Factory Question (Sub)

[Watchfanman 0]

Hi all, brand new to the Rep hobby. 2 QQ’s.

Does anyone have any experience in terms of quality of a Sub from V6F vs from V9F ? 

The model I'm interested in is the Blaken Submariner Red.

In terms of mvmt which do you prefer and why:

VS3135

VR3135

A2836

Advice/help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[BadApple 13,230]

........

Edited September 2, 2022 by BadApple

[Tommy Sky 15]

As far as I know (not an expert), in regards to movments  VR>VS>A, no matter what rep factory.

 

If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me :-)

[fatarms 7,825]

8 minutes ago, Tommy Sky said:

As far as I know (not an expert), in regards to movments  VR>VS>A, no matter what rep factory.

 

If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me :-)

Actually, it's VS > VR for the clone 3135 movements with the VS being cleaner and smoother for the most part.  It also accepts more gen parts directly than the VR.

Asian 2836 are clone ETA movements and will be very reliable and easily (cheaply) replaced but you will not be able to franken or put gen parts into that watch.

[GenTLe 1,510]

14 minutes ago, Tommy Sky said:

As far as I know (not an expert), in regards to movments  VR>VS>A, no matter what rep factory.

 

If anyone knows otherwise, please correct me :-)

Nope. A2824 or (better due to the instant date change) A2836 are surely better than the other 2 in terms of reliability and serviceability. The other 2 are clone of Rolex movements made just for replica watches, while the ETA copy (A2836 is the clone of ETA 2836) is a well known movement used in TONS of watches and, in his swiss version, also in prestige watches like Longines, Tag, Tissot, Mido, and many more.

The difference from "the outside" of the watch is simply the crown that is a couple of tents of mm higher or lower (respect to the case). Simply that.

[Tommy Sky 15]

22 hours ago, fatarms said:

Actually, it's VS > VR for the clone 3135 movements with the VS being cleaner and smoother for the most part.  It also accepts more gen parts directly than the VR.

Asian 2836 are clone ETA movements and will be very reliable and easily (cheaply) replaced but you will not be able to franken or put gen parts into that watch.

Thank you for the info. The more you know... 

[Tommy Sky 15]

22 hours ago, GenTLe said:

Nope. A2824 or (better due to the instant date change) A2836 are surely better than the other 2 in terms of reliability and serviceability. The other 2 are clone of Rolex movements made just for replica watches, while the ETA copy (A2836 is the clone of ETA 2836) is a well known movement used in TONS of watches and, in his swiss version, also in prestige watches like Longines, Tag, Tissot, Mido, and many more.

The difference from "the outside" of the watch is simply the crown that is a couple of tents of mm higher or lower (respect to the case). Simply that.

As mentioned above - the more you (in this case - I) know, the wiser I get. Thanx for the information, mate!

 

I am waiting for my first Sub re now, it's a VSF watch with a VS3235 movement, so I hope the movement will work well and I won't have to worry about it.

Once again, thank you!

[tribefan 6,768]

27 minutes ago, Tommy Sky said:

As mentioned above - the more you (in this case - I) know, the wiser I get. Thanx for the information, mate!

 

I am waiting for my first Sub re now, it's a VSF watch with a VS3235 movement, so I hope the movement will work well and I won't have to worry about it.

Once again, thank you!

3XXX Clone movements are not as bad as they once were. They made improvements with the different versions, and they are gettable on Ali express now, where in the past, finding a replacement movement or parts was more expensive than buying a new watch.

[AwesomeSauce 19]

I prefer the VS movement too however for my 'keepers' I tend to get a gen swiss movement in it to ensure it will take a beating and keep ticking

 

Whatever you go for make sure you buy from a trusted dealer though!!

[Tommy Sky 15]

On 03/09/2022 at 17:59, AwesomeSauce said:

I prefer the VS movement too however for my 'keepers' I tend to get a gen swiss movement in it to ensure it will take a beating and keep ticking

 

Whatever you go for make sure you buy from a trusted dealer though!!

