The new asian 7750 (= a07.211) is a bad movement?

[gran 198]

Be aware that some of the new asian 7750 movements around do not have 25 jewels in them!!!

 

(Jewel = jewel-lined pivot hole with ruby red colour)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The New 37mm Asian7750/a07.211 is larger in diametre than the asian7750 and Swiss7750 movement,

and is same size as the new ETA Valgranges.

 

These larger 37mm New Asian 7750 (=a07.211) movements fit well in larger watches,

like the CHOPARD GTXXL Chronograph

 

 

 

 

 

However the new 7750 around appear to have very few jewels in them,

but have more than 15 metal bearings instead (This has also been confirmed by The Zigmeister)

 

Jewels = A jewel bearing is a bearing in which a metal spindle turns in a jewel-lined pivot hole with ruby red colour. Jewel bearings were invented in 1704 for use in watches by Nicolas Fatio de Duillier, Peter Debaufre, and Jacob Debaufre, who received an English patent for the idea. Originally natural jewels were used, such as sapphire, ruby, and garnet. In 1902, a process to make synthetic sapphire and ruby (crystalline aluminum oxide, also known as corundum) was invented by Auguste Verneuil, making jewelled bearings much less expensive. Today most jewelled bearings are synthetic ruby or sapphire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_bearing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought a CHOPARD GTXXL Chrono with this new larger asian 7750 movement (=asian a07.211 movement)

 

I spotted that the red ruby colour was absent ontop of 3 gears

 

I sent it to Domi for service, as I could see it was lacking 3 of the the usual ruby red Jewelled bearings that are typical for 7750 movements

 

It turned out this movement has metal bearings in fact it had only few ruby red jewels were used

 

Note that jeweled bearings are most common in a modern movement

 

I was not at all happy with this and had the movement changed (I will post more on the change of movements in a diffrent thread later).

 

 

 

 

 

So is the new asian 7750 (= a07.211) a bad movement? The Zigmeister said that, and I quote;

"When you design and build a movement with metal jewels not sapphire ones, then expect to see metal jewels. This is how this particular A7750 has been build and designed. If there were no jewels, then you could blame QC, but not in this instance, QC is working just fine, all the jewels are in place and doing what they are designed to do..Many vintage pocket watch "jewels" are nothing more than holes in the brass plates, clocks are the same, the pivots turn in the brass plates."

 

 

 

 

However the dealers do not properly describe this new asian 7750,

and certainly do not advertise that metal bearings have been used

 

I find this not to be acceptable

when not explicitly explained to the buyers,

as this new 7750 is likely less expensive to produce,

and less beautiful to look at,

and further from the genuine in appearance

 

 

 

Dealers to be trusted on this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A pictorial description of the asian a07.211 (= New A7750) movement below:

 

 

First a comparison of the new 7750 (= a07.211) and SWISS 7750 and normal asian A7750

 

 

 

A partial breakdown of the new Asian A7750 (= Asian a07.211)

 

 

 

 

 

As a finishing note, I hope and pray The Zigmeister or any other of our excellent watchmakers do a more detailed review on this topic so all (RWG menbers and Dealers alike) can be well educated about this and other asian 7750s around so members do not end up getting a big surprise

 

 

+ I will post more on this topic later

 

 

Thank you

Gran :thumbsupsmileyanim:

[greg_r 83]

hmm - interesting. Thanks for the info, Gran. Time will tell whether the new movement is any less reliable than the other versions.

[gran 198]

Yes greg_r but will people even buy this new 7750 movement now?

When they know it does not have the expected ruby red jewels, but instead greyish metal bearings instead?

 

Lets give the factories the message

Edited April 26, 2010 by gran

[Luthier 1]

Yes greg_r but will people even buy this new 7750 movement now?

When they know it does not have the expected ruby red jewels, but instead greyish metal bearings instead?

 

Lets give the factories the message

 

Yeah, right... like they'd listen.

[greg_r 83]

Yes greg_r but will people even buy this new 7750 movement now?

When they know it does not have the expected ruby red jewels, but instead greyish metal bearings instead?

 

Lets give the factories the message

 

 

hmm - good question. Personally I'd be more concerned about reliability - if the movement proves to be reliable and consistent, I'm not sure I'd care that much about the type of jewel being used - especially as many 7750-based reps have closed casebacks anyhow... Maybe that's just me...

[gran 198]

Yes greg_r but will people even buy this new 7750 movement now?

