ALE7575 24 Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Kuvarsit PAM 417 - First impressions and opinions Hi friends Kuvarsit sample of PAM 147 arrived to my office some days ago but, I was on business trip I came back to my office yesterday from the trip, but I started, immediately, another one. But I had the great opportunity to see and examine the Kuvarsit New York Boutique Pam 417 during about one hour. I have not been able to make comparisons because I had no other watches in my office. But I got some first interesting impressions. BEAR IN MIND THAT THESE OPINIONS ARE FROM A FIRST “SUPERFICIAL“ REVIEW. WITHOUT OTHER MODELS OR VERSIONS TO COMPARE, EITHER GEN OR H MAKER / NOOB. THE PANERAI DESIGN This PAM 417 really is a nice watch. It is in the line of PAM 390 but less “warm” more manly and sporty but classy. I would doubt now what watch to choose between the 390 and the 417 (or other Boutiques SE). Lume colour is warm and smart and the dial with PIG logo and sausage lume looks very impressive. Many sandwich dial lovers could reconsider their preferences, like me, after seeing this nice dial. GENERAL LOOK I’m not talking now about accuracy just about look, appearance and feeling It is impressive. GEN-LIKE is the feeling. In a first view you have the sensation of a gen, no rep at all. I remember this feeling with the best HBB V1 and the current V6, forgiving the movement and the rep H screws. More gen-like IMO than PAM 029, 243 or 111. Please remember I’m not talking now about accuracy just about look, appearance and feeling The finish is awesome with a perfect polish and brushed CG. The fitting is almost perfect DIAL – HANDS CP The dial surface and colour are really nice, uniform and no paint-like. Markers and layout are almost perfect as we have already seen in a previous review. Lume colour and application seem accurate and with contours very well defined and clean. Well matched with hand lume. PIG logo- very similar in shape to H maker but better engraved and more detailed (the best in reps) Inscriptions LUMINOR MARINA PANERAI with nice colour, matched with lume, and perfectly raised like the best Noobs. CP is very correct and nice, but is better polished in a good Noob (but, as you know, Noob is uneven at this regard) I have not got yet info about the intensity of the lume CRYSTAL Following indications from Kuvarsit it is a gen crystal. It really has an awesome look but AR has a very little and faint purple tint. Kuvarsit says it is the same tint as gen. This crystal is raised with a perfect height and bevel. You can see that you are in front of a different crystal, this is IMO the first thing you notice seeing this watch. KW 417 Crystal is very clear and gives to dial a very impressive gen-like look. It seems you are seeing the dial through a clear lens but without magnification. Seeing the dial through this crystal, sometimes you have the feeling that the dial is a bit concave, that means more deep at the center and a bit raised at the contour. I have just had this feeling seeing some gen PAMs fitted with non domed crystals. IMO this crystal makes that other crystal reps seem a little “plastic”-like (exaggerating a little, of course). CASE - BEZEL – CG –CROWN – LEVER The polished surfaces of Case and bezel are almost perfect without flaws even inside lugs. Better finish IMO than in other reps. Edges are all very well defined The brushed surface of the CG and lever is completely gen-like and it is another eye-catching thing in KW 417. Lever and roller seem like gen in shape and it is COMPLETELY flush with the CG (perfect) The function of the lever is very smooth and reliable. Most likely because the lever hole is fitted with a rubber gasket like in other KW reps. Crown is “slim” like H maker and gen (better than Noob) Inner edges are square enough and way better than H maker, but inner finish and crisp square, mainly in back side, are clearly better in Noobs. CG Pin has well flattened and polished upper tip, a little recessed like gen, and has also nice lower tip. Anyway it seems a little more centered in CG than gen We have with KW 417 the best ensemble CG-Crown-Lever in replicas. WE MUST WAITING FOR COMPARISON PICS TO GET INFO ABOUT ACCURACY OF DIMENSIONS AND SHAPE. CASEBACK Very very nice caseback with deep and crisp engravings. I had liked to have a lens to see it, but the single eye look is awesome. Concerning custom Boutiques engraving in caseback (Statue of Liberty in 417), I really doubt that gen can be better, it is deep, crisp and very clean. Really beautiful. The general look of the caseback is impressive and very gen-like MOVEMENT I had no tools to remove caseback but KW has send to me the spec. and pics and it is the same movement installed by Noob factory. Therefore, no worries about that. But the same stories: short micrometric screw, bad Swan Neck spring shape and standard rep Incablock. STRAP and LUG SCREWS The strap is a beautiful ASSO with a little light colour that will become better and darker after some use. The finish is good and the stitching uniform and nice. Buckle with well engraved PANERAI and with a very good polished and look, really nice. Lug