A Close Inspection to the new IWC Portuguese Movement

[onzenuub 331]

Some dealers stopped selling Rolex Daytona and IWC Portuguese due to the reliability problems of their movements. Recently they are selling the watch again advertising a “new improved 29 jewels†movement. The Asian 7750 movement has its natural seconds output at position 9. However, these watches have the output at position 6. Therefore, a modification is employed, and it is know that this mod is very problematic and many buyers have finished with a brick instead of a watch.

 

The new Daytona movement was analyzed here:

 

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=47094

 

The improvements in the new Daytona movement are very marginal and the movement is still problematic. What about the Portuguese? Follow reading and you will have the answer.

 

The member Silverspeed sent me his watch just alter receiving it from Joshua (Perfectclones). This can be proved it. A picture of his Portuguese:

 

 

Here follows the information showed at Perfectclones’s web page:

 

 

am going to open the watch and to compare the movement against a Portuguese that I applied the graphite mod the 15th Feb 2008, one year ago. This watch was the used to write the tuto about graphite cure:

http://www.replica-watch-guide.net/forum/i...?showtopic=3154

I have tried to take very similar pictures to compare clearly both movements.

 

First step in a Portuguese rep is to remove the bezel to extract the movement. In this version is not difficult because the bezel is screwed (there is another version). Next picture shows the bezel removed.

 

 

Next step is to remove hands and dial. Following picture shows what you can see then. In all the pictures “old†is the Portuguese that I opened one year ago, and “new†is Silverspeed’s watch.

 

 

As seen in previous picture, the first impression is that both movements are equal, as both are employing pins to fasten the visible gear against the plate. This gear is rotating / slipping on the surface of the plate. There are no jewels and a lot of friction is produced, generating the well known reliability problems.

 

Next step is to unscrew three small screws and the first plate is removed. Next picture shows the upper side of the plate. On the “old†Portuguese the red circle shows that the tube hand is still attached on the output seconds pin. When I removed the seconds hand one year ago the tube of the hand remained there. This is a problem due to bad quality hands. The circle also shows that there is a jewel there. Therefore, this modification adds one jewel more to the A7750 movement.

 

 

Previous picture shows that there are no differences. Next picture shows the bottom side of the plate.

 

 

Due to the tube hand problem I could not remove the seconds gear in the “old†Portuguese. Red arrow shows the unique difference you can find in both movements. There is a circle surface that has been hollowed out. This is the improvement… This permits extra space for a gear that is under this surface. No more improvements… no more differences…

 

Next picture shows what you can see when this plate that we have just analyzed is removed:

 

 

Red circle shows the natural seconds output at position 9 in the A7750 movement. Green circle shows the new seconds output and the green lines shows the pathway of the seconds thorough the added gears, from 9 to 6.

 

A picture follows to show that there is no difference. This picture is taken after removing the second plate, that is the plate showed on the picture. Unfortunately, there is no a jewels in the seconds output, just a hole.

 

 

The central gear has been removed in the next picture. This gear also slips over the surface of the plate without any jewels or system to reduce friction. Remember that the only improvement is the hollowed area over this gear.

 

 

In addition, the picture shows that again there are no new jewels on this plate. Now the other side of the plate is analyzed:

 

 

Again, it is exactly the same, no differences, no more jewels.

 

Ok, we have just finished analysing the modification. After removing the second plate the A7750 is visible and, of course, is the same movement for both watches

 

 

Last comment, Daytona is sold under the same advertising, “new improved 29jâ€, as it is shown by this picture:

 

 

However, as we have seen, the Portuguese modification only has one additional jewel. If you read the previous analysis of the Daytona movement, you will find that Daytona mod has 4 added jewels. Therefore, Portuguese and Daytona as sold as 29j movements and the only true is that: number of jewels on Daytona = number of jewels on Portuguese + 3.

 

 

SUMMARY- The new movement is not new. It is 99% equal to previous one.

- The only difference is a hollowed area that does not solve the reliability problems.

- Both movements (Daytona and Portuguese) are sold as 29j. However, Daytona has 3 more jewels.

- The movement is still very problematic.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Francisco.

[Sunshine 0]

Excellent, but EXCELLENT work.

 

It's so good to have people as meticulous in the forum!

 

I am so infatuated with the Portuguese, I would like to know how problematic it is.

For example, if I don't use the chronograph, and I don't do anything weird ... What is the lifespan of a movement like these?

 

Thanks for your help!