When they know it does not have the expected ruby red jewels, but instead greyish metal bearings instead?

 

Lets give the factories the message

 

 

hmm - good question. Personally I'd be more concerned about reliability - if the movement proves to be reliable and consistent, I'm not sure I'd care that much about the type of jewel being used - especially as many 7750-based reps have closed casebacks anyhow... Maybe that's just me...

 

 

It is just you

[GC 4,517]

here is a pic of the Valgranges 07.221. I agree about it not being as good looking as the 7750 but it does look like it should, i.e. like a 07.211, albeit missing the original 24 jewels. I'm interested to see what the movt experts chime in about the missing jewels and reliability factors.

 

 

[gran 198]

Yes greg_r but will people even buy this new 7750 movement now?

When they know it does not have the expected ruby red jewels, but instead greyish metal bearings instead?

 

Lets give the factories the message

 

Yeah, right... like they'd listen.

 

I think they might if they get proper feedback on this issue from the dealers...they do improve watches now and then

[gran 198]

here is a pic of the Valgranges 07.221. I agree about it not being as good looking as the 7750 but it does look like it should, i.e. like a 07.211, albeit missing the original 24 jewels. I'm interested to see what the movt experts chime in about the missing jewels and reliability factors

 

 

 

Why are you showing pictures of the genuine 07.211? some confusion here? I am talking about a CHINESE movement only the same size as the valgranges

[GC 4,517]

I am aware you are talking about a CHINESE movt, which just so happens to be a clone of a 07.211, not just a larger 7750. So I posted the pic to compare the, as you call it "new 7750", movements. I agree about it not being as good looking as the 7750 but it does look like it should, i.e. like a 07.211, albeit missing the original 24 jewels. I'm interested to see what the movt experts chime in about the missing jewels and reliability factors

[gran 198]

I am aware you are talking about a CHINESE movt, which just so happens to be a clone of a 07.211, not just a larger 7750. So I posted the pic to compare the, as you call it "new 7750", movements. I agree about it not being as good looking as the 7750 but it does look like it should, i.e. like a 07.211, albeit missing the original 24 jewels. I'm interested to see what the movt experts chime in about the missing jewels and reliability factors

 

OK Sorry G.Curcio! The 07.211 is mostly just a larger diameter (37mm) version of the ordinary 7750....

 

Reason I use the term "new 7750" is that some dealers indeed use that description (a07.211 Joshua use so he is a step ahead of the others)

 

I too would like to know what the movt experts say as they might have know about this for some time

[RolexAddict 1]

interesting....

 

after the Swiss/Chinese ETA 2836, now we have a new episod :

 

the A7750 24 (or 25, who care ?) jewels.... season 1.

 

History :

 

- the A7750 sec. at 9. excellent work horse.

 

- the A7750 sec. at 6. problematic.

 

Why ?

 

the new gear train plate developed to drive the sec. at 6 su-dial is a mess... but, with graphite powder (Harry Potter and Alice in Wonderland's technologies) all troubles are cured. Great.

 

Advise :

To service a movement, its not necessary to post pics showing the best top equipment, like ultra-sonic or what else, just soak parts in aceton, thats the best way to clean, degrease, and look for real jewels... or plastic...

 

The true about the improved A7750 28.800bph is elsewhere...

[lildaddym 0]

What watches might we find these in? I see (I think) it's a chrono movement...

[gran 198]

What watches might we find these in? I see (I think) it's a chrono movement...

 

Yes someone should do some detective work and make a list.....

 

I will start the list:

 

Some CHOPARD GTXXL

Some CONCORD I think

Others?

[gran 198]

interesting....

 

after the Swiss/Chinese ETA 2836, now we have a new episod :

 

the A7750 24 (or 25, who care ?) jewels.... season 1.

 

History :

 

- the A7750 sec. at 9. excellent work horse.

 

- the A7750 sec. at 6. problematic.

 

Why ?

 

the new gear train plate developed to drive the sec. at 6 su-dial is a mess... but, with graphite powder (Harry Potter and Alice in Wonderland's technologies) all troubles are cured. Great.

 

Advise :

To service a movement, its not necessary to post pics showing the best top equipment, like ultra-sonic or what else, just soak parts in aceton, thats the best way to clean, degrease, and look for real jewels... or plastic...

 

The true about the improved A7750 28.800bph is elsewhere...

 

 

Yes! lets put it into acetone and see ...BTW this is Asian a07.211 season 1.