screws have well polished tips and the length is correct, but the notches are off the center in the four screws ************************************************************************************************* Waiting for comparison reviews, mainly with gen watch, to be made by Klockis and me and helped with the info and pics of JoehwfrcJ, we can see that we are in front of another type of rep in quality finish and detail, leaving aside the possible accuracy of shape and dimensions. We don’t know YET if this is the best REPLICA of PAM at this moment, but I can say that with this WATCH (I have voluntarily avoided the word replica) Kuvarsit has showed that they are able to make it. As said in another post in this thread: We can be seeing the starting of new options in the PAM replica manufacture scene. There are still many things to be defined: - Final review analyzing the samples - KW capacity of production - Supply capacity of gen items like the new Crystals - Maintenance of the quality in future productions - Final price with a possible increasing demand. - Etc... But at this moment all details are promissing. I repeat: BEAR IN MIND THAT THESE OPINIONS ARE IN A FIRST “SUPERFICIAL“ REVIEW. WITHOUT OTHER MODELS OR VERSIONS TO COMPARE EITHER GEN OR H MAKER / NOOB. I could be wrong with above mentioned opinions, and maybe I should have waited for the final review. But I have not been able to resist the temptation, because KW-417 doesn’t leave you indifferent. ALE Edited April 7, 2013 by ALE7575 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Focal 0 Posted April 7, 2013 How exciting! It was about time other makers started competing with the noob factory. Hopefully we will see better prices and better quality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheInthusiest 0 Posted April 7, 2013 Beautifully examined! Well done! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THXuk 0 Posted April 7, 2013 Great review. Can anyone confirm if they ever made a london boutique edition. I cant find any info on one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torobravo 9 Posted April 7, 2013 Thanks for the hard work Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machiavegli 6 Posted April 7, 2013 Wow. I love that capitalism and competition are coming to China Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solrac 0 Posted April 7, 2013 Kuvarsit PAM 417 - First impressions and opinions /snip Your reviews are making harder and harder for me to wait for mine. Once again, Thanks ALE! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tits McGee 7 Posted April 7, 2013 Great review. Can anyone confirm if they ever made a london boutique edition. I cant find any info on one. Yes....here you go: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=47503&hl=&fromsearch=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tits McGee 7 Posted April 7, 2013 Kuvarsit PAM 417 - First impressions and opinions Hi friends Kuvarsit sample of PAM 147 arrived to my office some days ago but, I was on business trip I came back to my office yesterday from the trip, but I started, immediately, another one. But I had the great opportunity to see and examine the Kuvarsit New York Boutique Pam 417 during about one hour. I have not been able to make comparisons because I had no other watches in my office. But I got some first interesting impressions. BEAR IN MIND THAT THESE OPINIONS ARE FROM A FIRST “SUPERFICIAL“ REVIEW. WITHOUT OTHER MODELS OR VERSIONS TO COMPARE, EITHER GEN OR H MAKER / NOOB. THE PANERAI DESIGN This PAM 417 really is a nice watch. It is in the line of PAM 390 but less “warm” more manly and sporty but classy. I would doubt now what watch to choose between the 390 and the 417 (or other Boutiques SE). Lume colour is warm and smart and the dial with PIG logo and sausage lume looks very impressive. Many sandwich dial lovers could reconsider their preferences, like me, after seeing this nice dial. GENERAL LOOK I’m not talking now about accuracy just about look, appearance and feeling It is impressive. GEN-LIKE is the feeling. In a first view you have the sensation of a gen, no rep at all. I remember this feeling with the best HBB V1 and the current V6, forgiving the movement and the rep H screws. More gen-like IMO than PAM 029, 243 or 111. Please remember I’m not talking now about accuracy just about look, appearance and feeling The finish is awesome with a perfect polish and brushed CG. The fitting is almost perfect DIAL – HANDS CP The dial surface and colour are really nice, uniform and no paint-like. Markers and layout are almost perfect as we have already seen in a previous review. Lume colour and application seem accurate and with contours very well defined and clean. Well matched with hand lume. PIG logo- very similar in shape to H maker but better engraved and more detailed (the best in reps) Inscriptions LUMINOR MARINA PANERAI with nice colour, matched with lume, and perfectly raised like the best Noobs. CP is very correct and nice, but is better polished in a good Noob (but, as you know, Noob is uneven at this regard) I have not got yet info about the intensity of the lume