same detailaccuracy ?

[p-lund 0]

i ordered my first rep(rolex tt sub), and with shipping, the cost ran away up to 360$ wich for me is a little expensive, cause i lost my job a couple of months ago, so i have to go easy with the money. however, that doesn´t stop me from collecting, but maybe i must go down to a lower level. that brings up a question: let´s say i stay at the 150$-level and find two watches who looks identical, but one has a asian auto 21J, and the other has a ETA or a valjou 7750, which means the price will be almost twice as high. can i be sure that those two watches has the same attention to detail (same case, strap, saphireglass)exept the movement? in that case everything is just fine with me, cause if that asian movement does its job well, and the detailaccuracy is the same i dont wanna pay twice as much because of the movement. would be interesting to hear your oppinion about this.

[houndoggie 58]

i ordered my first rep(rolex tt sub), and with shipping, the cost ran away up to 360$ wich for me is a little expensive, cause i lost my job a couple of months ago, so i have to go easy with the money. however, that doesn´t stop me from collecting, but maybe i must go down to a lower level. that brings up a question: let´s say i stay at the 150$-level and find two watches who looks identical, but one has a asian auto 21J, and the other has a ETA or a valjou 7750, which means the price will be almost twice as high. can i be sure that those two watches has the same attention to detail (same case, strap, saphireglass)exept the movement? in that case everything is just fine with me, cause if that asian movement does its job well, and the detailaccuracy is the same i dont wanna pay twice as much because of the movement. would be interesting to hear your oppinion about this.

 

 

 

Yes and no.

 

Some cheap reps are fantastic and some expensive reps are shit (or overpriced)

 

One of the nices reps I have I just received from Robert is the Cartier Santos XL chrono for less than $60 (via his whole sale deal)... it is a quartz movement, but oh well it looks nicer than the 7750 version:

 

 

 

Some cheaper reps come with the "same case as swiss version" moniker and are usually a good bet, though you will be hard pressed to find sapphire crystals at this price point.

[Luthier 1]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

[houndoggie 58]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

 

 

The DSSD is a good example of this, though sapphire crystals aren't used in the cheaper movements.

[trailboss99 994]

Guys, you are missing the point here. There is a difference between a 21J and a 7750 that goes beond quality. A 7750 is a chronograph movement, it has the necessory gears to power the stopwatch MVT in a chrono watch, a 21J does not. If the watch you refer to is a chrono watch (therefor with a stopwatch function) the 21J will not have this function working. It will have faux (false) chronos ie: the stop watch sub dials will not function as a stopwatch but just click over the day and date when the SW pushers are pushed. In this case instead of having hours and minute markers on them they will have Jan, Feb, Mar etc and the other will have #1 to 7 on it. The third will prob be a faux 24hr time dial. A faux chrono watch looks nothing like a real one on close examination because of the subdials and the fact that the running seconds (the "normal" time secs) are on the primary sec hand (the big one on the main dial) and not the sub dial at either 6 or 9. A faux chrono watch should cost no more than 90 bucks or so and (IMHO) should be advoided like the plague. If money is tight stick to watches that do not have a chrono function or get a quartz one instead.

 

The exception to this rule are the IWC and Panerai reps that use the A7750 MVT to power their sec@9 (seconds at nine) or sec@12 subdials without a stopwatch function. It is possible to get a 21J MVT that also does this.

 

 

 

Col.

[greg_r 81]

+1 What Col said.

[Member X 91]

This place is a mine of information, thank you for imparting it to us noobs!

[trailboss99 994]

X: if any of that comes as a surprise to you either you need to do some more searching/reading or I need to take the time to write some more tech pieces

 

 

Col.

[Member X 91]

I think it's all stuff that I have stored somewhere in my head after what must be 6 months of reading all the forums now, but it's always good to be reminded

 

I think one of the biggest questions will be what will happen when ETA stop selling outside of the big brands - we already have clone movements but will they get better in quality due to customer demand, or will they get worse in quality due to having a 'captive audience' who can't shop elsewhere? I hope it's the former but I wouldn't bet money against the latter happening... <_< which would be a shame.

 

The 21J movements really do seem excellent value. They seem to be slightly hit and miss on quality (I want to get the one in my BP serviced, for example, so it actually runs smoothly, doesn't hesitate at points round the dial, and actually stays within 5 minutes of the actual time by the end of the day lol) but at the price, even if they're DOA it's not a fortune to get a new one

[trailboss99 994]

The clone is allready a great MVT, reliable and tough. Most if not all parts are interchangable with the ETA gen. The only difference compared to the 21J is that the 21J is a simpler MVT and therefore naturaly a hardier MVT.

 

I have still not seen anywhere that ETA are on the verge of stoping supply of the MVT to outside suppliers in the short/medium term. What they are stoping is supply of ebauches. We have no need for these so it is hardly a bother. If anything this may affect supply of the clone which in quite a few cases may use the gen ebauch.

 

 

Col.

[Member X 91]

BK has posted on RWG2 that he needs money now for ETAs for the SDs he's building/QCing from WM9 (for which I have already paid in full) as they are stopping supply early, in October?

 

I'm confused lol

[trailboss99 994]

Me too. I was under the impression that a cort order was garenteing supply for a few more months yet. Have to do some research but as yet I have no evidence to back that fact (none after Oct) up.

