Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
LHOOQ

J&W 6263: That Big Red Freshness

Recommended Posts

LHOOQ

“Conan, why do you build Daytona frankens with Valjoux 72 movements?”

“To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women. But mostly so you can use a genuine dial.”

 

i-vVq9Kn6-X3.jpg

 

I’m loath to call any watch a "Grail". One of my pet peeves is how the term gets thrown around to describe any flavor of the month or passing fancy. A Grail, per the late Chuck Maddox, is supposed to be the goal at the end of a quest both long and difficult. In Chuck's case, it was a Speedmaster Automatic with a Lemania 5100. In my universe of reps and frankens, I think this build qualifies (at least, until I can figure out how to assemble a CK2915 Speedy out of spare parts). So here, then, is my Grail Daytona.

 

i-48NJqZj-X3.jpg

 

I still don't like the way that sounds.

 

I've had my share of vintage Daytona reps over the years, but my first love was the 6263 with the standard silver dial, featuring "Daytona" in red script. It was only in 2009 that I learned you could build a really good vintage Daytona for a small amount of money. But towering above me were the guys who paid the big bucks for frankens with Valjoux 72 movements. I remember seeing the early DW builds, which had beautifully detailed "Big Red" dials--probably the best that that DW ever produced. The panda 6263 was the configuration I chose when I placed my first order with DW in 2009. Unfortunately, the dial I got was a bit on the crap side, and it was replaced after a few months by a Daytona-less ROC.

 

i-ng2BXrc-X3.jpg

 

That first 6263 was joined by a DW 6239/7750 the following year. Then in 2011, I finally joined the V72 club with my FAP 6239. But it was always my plan to return to the 6263--with a vengeance! As nice as DW's old "Big Red" was, I resolved to snag a genuine dial if one showed up at a reasonable price.

 

I'm not sure what was the exact catalyst for this build. It may have been the 571 endlinks that I got for a great price at the start of the year. (I'm serious: A pair of endlinks might have started this.) I also had a couple of 6263/V72 cases from DW's "Retirement Sale"--right before my dealings with him turned sour. Then in February, I started talking to a friend about possible movements for his 6263 build, and I think that's when I seriously thought about getting on with my own project. I braced my wallet for future financial shocks, and begin my search for a movement.

 

 

Movement

My first candidate was a Valjoux 72 from a Gallet. As it turned out, I couldn't bring myself to tear apart such a handsome watch, so its movement stayed where it was. Good thing I had spotted a Valjoux 726 less than 24 hours after winning the Gallet. Better still, the 726 was inside a frankly hideous Jules Jurgensen from the late 1970s. The Valjoux 726, for those that don't know, is one of the final evolutions of the Valjoux 72: 21600bph instead of the older movement's 18000bph, and it served as the base movement for the Rolex 727. Perfect for a 6263.

 

i-3KpSVsD-X3.jpg

 

Those are brown subdials in a gold dial, ringed with a huge fluted bezel that made the watch look like a metal sunflower. (Gut it! Gut it!) Here's the relocated V726. On the right, note the phony service marks, courtesy of Phong:

 

i-Xd2Grtd-X3.jpg

 

Big thanks to alligoat for helping me secure this donor watch on short notice.

 

 

Case

The original plan was to start with a final-generation DW 6263 case, and have it extensively modified. However, valty's case comparison weighed heavily on my mind--particularly the thinness of the Jewelry & Watch (i.e. "Phong") case versus the DW. The thick midsection was something I noticed when I had placed my old DW 6263 next to a genuine. Was the improvement over DW worth the 400-500% increase in price? Honestly, no, but rationality doesn't figure into most of this build.

 

i-fjH56K3-X3.jpg

 

This was the first time I had ordered anything from Phong, so I should note that he was very easy to deal with. He also gave me a choice: Did I want an unblemished, new-look 6263 case, or one that had undergone the "vintage" treatment? I didn't know precisely what he meant by that so I asked for pictures. He sent me a series of comparison shots, and I was intrigued. I went for vintage.