CRYSTAL Following indications from Kuvarsit it is a gen crystal. It really has an awesome look but AR has a very little and faint purple tint. Kuvarsit says it is the same tint as gen. This crystal is raised with a perfect height and bevel. You can see that you are in front of a different crystal, this is IMO the first thing you notice seeing this watch. KW 417 Crystal is very clear and gives to dial a very impressive gen-like look. It seems you are seeing the dial through a clear lens but without magnification. Seeing the dial through this crystal, sometimes you have the feeling that the dial is a bit concave, that means more deep at the center and a bit raised at the contour. I have just had this feeling seeing some gen PAMs fitted with non domed crystals. IMO this crystal makes that other crystal reps seem a little “plastic”-like (exaggerating a little, of course). CASE - BEZEL – CG –CROWN – LEVER The polished surfaces of Case and bezel are almost perfect without flaws even inside lugs. Better finish IMO than in other reps. Edges are all very well defined The brushed surface of the CG and lever is completely gen-like and it is another eye-catching thing in KW 417. Lever and roller seem like gen in shape and it is COMPLETELY flush with the CG (perfect) The function of the lever is very smooth and reliable. Most likely because the lever hole is fitted with a rubber gasket like in other KW reps. Crown is “slim” like H maker and gen (better than Noob) Inner edges are square enough and way better than H maker, but inner finish and crisp square, mainly in back side, are clearly better in Noobs. CG Pin has well flattened and polished upper tip, a little recessed like gen, and has also nice lower tip. Anyway it seems a little more centered in CG than gen We have with KW 417 the best ensemble CG-Crown-Lever in replicas. WE MUST WAITING FOR COMPARISON PICS TO GET INFO ABOUT ACCURACY OF DIMENSIONS AND SHAPE. CASEBACK Very very nice caseback with deep and crisp engravings. I had liked to have a lens to see it, but the single eye look is awesome. Concerning custom Boutiques engraving in caseback (Statue of Liberty in 417), I really doubt that gen can be better, it is deep, crisp and very clean. Really beautiful. The general look of the caseback is impressive and very gen-like MOVEMENT I had no tools to remove caseback but KW has send to me the spec. and pics and it is the same movement installed by Noob factory. Therefore, no worries about that. But the same stories: short micrometric screw, bad Swan Neck spring shape and standard rep Incablock. STRAP and LUG SCREWS The strap is a beautiful ASSO with a little light colour that will become better and darker after some use. The finish is good and the stitching uniform and nice. Buckle with well engraved PANERAI and with a very good polished and look, really nice. Lug screws have well polished tips and the length is correct, but the notches are off the center in the four screws ************************************************************************************************* Waiting for comparison reviews, mainly with gen watch, to be made by Klockis and me and helped with the info and pics of JoehwfrcJ, we can see that we are in front of another type of rep in quality finish and detail, leaving aside the possible accuracy of shape and dimensions. We don’t know YET if this is the best REPLICA of PAM at this moment, but I can say that with this WATCH (I have voluntarily avoided the word replica) Kuvarsit has showed that they are able to make it. As said in another post in this thread: We can be seeing the starting of new options in the PAM replica manufacture scene. There are still many things to be defined: - Final review analyzing the samples - KW capacity of production - Supply capacity of gen items like the new Crystals - Maintenance of the quality in future productions - Final price with a possible increasing demand. - Etc... But at this moment all details are promissing. I repeat: BEAR IN MIND THAT THESE OPINIONS ARE IN A FIRST “SUPERFICIAL“ REVIEW. WITHOUT OTHER MODELS OR VERSIONS TO COMPARE EITHER GEN OR H MAKER / NOOB. I could be wrong with above mentioned opinions, and maybe I should have waited for the final review. But I have not been able to resist the temptation, because KW-417 doesn’t leave you indifferent. ALE Exactly what I meant to say in my feedback :lmao: Thanks for the work again bro. