What is the primary difference PAM Regatta Flyback and Regatta Rattrapante

[cogwatch 1]

They look so similar, at least as I compare them side by side from Toro's site.

 

Sorry, can't seem to add photos or even emoticons from my iPad. I have to figure that out.

 

But I'm sure some of the PAM experts know them in their sleep.

 

 

Thanks

[cwazy1 0]

flyback has one chrono wth pushers at 2 and 4.

 

ratt gen is suppose to have 2 chronos with pushers at 2 4 and 10 the 2 starts and stops the first chrono, 10 starts and stops second chrono hand

 

on the rep, the 10 button does not do anything and the two chronos are generally glued together so they run at the same time.

 

get the flyback if you want more accurate.

[cogwatch 1]

Thanks cwazy.

 

I see the 3rd pusher. But it's at 8. No matter since it doesn't do anything.

 

WI has a Ratt that looks awesome, and might be worth the non functional chrono, http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=31399. But it has lum "dots" at the hours and I'm not sure that's gen-like. I have to research.

 

I have to figure out how to post pics with my iPad before I post anymore as it would be so much easier to discuss with pics.

 

 

[cwazy1 0]

oh, yeah its at 8, sorry, i was thinking of other double chrono models with the pusher at 10.

 

the one in your link is a pretty crappy rep... most of the good ones are 7750 movement based.

[ALE7575 24]

You have all this info in RWI PAM GUIDE read PAM 212-213 PAM 253-286

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/reference-pam-review-107365.html?t=107365

 

Below you have the extracts:

You can find some videos explaining the Flyback and Rattrapante funtions in gen watches. Obviously they don't work in replicas.!!

 

EVALUATION: (*) FIRST CLASS REP (I & J-series H maker) (with some restrictions due to inaccurate movement, see comments)

The PAM 212 is like a PAM 253 but with flat surface dial

The PAM 212 is similar to a PAM 213 but “Flyback” instead of “Rattrapante”

In 2005 H–series Panerai released above mentioned PAM 212 and 213 upscale chronographs, with fine movements OP XIX in a Luminor 1950 case.

A “Flyback” chronograph can work like a regular chronograph, starting-stopping with the pusher @2 and returning to zero pressing the pusher @4 after stopping with pusher @2.

But this type of chronograph has also this special “Flyback” function, also known as the “retour en vol” or Taylor function, which is very simple to operate. The “Flyback” function is used while the chronograph is running (without stopping by pressing the pusher @2) pressing the return to zero pusher @4, immediately returns the large blued centre hand to zero (we repeat: without having to stop it first) and the hand instantly starts again when the button is released. See Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G8CXrY0rz0&feature=related

The gen PAM 212 features this special technical function by means of the Panerai calibre OP XIX, an automatic movement with a column wheel system controlling the chronograph functions.

The appearance of the “Flyback” function was catalyzed by the first watch with a separate chronograph button (the stop and reset functions were previously controlled by the winding-crown). This watch appeared in 1923 and was developed by Breitling SA

The chronographs have afterwards gained the form which they retained until today. In 1934 the Breitling chronographs received the second chronograph button with the function of returning the seconds hand to zero. Thus it became possible to measure short intervals of time using the add function. However the patent of the “Flyback” chronograph belongs to Longines with its first “Flyback” chronograph dating back to 1936.

This “Flyback” complication is impossible to get by the replicas and, therefore, they have False “Flyback” function. Moreover, the Display caseback denounces an, obviously, inaccurate movement. Since the best versions of these replicas (I-series, and better J-series from H maker) have an impressive construction quality, we have classified them as First Class reps, but if we cannot live with such a flaws we should consider them as only very good reps. Following the below review from Polonus these replicas have thiner fonts in dial inscriptions and a very good crystal but maybe not sapphire quality like the gen.

