting bidirectional bezel snug and rotating more like it should (press down, rotate, release).

3. Bezel assembly thinning: Tripdog's Ten things to do with a JKF Sub thread includes information about shaving down the bezel height to make it match the original 5513/1680 more closely. I'll try doing so with metal sandpaper secured to a glass plate (for as evenly flat a surface as I can easily find). This is after all meant to be a budget build at least for now: if I can spare the expense of an aftermarket bezel assembly, so much the better.

4. Crystal replacement: Small spend, big difference! The stock JKF are fitted with "OMG Dome" crystals that are a far cry from gen.

a) 5512: According to this thread NCRich likes using Sternkreuz XS303.472 T19 type, which is what I'll go with as well;

b) 1680: I still have some homework to do regarding horizontal alignment of the 25-127 crystal's cyclops with the A2813 date window, but am leaning toward either the Clark (magnifies a tiny bit much) or Sternkreuz (magnifies a tiny bit too little) version.

5. Dial patina: Starting out simple, I'll use a model paint brush and some coffee to tint the hands and indices. I may go the route of a watchlume.com kit like NCRichlikes to use (more on this later).

6. Lug drilling: Drilling out the lugs to 1.3mm (per NCRich's advice that it will be easier to install 1.2mm shoulder less spring bars) and carefully chamfering the outer edges of the lug holes is definitely on the list. I can then throw the watch on a NATO or MN strap to wear while I make the required modifications to the bracelet end links and attachment points. I'm already aware that my dremel's minimum speed of 5,000 rpm is far too fast for drilling lug holes, so I'll have to scrounge up or get some time on a borrowed drill press to do this.

7. Crown guard reshaping: This is one of the more daunting tasks, which I'll carefully undertake while following tutorials and using as a reference my Ginault Ocean-Rover (which is apparently a TC Sub whose case dimensions are widely considered one of the gold standards for later 4-digit and 5-digit Submariners). To help keep things straight, I'm investing in one of these 220-01 workstations for my Dremel 3000. As for the insides of the crown guards, I'll use the cheapie 10-piece set of diamond files I just ordered on 'the bay' (If I get into doing more watches I'll spring for a better set of files, but if these last through two oyster cases before giving up the ghost that's fine for the $5 USD they cost).

8. Case bevel, brushing, and polishing: I'm going to slowly rework the stock case into something more presentable. I'm not certain whether I'll be able to do so successfully on my own, but will go slow and take frequent measurements. The aforementioned dremel workstation will come in handy on occasion for reshaping but since it's much easier to remove metal than to put it back, when in doubt I'll resort to metal sandpaper and those cheapie diamond files. Where the dremel will shine, pun intended, is with felt attachments and jeweler's rouge.

9. Bracelet brushing and polishing: After a well-deserved bath in my benchtop ultrasonic cleaner, I'll check for any stiffness or grittiness in how the links move, and once that's temporarily resolved (penetrating oil for now since there will be a second ultrasonic cleaning) I'll proceed with very lightly chamfering the edges of the outer links, then improving the overall appearance of the bracelet and clasp with the finer brushing I will have already used on the tops of the case lugs. This will have created some metal dust hence ultrasonic bath #2.

10. Gentle aging of case, outer bezel, and bracelet: Here's where I'm going to experiment a little. I happen to have a tumbler, and will start with something like a few thrift store butter knives which I can brush and buff to my heart's content before tossing in the tumbler to see whether the corn media on its own, or maybe with a few wood screws tossed in for good measure, will help impart a tasteful amount of aging before I risk the case and bracelet. I'll also have to carefully and effectively mask certain surfaces. Since I'll never use the stock crystals I'm not above sacrificing them to protect the rehaut, and can also affix the empty outer bezel. For the case back and JKF crown I plan on installing then masking them with painter's tape and finally covering with a piece of wood or plastic to keep the inside of the otherwise empty case isolated. The bracelet I can zip tie to a small piece of wood since there should be much less wear to the backs of the links than to the outer surfaces. Finally, frequent spot checking will be required to further ensure I don't go overboard.