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALE7575 24 Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) How exciting! It was about time other makers started competing with the noob factory. Hopefully we will see better prices and better quality. Yes, obviously that will be good for PAM fans Beautifully examined! Well done! Many thanks my friend Great review. Can anyone confirm if they ever made a london boutique edition. I cant find any info on one. Thanks, but this is not the final Review, it is just the First Impressions. Final Review is already started by Klockis and me to be published when finished No, AFAIK London boutiques is not yet even in Panerai program. From KW just New York, Beverly hills and Firenze Thanks for the hard work Thanks my friend, nice comment Wow. I love that capitalism and competition are coming to China Yes, something similar is happening, and that will turn into profit for replica market in general Your reviews are making harder and harder for me to wait for mine. Once again, Thanks ALE! This watch really is worth the waiting. Believe me Exactly what I meant to say in my feedback :lmao: Thanks for the work again bro. Good one... But why not?? Thanks ALE Edited April 7, 2013 by ALE7575 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joehwrfc 0 Posted April 7, 2013 Great review. Can anyone confirm if they ever made a london boutique edition. I cant find any info on one. There isn't a London boutique, so no London edition I'm afraid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
integlspwr 0 Posted April 11, 2013 Can't wait for a KV 390 when it gets released. was gonna get a HFactory 390 but the KV seems to be more accurate / close to gen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALE7575 24 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) I though honestly that the AR of GEN PAM Boutiques was colourless, but after seeing below Video I get some doubts. OFFICINE PANERAI Edition New York - PAM00417 ã€äº¬éƒ½å±‹è³ªå±‹ã€‘ - YouTube What do you think about that? Please see the second reflection. I'm a little surprised Edited May 13, 2013 by ALE7575 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuvarsit 6 Posted May 16, 2013 you can be sure boutique edition pams has colored AR. like C,D,E,F,G,H series pam historique cases. exactly latest series has different AR. pam 005,pam 111 AR different than boutique edt. pams. don't compare boutique edt. glass with pam 111 some producers using all same glass in rep.world because also they thinking all glass same. but actually not. even cases different thats why panerai giving different OP numbers to all models Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALE7575 24 Posted May 16, 2013 you can be sure boutique edition pams has colored AR. like C,D,E,F,G,H series pam historique cases. exactly latest series has different AR. pam 005,pam 111 AR different than boutique edt. pams. don't compare boutique edt. glass with pam 111 some producers using all same glass in rep.world because also they thinking all glass same. but actually not. even cases different thats why panerai giving different OP numbers to all models Thanks Mehmet for confirming that matter Then your new PAM 417, 411 and 416 have a very accurate crystal. OK? I really ike this crystal from the first time. But now if it has the same AR colour than gen I think it is PERFECT !! ALE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dly02 0 Posted May 17, 2013 wow, amazing detail. thanks for the review! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perry 0 Posted May 17, 2013 I received my 417 last week. I can confirm that Ale's comments are very accurate. The case gleams like a mirror. Fully polished everywhere as a fine watch should be. Dial is flawless. Crystal the best I've ever seen with rep Pams. CG and lever are very nicely brushed. Lever closes with nice firm pressure. The watch seems to even wind smoother than any of my other rep Pams. Watch strap is a beautiful asso...best I've had in terms of reps Asso straps. Stiff yes but nicely made. Best Pam rep I've ever owned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALE7575 24 Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) I received my 417 last week. I can confirm that Ale's comments are very accurate. The case gleams like a mirror. Fully polished everywhere as a fine watch should be. Dial is flawless. Crystal the best I've ever seen with rep Pams. CG and lever are very nicely brushed. Lever closes with nice firm pressure. The watch seems to even wind smoother than any of my other rep Pams. Watch strap is a beautiful asso...best I've had in terms of reps Asso straps. Stiff yes but nicely made. Best Pam rep I've ever owned. Thanks to confrm it Congrats ALE Edited May 18, 2013 by ALE7575 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perry 0 Posted May 18, 2013 Ale......do you know what Pam of this quality Kuvarsit will release next? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RUSH2112 11 Posted May 18, 2013 Mine shipped today. Hope to have it in my hands/ on my wrist by end of next week.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perry 0 Posted May 18, 2013 You will love it. Best Pam rep ever made in terms of quality. We could argue all day about it's differences from gen but it can't be argued that this watch has the feel and look of a gen Pam more so than any I have ever handled. (and I've handled and own quite a few) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mindvision 0 Posted May 18, 2013 Added it to my wishlist, love it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OceanView 0 Posted May 19, 2013 is there a list of dealers that are selling this one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pmat 1 Posted May 19, 2013 Absolutely lovely and a great review. Now where the hell can I get one!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites