honeybear 0 Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) Alex Lee at Perpetual Watch is highly regarded on the chinese mechanical forum at Watchuseek, and makes some wonderfully crafted watches which use various chinese tourbillon movements. If you're looking for a good quality and reliable non-replica tourbillon, he has my recommendation. http://www.perpetual-watch.com/ In any case, he has done a comparison study of the various tourbillon movements which are available, and I wanted to share this with the other forum members. What follows is due to Alex: I am a Blancpain fan right from the beginning, my collection wouldn't be possible without its influence. Blancpain created the Carrousel-Tourbillon in the late 90's and I have loved it ever since. I was always curious why 9 out of 10 (10 out of 10 most of the time) of watch lovers would prefer the Breguet's coaxial Tourbillon over the Carrousel-Tourbillon. Blancpain adapted its Tourbillon from the original carrousel construction for its more visible display of the escapement instead of being underneath the balance wheel as in Breguet type. The Carrousel-Tourbillon also can achieve with a thinner movement thickness because the escapement is in line with the balance wheel. When I finally made my own Tourbillon collection, my first Tourbillon had to be the Carrousel-Tourbillon employing the TianJin’s ST8000 caliber. Then later I introduced the automatic Tourbillon DG8101 into my collection, something happened to me almost seemingly without a trace, I was miraculously getting attracted by the coaxial Tourbillon, the more I looked at it, the more I was captured by it. Since the Carrousel-Tourbillon’s balance wheel is smaller than the one used in coaxial type, the coaxial Tourbillon’s bigger balance wheel in fact is much more impressive to be looked at. In addition, the flying Tourbillon is relatively more vulnerable to be damaged by accidental impacts while the coaxial type is very solid being mounted on the same main pinion. Try log onto my website and go to the VIDEO webpage, do yourself a favor, watch both ST8000 & DG8101 & the recent added SH F-8’s videos at least 3-5 times, you might experience what I had experienced and might join the others as a Breguet's coaxial type Tourbillon fan too. The anatomy on all Chinese Tourbillons HangZhou HZ (PTS) Tourbillon FD3091 series, the carriage is not very attractive, like a pigeon, and their new FD3900 is coaxial, manual winding and off-center hands display, the beating rate of 28’800 bph, not 21’600 bph. I do have a problem with the day/night display, very ridiculous for any Tourbillon I must say. HZ FD3091 HZ FD3900 ShangHai SH Tourbillon, I like its display of seconds hand on top of the carriage, its hands are center-axis & manual winding. One of the most expensive Tourbillons since every makers had a drastic 60% reduction 2 years ago but not Shanghai. The movement back is not very impressive, too simple. The SH had already successfully made an Orbital Tourbillon and the Double Tourbillon, the Triple Tourbillon is on its way. My latest automatic Tourbillon AT series featuring the newest SH F-8 movement, by far the best Chinese Tourbillon in terms of the Tourbillon type, beating rate, with power reserve & day-date features added, and most of all, the SH F-8 ‘s price is now more approachable than its manual predecessor. LiaoNing LN Tourbillon as shown in the BHI ‘s pic, The first generation Chinese Tourbillon, has been flooding the market ever since. Personally I think it's the worst. The carriage looks like a freak, it is manual winding, center-axis hands display and very inexpensive, the BHI (British Horological Institute) Tourbillon is selling it at less than 400 pounds on the web. BeiJing BJ Tourbillon, the carriage looks real odd as well as the back, it is center-axis hands display and manual winding, the price is as expensive as the SH since both had avoided the Tourbillon movement’s price war which led to a massive price cuts. Many experts view the BJ & SH are much better than the others, I suspect mostly because of their high prices, but I personally think they are not that far better than the rest. The BJ has proven its supremacy achieving making the first Chinese Minute Repeater Tourbillon and most recently the bi-axial 3D Tourbillon as well. TianJin ST Tourbillon series is certainly one of the best, also the price is very attractive, but not their branded watches seagull , way over-priced I must say. The ST8000 is very reliable according to my over 3 years’ personal experience, both by using & wearing it. The movement back is the most impressive one among all the others. Although the new automatic ST8000 is available, ST8002ZG is in fact ST8000 with an additional rotor for self-winding, now seagull is only selling this caliber with the 18-carat gold models only, the stainless steel model won't be available any time soon. On the other hand, the ST8000 offers an attractive price, although off-center hands display, but with my