 

On the left is "vintage" Phong; on the right is a never-used DW 6263 case. Note the reflections. Not only were the sharp edges dulled, but the polished surfaces of the steel had taken on a cloudy sheen. It wasn't a satin finish; you could still see your own reflection, albeit through a soft-focus lens. The metal didn't appear to be scuffed-up, but looked naturally worn:

 

i-mb6GXb2-X3.jpg

 

Now let's take a closer look at the surface of the "vintage" case:

 

i-n3BStx4-X3.jpg

 

Interesting… Is it an effect caused by chemicals, or several layers of of scuff/polish?

 

It's a very nice case, though not quite a spitting image of the gen. As on the DW, it would be nice if the crown protruded less, and was more tightly tucked beneath the bezel lip. It would be nice if the upper portion of the pusher cutouts intersected with the upper edge of the lugs. And it would also be nice if the lugholes were positioned more accurately, eliminating the need to modify the 571 endlinks for a proper fit. I'm also sure that the shape of the genuine lugs is composed of more compound curves. However, all of these would only be noticed in a direct side-by-side, and maybe only in macro shots. Move your eyes back a few inches and this Phong case is very convincing.

 

i-D8XfMD3-X3.jpg

i-Wg7h8jk-X3.jpg

 

Note the serial number. Not only is this a faux-birth-year watch for me, but the last six digits make it a birthday watch, too. I stole that idea from ubiquitous!

 

 

Dial & Hands

This was the big one. I had managed to find an old DW dial for the Valjoux 72 from another member. It looked terrific--far better than any DW dial I'd previously owned, but I only ever planned to use it in a worst-case scenario. Soon after, I was able to find a genuine service dial (stamped "Singer") from a seller in Italy. It was a huge relief when I finally opened that small, plastic box containing the dial. That was three weeks ago.

 

i-ZNWQmKW-X3.jpg

 

It's a beautiful dial, and it's great not having to worry about how well or how poorly the smallest detail has been replicated. I can spot a bit of wear on the areas immediately surrounding the subdials, but otherwise the condition is excellent. Everything is wonderfully crisp, and the base color takes on a coppery hue when viewed under certain lights and at acute angles.

 

i-P2JWk9Z-X3.jpg

 

Unfortunately, I missed out on a genuine handset. Instead, I used DW hands for everything except the chronograph sweep, which came from Phong.

 

i-3p6zv2T-X3.jpg

 

 

Bezel

I was recently able to compare three acrylic bezels, which came from DW, Phong, and a seller in New York. I thought the New York bezel was the best of the bunch, and close enough in appearance to a genuine hoop. Gen bezel prices have exploded in the past year, and it's become difficult for me to justify the cost versus the marginal improvement in accuracy. And I didn't want to ruin the overall look of this watch by buying a cheaper-but-damaged bezel.

 

Incidentally, the crystal is a genuine Tropic 21.

 

i-ptR88bL-X3.jpg

 

 

Crown & Pushers

I briefly considered genuine Mk 1 pushers and reconfiguring the watch as an early-70s 6263, but decided to minimize costs and headches. Besides, I can’t tell the difference between Ofrei pushers and the later gen units, so I ordered from Otto. The crown is an early 703 with the tall coronet. It came to me courtesy of a friend from the vorums, vlydog.

 

i-Qbh8jwH-X3.jpgi-8CG4kkL-X3.jpg

 

On the right photo, note the shallow cutouts for the pushers. This is another flaw of the Phong case, as the gen has more pronounced indentations. DW replicated those details more accurately.

 

 

Bracelet & Endlinks

As I mentioned above, I was able to snag a pair of 571s for a great price. Unfortunately, it took a lot of trimming and reshaping by my watchsmith to get them to fit the Phong case properly. They were so changed, in fact, that I wondered whether I should have used and modified the 557s that came with the bracelet, and sold the 571s for a quick gain on VRM. Well, what’s done is done, and at least I get to see those '571' stampings from behind.