Review of PAM 212 J-series from H maker here:

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/old-but-new-118821.html?p=1166210 by PolonusTM

REPLICA links:

(*)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam212i-luminor-flyback-chrono-1950-ultimate-edition-on-custom-dark-brown-leathe-strap/

(*)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam212i-luminor-flyback-chrono-1951-ultimate-edition/

(*)http://www.timesshop.net/12397-pa7510b-pam212-j-h-factory-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-7750-28800bph.html

(*)http://www.timesshop.net/7381-pa4525-pam212-flyback-1950-black-dial-ss-ru-asian-7750-28800bph.html

(*)http://asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=&P_id=2098&ti=

(*)http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&product s_id=9398&zenid=23d301bf468f98453b7f07ac9fdd8aa1

(*)http://www.kingshowbox.com/goods.php?id=7140

GEN links:

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Contemporary_50.html

http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome/luminor1950chrono.html

 

 

 

The PAM 213 is like a PAM 286 but with flat surface dial (PAM 286 has marked with blue the previous five minutes before the starting of the Regatta in the minute counter)

The PAM 213 is similar to a PAM 212 but “Rattrapante” instead of “Flyback”

In 2005 H–series Panerai released above mentioned PAM 213 and 212 upscale chronographs, with fine movements in a Luminor 1950 case.

A "Rattrapante","split seconds","double chronograph” or “doppelchrono” has two seconds hands, one hand is superimposed over the other. When you start the chrono, by pressing pusher @2, both hands start together, but when they are running, if you press the “Rattrapante” pusher @8, you stop the lower second hand, while the other continues running. If you push again the pusher @8 the lower hand catches up the hand which is running and they continue together again, if you push another time the lower hand stops again and the upper continues running, and so every time you repeat the pushing. See Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUSvi1oOaZg&feature=related

The gen PAM 213 features this special technical function by means of the Panerai calibre OP XVIII, an automatic movement with a double column wheel system controlling the chronograph functions.

This “Rattrapante” complication is impossible to get by the replicas and threfore they have False “Rattrapante” function and even a completely false pusher @8. Moreover, the Display caseback denounces an, obviously, inaccurate movement, even more inaccurate than in the case of the “Flyback”. Due to the best versions of these replicas, I-series from H maker, have an impressive construction quality, we must to classify them as very good reps, but if you cannot live with such a flaws we should consider them as only good reps.

REPLICA links:

http://www.puretime.co/product/pam213i-ultimate-edition-on-custom-dark-brown-leather-strap/

http://www.timesshop.net/12396-pa7500b-pam213-i-h-factory-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-7750-28800bph.html

http://www.timesshop.net/8112-pam213i-luminor-rattrapante-1950-black-dial-ss-lt-walnut-asian-7750-28800bph.html

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_56&produ cts_id=7218

http://www.kingshowbox.com/goods.php?id=6201

GEN links:

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Contemporary_51.html

http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome/luminor1950chrono.html

 

 

 

EVALUATION: (*) FIRST CLASS REP (I-series from H maker) (with some restrictions due to inaccurate movement, see comments)

The PAM 253 is like a PAM 212 but with decorated Clou de Paris dial

The PAM 253 is similar to a PAM 286 but “Flyback” instead of “Rattrapante” (PAM 286 has marked with blue the previous five minutes before the starting of the Regatta in the minute counter)

In 2006 I–series Panerai released a Unique Edition of 500 watches PAM 253 to celebrate the Panerai Classic Yachts Challege 2006.

A “Flyback” chronograph can work like a regular chronograph, starting-stopping with the pusher @2 and returning to zero pressing the pusher @4 after stopping with pusher @2.

But this type of chronograph has also this special “Flyback” function, also known as the “retour en vol” or Taylor function, which is very simple to operate. The “Flyback” function is used while the chronograph is running (without stopping by pressing the pusher @2) pressing the return to zero pusher @4, immediately returns the large blued centre hand to zero (we repeat: without having to stop it first) and the hand instantly starts again when the button is released. See Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G8CXrY0rz0&feature=related

The gen PAM 253 features this special technical function by means of the Panerai calibre OP XIX, an automatic movement with a column wheel system controlling the chronograph functions.

The appearance of the “Flyback” function was catalyzed by the first watch with a separate chronograph button (the stop and reset functions were previously controlled by the winding-crown). This watch appeared in 1923 and was developed by Breitling SA

The chronographs have afterwards gained the form which they retained until today. In 1934 the Breitling chronographs received the second chronograph button with the function of returning the seconds hand to zero. Thus it became possible to measure short intervals of time using the add function. However the patent of the “Flyback” chronograph belongs to Longines with its first “Flyback” chronograph dating back to 1936.