How do you get swiss gen movements? ETA? Are they somehow obtainable?

[Tommy Sky 15]

On 02/09/2022 at 17:15, fatarms said:

Actually, it's VS > VR for the clone 3135 movements with the VS being cleaner and smoother for the most part.  It also accepts more gen parts directly than the VR.

Asian 2836 are clone ETA movements and will be very reliable and easily (cheaply) replaced but you will not be able to franken or put gen parts into that watch.

As far as I checked, factories moved away from A2836 movements, at least in the watch models I am interested in. Noob was using them, GMF also in older versions of GMT II, and right now these are mostly put in DateJust/DateDay, SeaDweller etc. rolexes and some Breitlings/Blancpain. Do you know what was the reason? Costs or just moving to "in-house" chinese moements decorated as Gen movements?

[AwesomeSauce 19]

1 hour ago, Tommy Sky said:

How do you get swiss gen movements? ETA? Are they somehow obtainable?

Yeah ETA, Soprod and Sellita are readily available from watch supply houses such as cousinsUK, Ernest Borel, Beko Technica etc.

If your rep is an A2824 then an ETA 2824 is a straight swap, same hand size, movement diameter, thickness so it's relatively easy and I find is better than trying to service a clone movement

[Tommy Sky 15]

1 hour ago, AwesomeSauce said:

Yeah ETA, Soprod and Sellita are readily available from watch supply houses such as cousinsUK, Ernest Borel, Beko Technica etc.

If your rep is an A2824 then an ETA 2824 is a straight swap, same hand size, movement diameter, thickness so it's relatively easy and I find is better than trying to service a clone movement

Wow, didn't know that. Will keep this option in mind, thanx a million!!!

[GenTLe 1,510]

2 hours ago, Tommy Sky said:

As far as I checked, factories moved away from A2836 movements, at least in the watch models I am interested in. Noob was using them, GMF also in older versions of GMT II, and right now these are mostly put in DateJust/DateDay, SeaDweller etc. rolexes and some Breitlings/Blancpain. Do you know what was the reason? Costs or just moving to "in-house" chinese moements decorated as Gen movements?

They moved away for 2 reasons: 

1) for Rolex ones, if they put a rolex clone they can ask for more money. Also probably people want more those ones with rolex clones.

2) for GMT ones, in the rolex case there was a "problem" with the hand stack: Rolex has, from the dial up, hour, GMT, minute and second hands. The A2836 GMT version (actually Hangzhou 6460 movement) has instead GMT, hour, minute, second. They tried to modify the HZ 6460 to match the rolex hand stack, but it was a mess of a movement, very very bad. For the other (non Rolex) you can still find realizations with the HZ6460 when the GMT watch is a "office GMT" (i.e. breitling Avenger 2 GMT), while for the "traveler GMT" (i.e. Omega) they tend to use custom movements like where the regulation is on the hour hand.

For the difference between office and traveler GMT see here:

https://timeandtidewatches.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-caller-or-traveller-gmt-which-should-you-choose/

[Tommy Sky 15]

13 minutes ago, GenTLe said:

They moved away for 2 reasons: 

1) for Rolex ones, if they put a rolex clone they can ask for more money. Also probably people want more those ones with rolex clones.

2) for GMT ones, in the rolex case there was a "problem" with the hand stack: Rolex has, from the dial up, hour, GMT, minute and second hands. The A2836 GMT version (actually Hangzhou 6460 movement) has instead GMT, hour, minute, second. They tried to modify the HZ 6460 to match the rolex hand stack, but it was a mess of a movement, very very bad. For the other (non Rolex) you can still find realizations with the HZ6460 when the GMT watch is a "office GMT" (i.e. breitling Avenger 2 GMT), while for the "traveler GMT" (i.e. Omega) they tend to use custom movements like where the regulation is on the hour hand.