11. Rain/swim proof: This last part of step one I may do at any point and will document, but here's a summary of my intent to come up with a fun "FWT" (Figmo Water Test): in addition to the above, I'm getting silicone grease and an assortment of gaskets, and will do informal low-grade DIY water resistance tests (with the internals removed from the case, of course, since I'll be using anything but watchmaker's equipment!) It'll start with a bucket and if things go well, culminate with 80 lb. test line suspended from a stationary motorboat in the middle of a lake next spring - more on this in future posts. I don't expect the resemblance to a true diver's watch to ever be more than skin deep, however if I can ensure mine remains sufficiently water tight for a trip to the beach or a dunk in a swimming pool, great!

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Project plans: Part 2

Assuming the end result of the above is at least one presentable Submariner, here are other things I'll consider:

12. New Crown and Tube: Athaya has been out of stock on these for awhile, so I hope they restock soon, or that there is an alternate source for equivalent parts that are as easy to swap. I've read these don't require the case to be re-tapped, but wouldn't mind countersinking the crown tube to improve the overall look.

13. Relume dial and hands: If after all this I'm considering a dial upgrade, I'll try this first however I'll want to find some pointers on how best to do this evenly on these dials (rather than on dials with applied metal markers, which are easier to do). Green painter's tape I have, and will have to learn whether I need to strip the old lume or whether I can apply new lume directly over what's already there.

14. Dial upgrade: Ruby's, Mochacha, etc. are possibilities, and I'm open to ideas so feel free to share! As mentioned previously I'm willing to attempt careful shaving of the dial to 26mm, and would start with a 551X "no date" for the sake of simplicity. I'll need to figure out what to do about dial feet but am mulling over a few ideas.

15. Hands upgrade: I also need to research what options for vintage style Mercedes hands exist for the A2813/8215 type movements. I'm ordering a set of hand pulling tools on 'the bay.'

16. Movement upgrade: Although I won't try to fix what ain't broke, if because of my tinkering or by pure happenstance one of the A2813's gives up the ghost, I may instead drop in a Miyota 8215. As mentioned previously I'm totally unconcerned with how my watch looks with the case back removed.

17. Bracelet upgrade: If I invest in a fairly nice Singer marked or similar dial, I'm tempted to go gilt and may therefore want a rivet type bracelet. If so, I'll have to consider my options and am not above making it look more gen by tweaking the size of the rivet heads and the like.

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That's the sum of what I've learned thus far, and I'm looking forward to receiving my watches and embarking upon my adventure. Come what may, I'll post updates when I have more to share. Here's hoping my not being highly skilled with tools and such doesn't result in misadventure, but I'll still share the results regardless in hopes they'll be of use as a learning experience. Thanks for reading and please feel free to share your feedback!

Edited November 29, 2020 by Figmo
Minor typos and misspelled nicknames

[markismyname 70]

God speed.

[CurioLeo 296]

And that qualifies as an awesome forum newbie post clearly made by someone not new to the watch or rep game! Welcome 

[Redfire1066 10,931]

Best wishes with your project.  Look forward to viewing the progress in words & pictures . ..  .

[RussP 22,136]

Welcome to RWG !

You be figmo and I be figjam 

[Figmo 61]

13 hours ago, RussP said:

Welcome to RWG !

You be figmo and I be figjam 

Fair dinkum, mate: throw some chook on the barbie this ava, I'm tossing a carton in the yute and will be there with Bluey in a flash!

(I have an Aussie cousin and am familiar with Kevin Bloody Wilson)

[deju 1,862]

Great introduction mate! As I said I’m excited to see how these builds go.

It is really an unspoken part of watch collecting but the passion and knowledge on the rep forums is great, I find places like risti and TRF much more ‘look at my watch’

before I forget one project that is worth checking out is @_DC_ and @Stuvetjee’s Sultan watch. 

 

[Figmo 61]

41 minutes ago, deju said:

Great introduction mate! As I said I’m excited to see how these builds go.