This “Flyback” complication is impossible to get by the replicas and threfore they have False “Flyback” function. Moreover, the Display caseback denounces an, obviously, inaccurate movement. Due to the best versions of these replicas, I-series from H maker have an impressive construction quality, we have classified them as First Class reps, but if we cannot live with such a flaws we should consider them as only very good reps.

You can see a fantastic pictorial of PAM 253 I from H maker here:

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-pam253i-mega-124678.html?p=1222634 by Del

REPLICA links:

(*)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam253i-luminor-regatta-flyback-chrono-1950-ultimate-edition-on-custom-brown-leathe-strap/

(*)http://www.timesshop.net/12444-pa7860b-pam253-i-h-factory-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-7750.html

http://www.timesshop.net/7583-pa6850-pam253-luminor-regatta-flyback-black-dial-ss-lt-asian-7750-28800bph.html

(*)http://asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=&P_id=2102&ti=

http://asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=144&P_id=1340&ti=

(*)http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_56&produ cts_id=7156

GEN links:

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Special_146.html

http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome/specials06.html

http://www.panerai.com/s_special_editions.xpd?id_lingua=2&id_sezione=16&i d_prodotto=6684&id_categoria=5824

 

 

The PAM 286 is a PAM 213 but with decorated Clou de Paris dial

The PAM 286 is similar to PAM 253 but “Rattrapante” instead of “Flyback” (PAM 286 has marked with blue the previous five minutes before the starting of the Regatta in the minute counter)

In 2007 J–series Panerai released a Unique Edition of 500 watches PAM 286 to celebrate the Panerai Classic Yachts Challege 2007.

A "Rattrapante","split seconds","double chronograph” or “doppelchrono” has two seconds hands, one hand is superimposed over the other. When you start the chrono, by pressing pusher @2, both hands start together, but when they are running, if you press the “Rattrapante” pusher @8, you stop the lower second hand, while the other continues running. If you push again the pusher @8 the lower hand catches up the hand which is running and they continue together again, if you push another time the lower hand stops again and the upper continues running, and so every time you repeat the pushing. See Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUSvi1oOaZg&feature=related

The gen PAM 213 features this special technical by means of the Panerai calibre OP XVIII, an automatic movement with a double column wheel system controlling the chronograph functions.

This “Rattrapante” complication is impossible to get by the replicas and threfore they have False “Rattrapante” function and even a completely false pusher @8. Moreover, the Display caseback denounces an, obviously, inaccurate movement, even more inaccurate than in the case of the “Flyback”. Due to the best versions of these replicas have an impressive construction quality, we must to classify them as very good reps, but if you cannot live with such a flaws we should consider them as only good reps.

REPLICA links:

http://www.puretime.co/product/pam286j-ultimate-edition-on-custom-light-brown-leather-strap/

http://www.timesshop.net/12458-pa7980b-pam286-j-h-factory-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-7750-28800bph.html

http://www.timesshop.net/7690-pam286j-panerai-luminor-regatta-black-dial-ss-lt-dark-tan-asian-7750-28800bph.html

http://asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=144&P_id=2153&ti=

http://www.marvellousreplica.com/products_detail.php?ProId=650

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_56&produ cts_id=7221

GEN links:

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Special_147.html

http://www.panerai.com/s_special_editions.xpd?id_lingua=2&id_sezione=16&i d_prodotto=7312&id_categoria=7295

http://www.watchuwant.com/watches/panerai-pam-286-j-luminor-1950-regatta-rattrapante-chronograph-2007-special-edition-only-500

Edited April 25, 2013 by ALE7575

[jeffw69 0]

Thanks Ale for the pics and descriptions.

[JohnPilot 1]

In real life flyback means that the stophand starts immediatly again aftre the reset.

Rattrapante means it has 2 secondhands for the stopfunction. So you can stop f.ex. 2 cars or horses.

Rattrapantes always have a 3rd stpbutton, normally at 11:00.

[TheSav 2]

I was reading through ales pam guide this morning and was blown away by all the info. I can't imagine how long it would have taken to put it all together. Bloody great job!

[cogwatch 1]

Awesome, thanks Ale. Was just about to go to bed when I thought I would check my post. Now I can't sleep, too much to read!!!