 

i-wmXkpGS-X3.jpg

 

wiesn089 helped me find and verify a genuine 78350 that was legitimate, in good condition, and priced well. If you haven’t read it yet, his comparison of a gen bracelet versus aftermarket 78350s is an invaluable resource. The springbars are from Ofrei.

 

i-LdskTzK-X3.jpg

 

Alternatively, I still love a Daytona on Tropic rubber:

 

i-kCdbmCJ-X3.jpg

 

I’m still not sure about calling this 6263 a Grail. I’ve had longer projects (like my Omega Seamaster 300 and Tudor 7032 V2), and this build went more smoothly and swiftly than others. But this is definitely the most expensive frankensteiner I’ve ever put together, and I have wanted a Big Red since 2009. So… Grail. Sure.

 

But don’t mistake my indifference to the term with my feelings toward Big Red. I absolutely love it.

i-5GXxS49-X3.jpg

 

So kiss a little longer, stay close a little longer

Hold tight a little longer, longer with Big Red!

That Big Red freshness lasts right through it

Your fresh breath goes on and on, while you chew it!

Say goodbye a little longer, make it last a little longer

Give your breath long-lasting freshness, with Big Red!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fatarms

So awesome. Congrats and nice work on the post :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gB.

M, you never cease to amaze me. Every time I view one of your new threads about a build, I expect the same old same old, but each time you raise the bar significantly. Truly outstanding work mate.

 

Kudos horological master M.

 

:clap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baxter

wow just wow .... love the write up, a really great read.

I usually read specialist articles and find my mind wandering and my eyes glazing over but you managed to keep me interested to the end....... and the images :drool: Its a truly beautiful thing you have there and all the more so because of the process involved.

The only slight negative for me is that i've just bought the $235.00 version of this watch from WI which i adore but you may have just fucked it up for me :D

 

Bravo :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greg_r

Possibly the best franken 6263 I've yet seen - certainly the best write-up!

 

Absolutely beautiful watch, my friend - I'm envious :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
James.
:thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corv99

nice work my friend

 

these are really beautiful watches no doubt, best rolex..... personal preference I'mnot a rolex fan at all, but Daytonas are works of art.......

only wish they were 44mm or so, I ended up selling mine :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arism

Gorgeous :drool::wub:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WebWind
:drool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
machiavegli
:notworthy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wiz

Fantastic watch, ans as usual great pics and write up to go with it. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amit

That is an amazing write up and pictures.....

 

As usual and always.

 

Very jealous am I.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
powderfreak

No words needed other than WOW :drool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ebzen02

Speechless!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeffw69

Very nice, wear it in good health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LHOOQ

Thanks, guys! I am, as the English say, chuffed as chips when I put it on my wrist!

 

Difficult, expensive build, but so worth it right now (before the bills arrive).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fragzzone

Great post, many thanks for sharing. I will stare at those photos for a looong time :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DeLaForce

Whaaaaaaaaa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kikinz

Can you advice where i can get these pushers and how much is the cost :) thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jose Betancur

wow, lovely!

congrats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LHOOQ

Can you advice where i can get these pushers and how much is the cost :) thank you

ofrei.com: Daytona white screw down push button. Each pusher sells for $49.

 

I should point out that I upgraded to genuine pushers recently. There are differences, but they're minor and are mostly to do with the sharpness of the edges and the depth of the grooves.

 

zxIMG_9474_cr-X3.jpg

 

That's the Ofrei pusher at the bottom.

Edited by LHOOQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnPilot

Fantastic work.

Such a beauty, would kill for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
parrott

How much did you spend on building this beauty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vitix
:drool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pseudonym

Just posting so I can find this later!!

 

Amazing build!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×