It is really an unspoken part of watch collecting but the passion and knowledge on the rep forums is great, I find places like risti and TRF much more ‘look at my watch’

before I forget one project that is worth checking out is @_DC_ and @Stuvetjee’s Sultan watch. 

 

Thanks for the link. I've read up on that stunning project and replied. Compared to that mine seems almost like a first attempt at blacksmithing with little more than a blowtorch and a rubber mallet

[GingerApple 7,273]

22 hours ago, Figmo said:

BCRich and.... Pupperoni

Well that's a long read! Interesting though, good luck on your journey.

Can we see some lovely pics of your Gens please!!!!

BCRich and Pupperoni sounds interesting fellas. I hope to come across then one day.

[Figmo 61]

1 hour ago, TheGingerFerret said:

Well that's a long read! Interesting though, good luck on your journey.

Can we see done lovely pics of your Gens please!!!!

BCRich and Pupperoni sounds interesting fellas. I hope to come across then one day.

Did I "fat finger" their names? Silly me: I'll go back and fix those typos up - and make mention of it here for the record so it doesn't seem like you're tilting at windmills.

I'm going to need all the luck I can get, and any guidance/pointers from those more experienced with modding in any instance where I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I'm approaching this as a fun hobby that will either result in my making an utter mess of things, or at best the means to an end that looks passable, probably took an order of magnitude more time than a watch smith would have needed, and will more than likely have end up costing me more in tools, parts, and especially learning curve than if I'd just sent my purchases off to be professionally modded in the first place. It's the adventure, for better or for worse, that will be priceless!

"The 'Bay" has been getting a lot of little purchases from me over the weekend. Rather than inundate this post with a string of boring photos, I condensed 'em all into over more easily skipped image...

- Generic flexible extension for my Dremel 3000;

- El Cheapo 10-piece set of likely crappy diamond files (if they last through two case mods the $5 USD invested will be worth it);

- El Cheapo digital caliper (my "less crappy" metal one might scratch polished surfaces);

- El Cheapo 10-pack of 1.3mm HSS cobalt drill bits;

- 10x Quality 2mm spring bars;

- Silicone gasket lube in an easy-to-use sponge;

- This YouTube video explains why these inexpensive hand pullers and presses sometimes get bad reviews, and how simple it is to make 'em work very well;

Once again, I welcome feedback and advice from those who have used these and other tools in the past.

Now we've gotten the boring photo and grocery listout of the way, I'll add a more interesting one per @TheGingerFerret's request as a "thanks" for the reply and well wishes. Enjoy!

This is my circa 1939 Rolex ref. 2764 bubbleback. I really dig the very audible "zip-zip-zip" noises its rotor makes while oscillating.

[Popperini 17,792]

To paraphrase (in a roundabout fashion) what others have said already, “Blimey! That’s a helluva post!”

It’s always fascinating (and usually quite humbling) to see the approach other enthusiasts take to modding their watches. I’ll be following this with great interest, and no doubt picking up new tips, tricks and whatnots along the way. 

At the risk of sticking my “oar of little experience or value” in, I can’t resist commenting that I don’t get on with the hand pushers and pullers you’ve illustrated, primarily because their vertical design makes them harder to use. It’s probably compounded by my use of a microscope as a much-needed magnifier. So I’ve found that a simple pair of levers works best for hand removal, and I use the edges of a pair of brass tweezers - plus a blob of Rodico on a bit of cocktail stick - to set the hands.

[BadPickle 2,738]

It there an audiobook version  

 

Best of luck pal with this, it’s a long road 

[Figmo 61]

I've forogtten to pick up some rodico. Off the "the 'bay" with me!

I'll surely be doing the DIY notched plastic dial protector underneath what I'll use to remove the hands. I've never before done that so it will only be after watching some YouTube videos and rereading various tutorials. Removal of hands is easy, but doing so without wreaking havoc is likely another matter entirely.