improper-proportioned hands, you might not notice it at all. The advantage of manual winding is, no obstruction to view the carriage from the back, automatic rotor will always get in the way at 6 o'clock position, in fact, all major prestigious Swiss Tourbillons are manual winding. An update on seagull, they have now included a coaxial Tourbillon in their collection, again available in precious metal models only. Recently I have introduced another seagull Tourbillon caliber ST8001 with added Power Reserve & Date, the movement costs 2/3 more than ST8000. Personally I would prefer ST8000, again for the same reason, the Tourbillon carriage is the major attraction and should be left alone. GuangDong DG Tourbillon, it was previously employed in my automatic Tourbillon series, the first ever Chinese made automatic Tourbillon, currently the only automatic coaxial Chinese Tourbillon has registered a patent in Switzerland. The DG8101 is a typical Breguet coaxial type and is often called center Tourbillon. 8 out of 10 watch lovers will prefer it over the Carrousel-Tourbillon. You are likely to find a similar DG8101 Tourbillon movement by other brands with added day-date displays (DG8000). Since DG8101 is off-center hands display, with added day-date subdials on top, from an aesthetic point of view, I find it very awkward, the Tourbillon’s carriage is the ultimate major attraction and should be left alone. We had stopped employed this caliber from our collection ever since the ShangHai F-8 AT Tourbillons were introduced in earlier 2010. Edited July 1, 2011 by honeybear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crewldude 0 Posted July 1, 2011 Very informative! Thanks for sharing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Member X 91 Posted July 1, 2011 Perpetual can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. A while ago I emailed with an enquiry, asked if all the dials were the same (because the finish wasn't spot on where the numerals were mounted to the guilloche dial but I could have lived with it, it wasn't a massive issue) and he came back with some completely unprovoked, unnecessary attack on my persona, saying I should give up looking completely because I would never find the 'perfection' I was apparently expecting. :P Arrogance is not an attractive trait and I actively avoid giving any trade to such self-opinionated evangelists of their own work, who can accept no criticism without going on the attack rather than confidently saying 'well, ok, I will agree to disagree'. I will never buy a watch from perpetual, even if it's a tri-tourbillon made from platinum-plated unobtanium and sold for $100!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honeybear 0 Posted July 1, 2011 Perpetual can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. A while ago I emailed with an enquiry, asked if all the dials were the same (because the finish wasn't spot on where the numerals were mounted to the guilloche dial but I could have lived with it, it wasn't a massive issue) and he came back with some completely unprovoked, unnecessary attack on my persona, saying I should give up looking completely because I would never find the 'perfection' I was apparently expecting. :P Arrogance is not an attractive trait and I actively avoid giving any trade to such self-opinionated evangelists of their own work, who can accept no criticism without going on the attack rather than confidently saying 'well, ok, I will agree to disagree'. I will never buy a watch from perpetual, even if it's a tri-tourbillon made from platinum-plated unobtanium and sold for $100!! Sorry to hear about your experience. There are certainly reports of Alex being rather temperamental, sort of like the Soup Nazi in Seinfeld... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omni 6 Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks for posting the info, very informative. I don't agree with Alex on a few points but it is a matter of taste as I like the carousel which seems more animated on my wrist. I've got a skeleton version of the ST8000 and its been pretty solid over 4 years now. As Member X revealed, Alex seems opinionated anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honeybear 0 Posted July 2, 2011 Thanks for posting the info, very informative. I don't agree with Alex on a few points but it is a matter of taste as I like the carousel which seems more animated on my wrist. I've got a skeleton version of the ST8000 and its been pretty solid over 4 years now. As Member X revealed, Alex seems opinionated anyways. Looking at the carousel tourbillons, I think the aesthetics depends a great deal on the carriage design. I do agree that the carousel tourbillons are much more animated than the coaxial tourbillons. Did you get one of these? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omni 6 Posted July 2, 2011 Did you get one of these? Yep, same one in silver. It was only $700 USD 4 years ago, can't believe they are selling those for twice that today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honeybear 0 Posted July 3, 2011 Did you get one of these? Yep, same one in silver. It was only $700 USD 4 years ago, can't believe they are selling those for twice that today. Very nice, Seagull movements are a cut above other Chinese movements. They've been trying to go upmarket, and have increased their prices correspondingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theflyingdutchman 0 Posted July 5, 2011 So which tourby is this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honeybear 0 Posted July 6, 2011 So which tourby is this? I believe that this is a PTS Hangzhou Tourbillon movement, like the one in my JLC Master Tourbillon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
honeybear 0 Posted July 7, 2011 Most of the Seagull single tourbillon movements are carousel tourbillons, like the Skeleton movement Luthier posted above, whereas the HBB has a co-axial tourbillon. There is however a Seagull single co-axial tourbillon movement, which is used in their model 818.860 watch, seen below. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeanusMaximus 0 Posted October 27, 2011 Very useful info - thanks, think I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and go tourby :P I've stared at them on youtube long enough... now I've got to wait for someone to rep a minute repeater.... .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamelo 0 Posted October 27, 2011 I have the Liaoning LN movt in a Breguet tourb. I sent it back once for a defective buckle. It also wasn't winding properly. When I got it back, it was running fast--about 5 mins per hr. I'm waiting for Mike to adjust it. The watch is a rep of a $150K watch--for about $460. Cheap or expensive--depending on how you look at it. Cheap--if it works. Expensive if it doesn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kwatch 0 Posted January 15, 2012 Thanks for posting the info, very informative. I don't agree with Alex on a few points but it is a matter of taste as I like the carousel which seems more animated on my wrist. I've got a skeleton version of the ST8000 and its been pretty solid over 4 years now. As Member X revealed, Alex seems opinionated anyways. Looking at the carousel tourbillons, I think the aesthetics depends a great deal on the carriage design. I do agree that the carousel tourbillons are much more animated than the coaxial tourbillons. Did you get one of these? What model is this? it's really sharp! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luthier 1 Posted January 15, 2012 Tianjin Seagull ST-8080, nickel plated. Same as in my post above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machiavegli 6 Posted January 19, 2012 Nice article, thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shandroid 0 Posted January 20, 2012 And, what of the HBB skeleton tourby - which is that? This is a fantastic post by the way.... With some boobs, it would have been damn near perfect! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeffw69 0 Posted January 20, 2012 Is it true, once you go tourby, you never go back? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theflyingdutchman 0 Posted January 20, 2012 And, what of the HBB skeleton tourby - which is that? This is a fantastic post by the way.... With some boobs, it would have been damn near perfect! AHH! I see soem RG guests... that here use the RG-forbidden words.... "boobs".... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theflyingdutchman 0 Posted January 20, 2012 Is it true, once you go tourby, you never go back? Yes! Just like once you ever have XXXX a YYYYY then you cannot go back.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeffw69 0 Posted January 20, 2012 This is my dream tourby: Retails at $94K, I am so sure that I could pull it off! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shandroid 0 Posted January 22, 2012 And, what of the HBB skeleton tourby - which is that? This is a fantastic post by the way.... With some boobs, it would have been damn near perfect! AHH! I see soem RG guests... that here use the RG-forbidden words.... "boobs".... I couldn't resist Dutchy - thanks for the link... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theflyingdutchman 0 Posted January 22, 2012 This is my dream tourby: Retails at $94K, I am so sure that I could pull it off! The rep is quite okay! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corv99 2 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) So which tourby is this? I believe that this is a PTS Hangzhou Tourbillon movement, like the one in my JLC Master Tourbillon. How do you find the JLC? any issues? this one is in my sights, but cost is still preying on my mind dropping that much! Saw Dendo's up close which makes it worse, its a beauty It's on my 'thinking carefully about everyting you buy in future' phase I'm now in! but cost at $500 is still a lot, Edited January 22, 2012 by corv99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