[Member X 91]

It's hard to tell - it might be 6 months, it might be a year, it might be two years...

 

If you want one then you have to be prepared for it to die at some point!

[Mystery Shopper 5,892]

Great report. Looks like there is still much to be solved.

[Sunshine 0]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the info!

 

I have found this one, is the Portuguese Automatic, not the Chronograph, it's this movement OK?

http://www.silix-prime.com/iwcs045-p-1465.html

 

Thanks !

[Member X 91]

That is a '21j' movement (21j being a term for a generic chinese movement), but I have never heard of any major issues with this version so I think it should be fine

 

The only issue to watch with that particular one is that it is gold plated, and therefore might wear off over time!

[Sunshine 0]

That is a '21j' movement (21j being a term for a generic chinese movement), but I have never heard of any major issues with this version so I think it should be fine :P

 

The only issue to watch with that particular one is that it is gold plated, and therefore might wear off over time!

 

Thanks Member X!

 

Well... I hope that by the time it wear off, there is a good versión of the Chronograph and I can make the change! Hahaha

 

Thanks again for your help

[Member X 91]

If you want one that works like the gen in the pictures in the original post, you can contact Concepta. He makes reps from either some or all gen parts, and can get gen movements :P

 

They are $1000+ though!

[Luthier 1]

That is a '21j' movement (21j being a term for a generic chinese movement), but I have never heard of any major issues with this version so I think it should be fine :P

 

The only issue to watch with that particular one is that it is gold plated, and therefore might wear off over time!

 

Well... it's, actually, 25J Seagull movement with working power reserve, same mov't they use on IWC Big Pilot... I think.

Very reliable movement, but 21,600 bph. Gen. BP has the same beat rate.

[Distinct 0]

Fantastic work. Thank you.

[flottiglia 0]

Great post..

 

That extra train is a bit of a disaster,suprised they run at all with all that extra friction.

[Member X 91]

That is a '21j' movement (21j being a term for a generic chinese movement), but I have never heard of any major issues with this version so I think it should be fine

 

The only issue to watch with that particular one is that it is gold plated, and therefore might wear off over time!

 

Well... it's, actually, 25J Seagull movement with working power reserve, same mov't they use on IWC Big Pilot... I think.

Very reliable movement, but 21,600 bph. Gen. BP has the same beat rate.

:P

I bow to your knowledge and powers of recall - I couldn't remember the exact details but I knew it wasn't an ETA! lol

[Caliper 0]

real shame, I like the clean classic dial look of the portuguese.

[marcellen 0]

Hi Francisco, thanks for the really good article.

I'm no expert, but I love that IWC so much that I asked a trusted watch shop to replace my replica 7750 with an original one, to solve some issues (I bought the watch from Silix, I started to have issues after 2 days..).

 

Now the problem: he is not able to dismount the front glass, he tried with all professional tools but it won't come out. He didn't encounter this issue on original watches, this is the first replica he dismounts, he doesn't want to destroy the watch. Can it be that the front glass was glued? Can the glass be potentially broken when pulling out too strong?

What is the solution to dismount correctly the front glass?

 

Thanks for a help!

[<RJ> 0]

I beleive he have been absent for years now. Maybe someone else can answer it though.

[marcellen 0]

I hope too !

[ag69 0]

Great report. Looks like there is still much to be solved.

+1

 

Great write up, thanks!!

[yawn 122]

Very through review! Bravo! Again, Franken seems to be the only solution now :/

[JSJ 0]

 

 

Hi Francisco, thanks for the really good article.

I'm no expert, but I love that IWC so much that I asked a trusted watch shop to replace my replica 7750 with an original one, to solve some issues (I bought the watch from Silix, I started to have issues after 2 days..).

 

Now the problem: he is not able to dismount the front glass, he tried with all professional tools but it won't come out. He didn't encounter this issue on original watches, this is the first replica he dismounts, he doesn't want to destroy the watch. Can it be that the front glass was glued? Can the glass be potentially broken when pulling out too strong?

What is the solution to dismount correctly the front glass?

 

Thanks for a help!

 

The crystal ('glass') is removed by first removing the bezel from the front of the watch. Most of them are a tight push fit but older watches have the bezel retained by four screws accessible from inside the watch.

 

Once the bezel is off its fairly easy to pop the crystal with a standard crystal press although it's not necessary to do that for access to the movement..

 

If your trusted watch shop can't remove the bezel I'd be concerned about their ability to replace the movement with an 'original' 7750. It's not a standard movement in the 3714. And the hands won't fit.