My intended numerical order of "things to try" roughly follows what I currently think is a path of easiest to hardest. I've nowhere near the experience needed to simply disassemble, perform all the necessary mods and swaps, then reassemble. I'll try something, measure, assess, then reassemble and see how happy I am with the results. Lather, rinse, repeat. If I do OK and am further bitten by the "modding" bug then I'll order more and/or better watches/parts and keep right on going.

@Popperini An unschooled observation of mine regarding the "OMG uber domed crystals" and "overly thick cases and bezels" oft commented on regarding JK Factory Submariners makes me wonder whether they decided to loosely base the cases and bezel on the vintage Sea-Dweller variants such that every other model using those same parts ended up being a chunked out "Wait a minute... I wanted a '58 Elvis, not a '78 Elvis!"

Edited November 30, 2020 by Figmo

[Figmo 61]

8 minutes ago, pickledbeetroot said:

It there an audiobook version  

 

Best of luck pal with this, it’s a long road 

There may eventually be a streaming miniseries called "When Watch Modding goes Horribly Awry!"

In a worst case scenario I'll have some salvageable spare parts and order replacement watch/parts either to try again or to have modded by a seasoned forum member. In that case I'll likely be stubborn enough to try again after soothing my bruised ego with a few pints and clicking "buy now" to order replacements. Speaking of buying: I should probably get a magnifying glass on a flexible arm, or one of those wearable magnifiers. I don't need reading glasses yet but my eyes aren't getting any younger...

[paccbet 7,176]

Excellent intro from a not so newbie member. We need more people like you!

[J!m 289]

You sir, have opened Pandora’s watch box. 

I wish you the best of luck. Because, it really is as hard as it looks. 

a couple pointers:

1) don’t buy cheap drill bits. Ever. I open lug holes holding the case in my hand and a hand drill in the other. Because I use good bits and good cutting oil (tap magic). 

2)  polishing with a tiny felt wheel is a great way to make a wavy surface. Keep it flat up to 1500 at least and then use a big flappy wheel to polish. “Brush” after you polish. 

3) get a loupe. A #2 focuses at ~2 inches- about 7x. That’s what I use the most. 

4) get more light. 

[Figmo 61]

@J!m Thanks for the advice! I'll look for a couple high quality bits, possibly at a pro/machine shop supply place.

Good to know regarding the risk of wavy lines so I can avoid that as well. I've seen a big floppy wheel used on a drill press in one of the tutorials.

The only loupes I currently have are the handheld jeweler's type which aren't bad for peering at stuff but not at all practical for use while trying to work on things.  I'll also ensure I am able to have more light than I think I'll need.

As for Pandora, I hope she is cute and likes guys who wear nice watches

[Update]

I'm going to edit my existing post rather than add a reply regarding only two items on my shopping list. Living in ice-cold Canuckistan presents a few challenges, one of them being a sharp increase in cross-border shipping cost for products offered by retailers from the much larger U.S. market just next door because most insist on UPS or similar. @J!m mentioned Forney Tap Magic, however it's only available on Amazon from a U.S. seller ($$$ shipping). Other sellers offer the small bottles but only by the case.

Thankfully my local "pro & machine shop supply store" sells individual 4 oz bottles of Relton Rapid Tap for only $5 CAD.  Since I need to pay 'em a visit for quality 1.3mm and 1.5mm drill bits anyway I may as well pick up a bottle. According to this YouTube video it seems to be roughly the same sort of stuff from a competitor.

Speaking of drill bits, I've done some reading and these seem both suitable and available through my local shop (link provided is to a U.S. site): Dormer Split Point Drill Bit 0007570.  I've added one to my shopping list - feel free to chime in with any suggestions or alternatives.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Figmo
Researched cutting fluid and drill bits

[Figmo 61]

Something showed up at my door today...

My vict-... er, project watches, have arrived!

[Figmo 61]

TBM since they've only arrived today, however here's a snapshot of my freshly unwrapped 1680:

I'll post a pic of the 5512 later.

[anj4de 2]

Most excellent...thanks a lot!