Asian 2836-2 to ETA Swap

[Aramis2288 6,236]

Hi all,

I am thinking of buying the BP Factory's 1670 Rolex GMT Marter II or Tudor GMT but given the issues with the movement most probably sooner or later it will require repairs. I suppose it may be worth upgrading it to swiss ETA from the get-go.

Does anybody know whether the Asian 2836-2 GMT movement (a.k.a. Time Bomb) can be directly swapped with Swiss ETA 2836-2 with no modifications?

I've done some reading but the opinions seem to be divided. Some people claim it's a direct swap including the dial and the hands, others claim the swiss ETA would require changing the H4 gear / hour wheel.

@GenTLe, given your undisputed authority regarding the technical matters, do you have any idea?

P.S. My apologies if this topic has been covered before, I didn't find a satisfactory answer to this question.

[GenTLe 1,490]

Hi Mate, the 2836 GMT, when the hand stack from the dial to the crystal is GMT-Hour-Minute-Second is NOT a time bomb at all  It's the Hangzhou 6460 which is a fairly reliable movement

The time bombs are those with the so called "correct hand stack" (Hour-GMT-Minute-Second) based on 2836/2824. 

So don't worry.

And if it breaks (which by now I haven't seen happen) you can just replace it with another hangzhou 6460 or with an A2836 and then transfer the few bits that makes the difference between those 2 (like 3/4 pieces).

 

[Aramis2288 6,236]

Nice stuff! Thanks a lot @GenTLe!

So it seems like this Tudor should be fine: https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=228&products_id=19216

How about this Rolex https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5&products_id=16804 ? The movement they are claiming is '3168 Clone' which most certainly is some sort of A2836 with glued plates to make it look like the Genuine Rolex caliber. Any idea whether it's disguised time bomb or not?

[BoobBandit 1,311]

I have a Sellita  SW220-1 for that Rolex I’ve been meaning to get, @Aramis2288 what’s the word from Andrew on delivery timetable on that one if you don’t mind mate? 
 

although my understanding is that the 2836-2 movements or the Sellita clone is a day date movement. 

[Aramis2288 6,236]

10 minutes ago, BoobBandit said:

I have a Sellita  SW220-1 for that Rolex I’ve been meaning to get, @Aramis2288 what’s the word from Andrew on delivery timetable on that one if you don’t mind mate? 
 

although my understanding is that the 2836-2 movements or the Sellita clone is a day date movement. 

As far as know Sellita SW220-1 is considered to be a non-chinese clone of the ETA 2836-2. I am not sure whether there are any subtle differences between these two or not - unfortunately, my knowledge about the technicalities of movements is minimal.

If it is about the availability, I haven't spoken to any TD about it after the raids have taken place, so unfortunately I will not be able to comment on the current availability. In this thread, I meant to gather some info so that I can make a well-informed decision.

 

On the bright side, some smaller factories seem to be operational so perhaps (hopefully) the BP is one of them.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Aramis2288

[BoobBandit 1,311]

13 minutes ago, Aramis2288 said:

As far as know Sellita SW220-1 is considered to be a non-chinese clone of the ETA 2836-2. I am not sure whether there are any subtle differences between these two or not - unfortunately, my knowledge about the technicalities of movements is minimal.

If it is about the availability, I haven't spoken to any TD about it after the raids have taken place, so unfortunately I will not be able to comment on the current availability. In this thread, I meant to gather some info so that I can make a well-informed decision.

 

yeah, I'm not sure you've got the right movement for a GMT mate. The ETA 2836-2 or Sellita SW220-1 is a day date.

regarding differences, The Sellita is a clone of the ETA as the patent is no longer current. If you want to go swiss, it's like for like, is my understanding

Edited May 7, 2021 by BoobBandit
left out context

[GenTLe 1,490]

1 hour ago, Aramis2288 said:

Nice stuff! Thanks a lot @GenTLe!

So it seems like this Tudor should be fine: https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=228&products_id=19216

How about this Rolex https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5&products_id=16804 ? The movement they are claiming is '3168 Clone' which most certainly is some sort of A2836 with glued plates to make it look like the Genuine Rolex caliber. Any idea whether it's disguised time bomb or not?

Tudor is fine, I've it too  Rolex: it's like the Tudor but they have modified a bit the movement adding a different balance bridge (non really a smart move if you ask me on a movement which is invisible anyway) and painting red 2 of the gears of the autowind system. On the Rolex, if the movement goes TFU you can replace it with zero problem with the Hangzhou 6460 (same movement, just modified by the factory in parts that aren't releated to how the movement will fit the case or hands).

[Aramis2288 6,236]

6 minutes ago, GenTLe said:

Tudor is fine, I've it too  Rolex: it's like the Tudor but they have modified a bit the movement adding a different balance bridge (non really a smart move if you ask me on a movement which is invisible anyway) and painting red 2 of the gears of the autowind system. On the Rolex, if the movement goes TFU you can replace it with zero problem with the Hangzhou 6460 (same movement, just modified by the factory in parts that aren't releated to how the movement will fit the case or hands).

Now only some patience is required until the factories reopened.... 
(I f. hate waiting)

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Aramis2288

[GenTLe 1,490]

49 minutes ago, BoobBandit said:

I have a Sellita  SW220-1 for that Rolex I’ve been meaning to get, @Aramis2288 what’s the word from Andrew on delivery timetable on that one if you don’t mind mate? 
 

although my understanding is that the 2836-2 movements or the Sellita clone is a day date movement. 