 

 

Col.

[Member X 91]

Ok, cool.

 

I'm still a tad worried about the BK thing - good bloke and I have no real reason to doubt, but he and George are sitting on a lot of tempting money... lol

[JohnG 41]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

 

 

The DSSD is a good example of this, though sapphire crystals aren't used in the cheaper movements.

 

Yup, no sapphire on the cheaper versions.

 

Also, if you want inexpensive but very good quality you should think of going homage. Homages are far better than mere replicas.

[houndoggie 58]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

 

 

The DSSD is a good example of this, though sapphire crystals aren't used in the cheaper movements.

 

Yup, no sapphire on the cheaper versions.

 

Also, if you want inexpensive but very good quality you should think of going homage. Homages are far better than mere replicas.

 

 

If you want cheap and good, the Zitc Oris homage is awesome, same case as the 7750 versions (of the reps).

[RolexAddict 1]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

 

 

 

For me, I could be vrong, I have seen :

ETA movements,

Asian 28.800bph (Josh's Beginmariner in 2007-2008 had this movement)

and the famous Asian 21J who has a jerky seconds hand sweeping

 

I resume :

 

1) the ETA movement, 2836... 2824, or what else xyz... etc. etc.

 

2) the Asian "no-name" 28.800 cycles" who powered Perfect Clone's cheap subs the past 2 years, -this mov. is no more available-

 

3) the classic 21J with the jerky sec. sweeping

 

What you exactly call a Asian Clone ETA ?

[AllergyDoc 40]

Jackie Chen sold me a DSSD with an "Asia ETA 2836-2". About $100 less than the "Swiss" ETA. It's lost a whole second this week.

[KBH 7]

For me, I could be vrong, I have seen :

ETA movements,

Asian 28.800bph (Josh's Beginmariner in 2007-2008 had this movement)

and the famous Asian 21J who has a jerky seconds hand sweeping

 

I think this is one of those little "little white lies" that we've all heard about. I have a Beginmariner from Josh that I swapped the movement out for the 4813 hi beat. It was definitely the standard 2813 in it originally.

 

I have yet to see an actual 2813 high beat movement, yet I keep hearing about it.

[RolexAddict 1]

thats I wanted to hear Doc,

 

it means, Swiss, Asian, Belouchistan or even made in Peru, the ETA 2836-1 and 2 and all others 2824 are just ETA, and very good movements. Just beware of scammers on -sale/trade- index boards who tell you is Swiss to sell their Belouchistan shit watch more expensively

 

I think this is one of those little "little white lies" that we've all heard about. I have a Beginmariner from Josh that I swapped the movement out for the 4813 hi beat. It was definitely the standard 2813 in it originally.

 

I have yet to see an actual 2813 high beat movement, yet I keep hearing about it.

 

just a precision,

I said I swapped the regular Asian for a ETA 2836 in my LV beginmariner , this was not so easy, but I got it, if I have time I will write something about this

Edited September 4, 2009 by RolexAddict

[p-lund 0]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

 

 

 

For me, I could be vrong, I have seen :

ETA movements,

Asian 28.800bph (Josh's Beginmariner in 2007-2008 had this movement)

and the famous Asian 21J who has a jerky seconds hand sweeping

 

I resume :

 

1) the ETA movement, 2836... 2824, or what else xyz... etc. etc.

 

2) the Asian "no-name" 28.800 cycles" who powered Perfect Clone's cheap subs the past 2 years, -this mov. is no more available-

 

3) the classic 21J with the jerky sec. sweeping

 

What you exactly call a Asian Clone ETA ?

ACETA ? :.)

[Luthier 1]

Take Rolex Deep Sea Dweller for example. With swiss ETA price is $368, with Asian clone Eta - about $250, and with Asian 21J - $168.

Same case, same dial, same bracelet, same everything, except movement.

Not all replicas are like this, but many. Ask dealers a questions.

 

 

The DSSD is a good example of this, though sapphire crystals aren't used in the cheaper movements.

 

Yup, no sapphire on the cheaper versions.

 

Also, if you want inexpensive but very good quality you should think of going homage. Homages are far better than mere replicas.

 

Oh, reallyyy... how 'bout zis from Josh?

 

00000RLSD10016 Deep Sea Dweller SS Black Asian 2813 Best

[RLSD10016] $128.00

 

The Best Deep Sea ...Finally its here. Made with a Genuine watch as Sample...

 

Model : SS Case, Black Dial, White Dot Markers on SS Oyster Brushed Bracelet with New Design Divers Extension, Black Bezel Unidirectional, Engraved Rehaut M Serials, Full Ceramic Bezel With sandwich numeral insert.. Unidirectional rotating Bezel.. Blue Lume on hour markers and needles.

Movement: Asian 2813-2 Automatic Movement, 21J

Functions: Hours, Minutes, Seconds, Date ( Set via Crown)

Dimensions : Dia 43mm x 17.5mm

Material : 1 piece forged case construction, solid 316 stainless steel

Back : Solid case back with Titanium Seal, Single piece Caseback

Crown : One-piece screw down crown with o ring with thick crown tube ( same size as genuine)

Crystal: Dome Synthetic Sapphire

Crystal: Dome Synthetic Sapphire

Crystal: Dome Synthetic Sapphire