For the difference between office and traveler GMT see here:

https://timeandtidewatches.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-caller-or-traveller-gmt-which-should-you-choose/

Thank you for the in-depth information, GenTLe! I noticed a "CHS" notification in Rolex GMT descriptions, now I know where did this come from.

And I kinda sunk in the watch quicksand deep enough to already find out what the difference between office and traveller GMT is, but nonetheless - thank you very much!

Do you think these CHS movements, or VS movements for other watches, are good enough to get the reps with these, or A28xx movements are that much better one should stick to reps with these only?

[GenTLe 1,510]

1 hour ago, Tommy Sky said:

Thank you for the in-depth information, GenTLe! I noticed a "CHS" notification in Rolex GMT descriptions, now I know where did this come from.

And I kinda sunk in the watch quicksand deep enough to already find out what the difference between office and traveller GMT is, but nonetheless - thank you very much!

Do you think these CHS movements, or VS movements for other watches, are good enough to get the reps with these, or A28xx movements are that much better one should stick to reps with these only?

I think that nowadays for Rolex is probably better (for sure in case of the GMT) to go for the VS/VR movement (the rolex clones).

But in case of a non GMT (see Oyster perpetual, Sub,ariner, Milgauss, datejust and so on) I still prefer the ETA clones (consider that I service them myself, both the Rolex and the Eta clones, as like as Miyota or other movements), mainly because they are workhorses, they are proven good, they beat at the same rate (28800BPH) of the Rolex ones (so you can't be caught like for those cheap fakes with 28$ movements inside that beat at 21600BPH) and you can find single parts for them from CousinsUK or other supplierts (the gen ETA spare parts will fit on them). Other the fact that they are cheaper and the whole movements are also cheaper.

See for instance the 2824: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000127839505.html

And the 2836: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003222536340.html

Versus the latest Rolex clone (version used in the Sub/Seadweller...):  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804203274240.html (this is the version with visible regulator, which I prefer because it's much easier to regulate)

Or: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256802356969648.html (the one with hidden regulator)

You can distinguish the VS from the VR based on the position of the regulator.

VR:

VS:

[Tommy Sky 15]

20 hours ago, GenTLe said:

I think that nowadays for Rolex is probably better (for sure in case of the GMT) to go for the VS/VR movement (the rolex clones).

But in case of a non GMT (see Oyster perpetual, Sub,ariner, Milgauss, datejust and so on) I still prefer the ETA clones (consider that I service them myself, both the Rolex and the Eta clones, as like as Miyota or other movements), mainly because they are workhorses, they are proven good, they beat at the same rate (28800BPH) of the Rolex ones (so you can't be caught like for those cheap fakes with 28$ movements inside that beat at 21600BPH) and you can find single parts for them from CousinsUK or other supplierts (the gen ETA spare parts will fit on them). Other the fact that they are cheaper and the whole movements are also cheaper.

See for instance the 2824: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000127839505.html

And the 2836: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003222536340.html

Versus the latest Rolex clone (version used in the Sub/Seadweller...):  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804203274240.html (this is the version with visible regulator, which I prefer because it's much easier to regulate)

Or: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256802356969648.html (the one with hidden regulator)

You can distinguish the VS from the VR based on the position of the regulator.

VR:

VS:

lu

This is so much information to go through... I didn't even think that these movements are available @Aliexpress. Pretty neat.

Well, my VS3235 Sub should be arriving at my door any day now, so no turning back now. I have contacted a local watchmaker and he will check the movement and clean/lube it if needed, so I hope I will enjoy the watch for many years.

 

I will keep this information in mind when ordering next reps - I want to get a Pepsi, a Batgirl, a NoTimeToDie Seamaster... The rabit hole gets deeper and deeper.

Will see how it goes, but for sure I will use info provided by you, good sir!

Thanx a million and have a great day!