[Calcidose 0]

That's what I'm looking for. Thanks.

[agrimtex 0]

Very interesting post, thx !! I love these PAMs, I would gefinitely buy a gen (if there is no chance that the flyback and regatta functions be reped in a near future).

[mysterio 18]

Very interesting post, thx !! I love these PAMs, I would gefinitely buy a gen (if there is no chance that the flyback and regatta functions be reped in a near future).

 

There is a chance actually. Angus was asking about which reps use the rattrapante function which may indicate interest from the makers about repping the movement or at least making a very good looking movement with a working rattrapante function.

[agrimtex 0]

Thats very good news indeed thx for the info

[Mr_B 2,401]

Great info, im considering grabbing one of these from toro, looks like the flyback is the one to go for then.

[cogwatch 1]

Great info, im considering grabbing one of these from toro, looks like the flyback is the one to go for then.

 

Mr_Baldwin,

 

I would say that it depends on what's critical to you. If accuracy to the gen is the most critical thing for you then yes, I guess the Flyback would be the one. But I personally went for the 286 Rattrapante. There were a couple of reasons. The blue on the first 5 of the subdial at 3:00 added color that just made the dial pop in my opinion, especially when paired with a leather strap with blue stitching. Also, I just love saying Rattrapante

 

Below are some pics of my 286 Rattrapante. The notes before the pics were from a thread I did on my top 10 watches (out of about 150). The 286 made that top 10, so that should tell you something. Here is the thread on my top 10 if you want to check it out, and see what company the 286 was in: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=107867&hl=&fromsearch=1

 

If you don't know what a "Phizzy Strap" and "Profsteve Crystal" that are mentioned below are, let me know and I'll give you the details.

 

 

Pam 286 Rattrapante. Rep, with Phizzy Strap and Profsteve Crystal. Pam is the only brand that had more than one in the top 10. This one is just incredible with the textured dial, the blue highlights on the second hand and the first 5 of the 3:00 subdial. The Profsteve crystal and the Phizzy strap just take an already awesome watch over the top, and easily into the top 10.

 

 

 

 

[zelenicaj 0]

Is there a REP with working rattrapante function?

[Mr_B 2,401]

Great info, im considering grabbing one of these from toro, looks like the flyback is the one to go for then.

 

Mr_Baldwin,

 

I would say that it depends on what's critical to you. If accuracy to the gen is the most critical thing for you then yes, I guess the Flyback would be the one. But I personally went for the 286 Rattrapante. There were a couple of reasons. The blue on the first 5 of the subdial at 3:00 added color that just made the dial pop in my opinion, especially when paired with a leather strap with blue stitching. Also, I just love saying Rattrapante

 

Below are some pics of my 286 Rattrapante. The notes before the pics were from a thread I did on my top 10 watches (out of about 150). The 286 made that top 10, so that should tell you something. Here is the thread on my top 10 if you want to check it out, and see what company the 286 was in: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=107867&hl=&fromsearch=1

 

If you don't know what a "Phizzy Strap" and "Profsteve Crystal" that are mentioned below are, let me know and I'll give you the details.

 

 

Pam 286 Rattrapante. Rep, with Phizzy Strap and Profsteve Crystal. Pam is the only brand that had more than one in the top 10. This one is just incredible with the textured dial, the blue highlights on the second hand and the first 5 of the 3:00 subdial. The Profsteve crystal and the Phizzy strap just take an already awesome watch over the top, and easily into the top 10.

 

 

 

 

Great info mate, I agree this version looks slightly better, although I cannot find the steel version, only the DLC coated version on toro's site.

 

Is there a REP with working rattrapante function?

Not to my knowledge

[ALE7575 24]

In Nov 2015 NOT at ALL

 

ALE

[MikeTampa 0]

The features on these aren't fully functioning though right? I've wanted one for a while but I just don't see a point in buying it if it doesn't work the way it should.

[Mr_B 2,401]

The chronos still work, just the reset is slightly different. The extra button doesn't really matter imo, it's a rep and looks the same.

[5teve 112]

Great looking watch,just the non working pusher and the 2 fingers stuck together really bothers me.:-(

In true RWG fashion,mine says hi.