SW220 and Eta 2836 are basically the very same movement (Sellita was producing movements for ETA, you can imagine...). Both Swiss makers.

They are day-date but the day wheel can be removed and used as date only.

The GMT versions  aren't existent for any of those (there are ETA/Sellita GMT movements, but they are based on the 2892A2 design which is a totally different movement and isn't compatible with cases made for the 2836).

The Asian "2836 GMT" is a clone of the 2836 movement without the day complication and, in its place, there are mounted parts to transform it into a GMT movement.

You can theoretically transform an ETA/Sellita 2836/SW220 into a GMT installing the parts from the Asian, BUT there is a problem: you need to get the version of those Swiss ones with the tall pinions for the hands. In other words: let it alone, get the Hangzhou 6460 which is already as you need.

The quality of the base models of ETA 2836, Sellita 220, Hangzhou 6460 and SeaGull 2100 are in pair, there's no point to go for the swiss ones.

[Aramis2288 6,236]

1 hour ago, GenTLe said:

The GMT versions aren't existent for any of those (there are ETA/Sellita GMT movements, but they are based on the 2892A2 design which is a totally different movement and isn't compatible with cases made for the 2836).

The Asian "2836 GMT" is a clone of the 2836 movement without the day complication and, in its place, there are mounted parts to transform it into a GMT movement.

You can theoretically transform an ETA/Sellita 2836/SW220 into a GMT installing the parts from the Asian, BUT there is a problem: you need to get the version of those Swiss ones with the tall pinions for the hands. In other words: let it alone, get the Hangzhou 6460 which is already as you need.

That explains a lot! My understanding was that ETA 2836-2 does have the GMT complication OOTB (hence the title of this post). Now I get the drill.

Thanks for the advice! The part about Hangzhou 6460 especially

Edited May 7, 2021 by Aramis2288

[BoobBandit 1,311]

1 hour ago, GenTLe said:

The GMT versions  aren't existent for any of those (there are ETA/Sellita GMT movements, but they are based on the 2892A2 design which is a totally different movement and isn't compatible with cases made for the 2836).

The Asian "2836 GMT" is a clone of the 2836 movement without the day complication and, in its place, there are mounted parts to transform it into a GMT movement.

You can theoretically transform an ETA/Sellita 2836/SW220 into a GMT installing the parts from the Asian, BUT there is a problem: you need to get the version of those Swiss ones with the tall pinions for the hands. In other words: let it alone, get the Hangzhou 6460 which is already as you need.

The quality of the base models of ETA 2836, Sellita 220, Hangzhou 6460 and SeaGull 2100 are in pair, there's no point to go for the swiss ones.

Ah thanks for the great insight mate, I've been wanting a Rolex GMT, but was not defined yet on what quality there was for the movement. 

I already own the Sellita movement and so perhaps I will make the modification to add the GMT complication. I am able to source the tall pinions and perhaps the hands can come from a SEIKO mod....

still hatching a plan for this...cheers

[Aramis2288 6,236]

10 minutes ago, BoobBandit said:

Ah thanks for the great insight mate, I've been wanting a Rolex GMT, but was not defined yet on what quality there was for the movement. 

I already own the Sellita movement and so perhaps I will make the modification to add the GMT complication. I am able to source the tall pinions and perhaps the hands can come from a SEIKO mod....

still hatching a plan for this...cheers

I checked quickly and Hangzhou 6460 goes for around $130. Still not too shabby!

Now I gotta choose between the Tudor GMT and an oldie Rolex GMT. I know that Tudor is a very well-made rep, but visually I am much more attracted to BP's GMT Master. Not sure I can live with all the flaws though

[BoobBandit 1,311]

yup, the ETA 2892A2 movement goes for 330 dollars..... It is nickel plated which doesn't help the cost. problem is wrong size for that GMT case, thats correct right mate? @GenTLe

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by BoobBandit
fix price

[deju 1,857]

Presonally I’d rock the watch as is and if it broke and I really liked the watch I’d upgrade at that point to Swiss. 

[BoobBandit 1,311]

1 hour ago, deju said:

Presonally I’d rock the watch as is and if it broke and I really liked the watch I’d upgrade at that point to Swiss. 

I mean, sure, that said, when I  buy a rep, I  get an idea of what’s involved should it take a nosedive before I get into it. 
 

its said that GMT reps have newer unproven clone movements., don’t get it, because it’s 50/50 you have a paperweight, unless you’re willing to do some spending.

think of this as the part were one is supposing to do some spending 
 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by BoobBandit
left out context

[GenTLe 1,490]

1 hour ago, Aramis2288 said:

I checked quickly and Hangzhou 6460 goes for around $130.

Naaaa....

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001008171061.html this is exactly a Hangzhou 6460. You need to search it as "2836 GMT".

[GenTLe 1,490]

38 minutes ago, BoobBandit said:

its said that GMT reps have newer unproven clone movements., don’t get it, because it’s 50/50 you have a paperweight, unless you’re willing to do some spending.

Wait, there are clones and clones. The problematic ones are the "CHS" based on modified 2824/2836. The REAL Rolex clones aren't that bad.

Check out here: 

 

And yes, you can't put a 2893 (the GMT 2892) into any case designed for 2824/2836 or Rolex clone movements. Hands, movement ring, stem height... All wrong.

[BoobBandit 1,311]

Good stuff mate! @GenTLe  I will take this into account when pursuing my next project!

[Aramis2288 6,236]

Naaaa....
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001008171061.html this is exactly a Hangzhou 6460. You need to search it as "2836 GMT".

Even better mate

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