p-lund 0 Posted September 1, 2009 hi ! i wonder about two movements. if i have the choice of two watches at the same price and one of them has the ETA 2836-clone, and the other has a asian 21600VPH, wich one is the best choice ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luthier 1 Posted September 1, 2009 hi ! i wonder about two movements. if i have the choice of two watches at the same price and one of them has the ETA 2836-clone, and the other has a asian 21600VPH, wich one is the best choice ? ETA clones usually has 28800 bph, and 21J has 21600 bph. Visually it's hard to detect difference in beats, both movements are great, but 21J is more reliable and way much cheaper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 41 Posted September 1, 2009 hi ! i wonder about two movements. if i have the choice of two watches at the same price and one of them has the ETA 2836-clone, and the other has a asian 21600VPH, wich one is the best choice ? This is a no brainer. Same price? The ETA clone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
houndoggie 58 Posted September 1, 2009 hi ! i wonder about two movements. if i have the choice of two watches at the same price and one of them has the ETA 2836-clone, and the other has a asian 21600VPH, wich one is the best choice ? ETA clones usually has 28800 bph, and 21J has 21600 bph. Visually it's hard to detect difference in beats, both movements are great, but 21J is more reliable and way much cheaper. Well, maybe... I can easily detect the difference in beat (on a large second hand) and sometimes the 21j is dodgy as well. Same price? Go for the Clone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 41 Posted September 1, 2009 hi ! i wonder about two movements. if i have the choice of two watches at the same price and one of them has the ETA 2836-clone, and the other has a asian 21600VPH, wich one is the best choice ? ETA clones usually has 28800 bph, and 21J has 21600 bph. Visually it's hard to detect difference in beats, both movements are great, but 21J is more reliable and way much cheaper. Well, maybe... I can easily detect the difference in beat (on a large second hand) and sometimes the 21j is dodgy as well. Same price? Go for the Clone. I can too. And in addition, the 21j lacks a component that smooths out the sweep (there is a name for it, can't remember). The 21j is not only slower beat, but the hand is often jerkier, you will see hesitation, and it can be really annoying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
houndoggie 58 Posted September 1, 2009 hi ! i wonder about two movements. if i have the choice of two watches at the same price and one of them has the ETA 2836-clone, and the other has a asian 21600VPH, wich one is the best choice ? ETA clones usually has 28800 bph, and 21J has 21600 bph. Visually it's hard to detect difference in beats, both movements are great, but 21J is more reliable and way much cheaper. Well, maybe... I can easily detect the difference in beat (on a large second hand) and sometimes the 21j is dodgy as well. Same price? Go for the Clone. I can too. And in addition, the 21j lacks a component that smooths out the sweep (there is a name for it, can't remember). The 21j is not only slower beat, but the hand is often jerkier, you will see hesitation, and it can be really annoying. John, that component is called "Class".. LOL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luthier 1 Posted September 1, 2009 Guys, you're talking about 21j made years ago. I have few reps with 2008-2009 21j, and it's great movements, compare to my old ones. Greg, where are you??? Say your weighty word for 21j! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg_r 81 Posted September 2, 2009 lol - the thing of it is, there ain't no such animal as a 21J - that epithet covers a wide range of movements, some better than others. The so-called 'Asian ETA' movements are pretty much as good as the real thing, offering high beat at 28,800vph. Some of the cheapie 21J-powered watches will be low-beat (21,600), but should still be reliable (I have several of them, and they all run very well). Frankly, if I'm being offered a gen ETA for the same price as a 21J I'd run a mile because somebody ain't telling the truth - the watch with the ETA should be AT LEAST $70-$100 more expensive. So either the 'ETA' is nothing of the kind, or the 21J is seriously overpriced. What are the watches you're looking at - and, more importantly, where are you looking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted September 2, 2009 I have no probs with the 21J. I think it's a great MVT. The 21J is indestructable. Ask Fakemaster, some of his have survived a hell of a lot inc a year in Afganistan on active service. Where can you get a ETA clone for the same price as a 21J mate? If it were a beater that was going to take a crap load of heave work I'd go the 21j but if the price was the same I would go the clone in a watch for ocaisional wear. Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luthier 1 Posted September 2, 2009 I have no probs with the 21J. I think it's a great MVT. The 21J is indestructable. Ask Fakemaster, some of his have survived a hell of a lot inc a year in Afganistan on active service. Where can you get a ETA clone for the same price as a 21J mate? If it were a beater that was going to take a crap load of heave work I'd go the 21j but if the price was the same I would go the clone in a watch for ocaisional wear. Col. Price of 21j from Shanghai factory (the best 2813) is $7, the price of clone ETA is $64, the price of real ETA is $112 in China. Go figure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Member X 91 Posted September 2, 2009 $7?! That is insane. I know it's economies of scale, relative value of currency and market pay conditions that affect how little, sorry, much you can pay your workers, but $7 to make a movement... I don't feel so bad about paying so little for my Parnis/ebay stuff now, they're probably still making a profit even at that price! lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted September 2, 2009 Funny, while the A21J price is low I can source both clones and gen ETA's cheaper than that here in OZ. What are they paying for a A7750 mate? Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG 41 Posted September 2, 2009 lol - the thing of it is, there ain't no such animal as a 21J - that epithet covers a wide range of movements, some better than others. The so-called 'Asian ETA' movements are pretty much as good as the real thing, offering high beat at 28,800vph. Some of the cheapie 21J-powered watches will be low-beat (21,600), but should still be reliable (I have several of them, and they all run very well). Yes, but on RG or RWG.cc I read once about a feature that the ETA's have (and the ETA clones) that smooths out jerkiness you see in the "21j's" - that is, the cheapy Chinese automatics. I will post at RG asking about it, I can't remember the name of the thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Getat 0 Posted September 2, 2009 The movement is produced by which factory? It causes a big different price and quality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted September 2, 2009 Funny thing is they actualy have 23 jewels Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
p-lund 0 Posted September 2, 2009 I have no probs with the 21J. I think it's a great MVT. The 21J is indestructable. Ask Fakemaster, some of his have survived a hell of a lot inc a year in Afganistan on active service. Where can you get a ETA clone for the same price as a 21J mate? If it were a beater that was going to take a crap load of heave work I'd go the 21j but if the price was the same I would go the clone in a watch for ocaisional wear. Col. hi trailboss !what i meant was many sites offers identical watches with let´s say two different movements. for example one with ETA-clone, and the other with asian auto 21J. in that case i wonder about the detailwork is it mostly Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
houndoggie 58 Posted September 2, 2009 I have no probs with the 21J. I think it's a great MVT. The 21J is indestructable. Ask Fakemaster, some of his have survived a hell of a lot inc a year in Afganistan on active service. Where can you get a ETA clone for the same price as a 21J mate? If it were a beater that was going to take a crap load of heave work I'd go the 21j but if the price was the same I would go the clone in a watch for ocaisional wear. Col. hi trailboss !what i meant was many sites offers identical watches with let´s say two different movements. for example one with ETA-clone, and the other with asian auto 21J. in that case i wonder about the detailwork is it mostly Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement. The answer is maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted September 2, 2009 As HD said, it depends. Some indeed do. T4D for example has some of the top shelf reps with the 21J in place of the clone at a fair saving. Mary (watchinternational) is also worth asking as she can usualy source that sort of thing or have one made up for you. If an advertised 21J model does have the same case as the clone/ETA one it will usualy be mentioned in the speil as it is a selling point. Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Member X 91 Posted September 2, 2009 I guess that is the case with the recent Milgauss that has been priced at $99 for the 21J - I'd be tempted to stretch to the hi beat ETA clone version if I was doing the PWC wholesale buy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trailboss99 994 Posted September 2, 2009 I guess that is the case with the recent Milgauss that has been priced at $99 for the 21J - Yes Col. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
