SSTEEL 0 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) If you have been following my quest since purchasing my Tag Carrera CV2A10 from Trevor, you will have noticed I have pushed the boat out regarding frankening it with Genuine Tag Heuer parts. (more photos here and here). I have also put a side by side comparison of the rep vs gen Carrera bracelets as to educate members on their differences so not to fall for any scams where eGay members advertise a rep as gen, which I have seen many. For your reference, I have also put together an interim collection of Carrera model part numbers. I love the CV2A10 model, and the new 50th Anniversary model too. There are so many models with slight differences, you will be surprised. This thread will be used for my Spare case which I got in todays post. As you may of seen, I posted a question in the Tag Heuer section asking if anyone had any experience in removing the bezel insert from a Carrera. Sadly, nobody has, and my Google searches only found other owners of either the gen, or rep looking for the same info, even on WUS, someone was asking, and another member there stated that the gen does not have an insert at all, and that its actually the bezel itself which is painted. I actually doubt this though as my Gen parts supplier is currently sourcing my next parts list of gen parts. A Bezel insert, and Black Chapter Ring. I will ask if he can source me a Genuine case set, and if he can, this will come in useful for this thread too. Back to the subject of this thread, and what I will be covering here. Here's the spare case set which arrived today. 7750 Movement ring (if anyone could recommend a supplier for tabs, and screws for this, I would appreciate it) Rep Crown, and pushers 1. Remove Crystal 2. Remove Bezel Insert 3. Remove both pushers 4. Inspect, and compare rep pushers against gen (with photos). I already know that the rep pushers are not the same screw in type as the gen, and are actually keyed in place, and retained with tiny c-clips. 5. Inspect pushers keyed holes, measure these holes, and see if their circumference is smaller that the thread on the gen pushers. If this is the case, I can micro tap new threads in, and screw fit, and seal in gen pushers for water resistance. This maybe easier said than done though, as another member, ceejay observed this area when he was refitting a pusher which fell out of his case, and he noticed what looked like a small tube pushed into the case hole. We shall see, I will document my findings with macro shots for anyone who may be contemplating carrying out the same work. 6. If all goes well with the above plans, I will then eventually be trial fitting a gen crystal gasket to see if its the same size, as someone next door on RWI said in my thread there that a gen crystal won't fit, but when I asked them why exactly, my question fell on deaf ears. 7. Once I have done all the above, if the gasket fits, I will order a gen crystal, and fit it. 8. Replace back case O-ring, and then check the case by way of a water resistance test up to 10Bar. I don't yet have this equipment, and won't have it until later this year due to one thing and another, including our family vacation. 9. Document step 8 with both photo, and video. I am curious of how the crown/stem will hold up, as the Carrera does not have a screw down crown. I suspect whilst pressurising the case (without movement fitted), the stem/crown will let go, but will document at which PSi it does. 10 to be continued. Thanks for reading, more to come as and when I get time. Edited June 8, 2013 by SSTEEL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgtguk 0 Posted June 7, 2013 Great work mate :suck: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSav 2 Posted June 7, 2013 Top job on your project and the info steel. You are going to have a kick ass watch once you are finished. One that you will surely treasure. Best of luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 7, 2013 Thanks guys, I treasure it already, and knowing I actually put it together myself, I feel quite proud of myself too. The rep bezel insert, and chapter ring are both ever so slightly off, which in turn make my large chronograph hand fitting off a second, but after numerous checks, measurements, and lots of looking closely at the rep counterparts, I can now see my hands are all fitted spot on, and its the rep parts making it look off. The gen parts of these have been ordered, so will update this thread when I get them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hacker2 0 Posted June 7, 2013 so how much will be rep after you get those parts? Good to see its coming together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 7, 2013 so how much will be rep after you get those parts? Good to see its coming together. Once the bezel insert and chapter ring are re[placed, the only part that will be rep will be the case set, minus the crown, and pushers as these are gen. If my supplier can get me a gen case set, then it will be 100& frankengen. Depending on the cost of the case set, the whole cost is still less than a new gen, and its been more fun that simply forking out for a gen aways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pharmo 33 Posted June 7, 2013 Amazing work ssteel. I have been following your threads carefully and look forward to further excellent posts (as per usual). All the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 7, 2013 Thanks Pharmo, I don't know if you noticed, but my Seiko is available Father-in-law returned it as he bought himself a cheap quartz, He said the Seiko was too flash for him, and he was scared of damaging it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pharmo 33 Posted June 7, 2013 Oh didnt see that...checking out now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 18, 2013 I have heard back from my genuine parts supplier that he cannot source a new case set other than from TAG themselves, and at the quoted $1000, I thin I will work on the spare case set I have, and see how I get on with it. Had some free time today, and with a empty house, I set about disassembling the spare Carrera case. First, I wanted to remove the pushers from the rep case, these are held in place with tiny cir clips locking them into place. The construction, and functionality of these compared to the genuine pushers I have is slightly different, but more on that later. Pushers removed first so I could get a press die in there to remove crystal later... A look inside the area of the crown and pushers... Now lets take a look at these pushers in more detail... Rep pushers... (notice the small indented ring, this is where the tiny cir clip locks the pusher into place. Also noticed the small black o-ring. Rep Start/Stop Pusher... Rep Reset Pusher... Now onto the comparison photos. The Genuine Pushers are on the bottom... Genuine with the screw thread... Genuine, Left... Next, I popped out the crystal... Closer look at the crystal gasket, and chapter ring... Removed the crystal gasket, and took some reference photos on which way its fitted... Then I set about removing the bezel/insert. This spare case is the chromed bezel insert model, not the black bezel insert like my franken. I am unsure if the construction of my franken bezel is the same as this one, but looking closely at this thing, the bezel insert, and bezel are one piece of machined stainless steel.. Also removed the chapter ring with the bezel as the chapter ring sits under the bezel... The chapter ring was held in place with 4 x sticky strips. I have also noticed some marking to the case in this area, which looks like its possibly had some correction work done, and marked in the process.. The small hole you see on the edge to the left of the sticky strip is to home the chapter ring centre. Chapter Ring... Rear of Chapter Ring, and the dimple which mates with the hole above mentioned... Some photos of the one piece removed Bezel. Looking closely at this, I cannot see anything that reflects that there is an insert, its all one piece...(looks like theres a lip around the circumference, but this is machined that way... More marks visible on the rear of the bezel, which has to relate to the factory removing, or doing something with this watch prior to marketing/selling. Seems weird... Now a look at the case with the bezel removed... Group shot of dismantled parts... Crystal, and case back put away for safe keeping. Awaiting for genuine crystal measurements at the moment, which will determine whether or not I will be able to fit a genuine crystal in this rep case set or not... Trial fit of a gen pusher, just to check tolerances, and there's quite a difference. The thread slides into the case so far, then stops. Unsure at this point if I will be able to use the gen pushers or not due to the completely different construction, and design used with the rep pushers... Closer look at the hole where the threaded part of the gen pusher stops at. It maybe possible to tap and die this inner area, but then can't see how the gen pusher would work, as its completely different in construction as the rep pusher. The rep pushers have an inner area of the tip of the pushers, which when pushed, the protruding case tubes go into. So that was that for now, need to do some micro work, and measurements regarding the pushers. Photo of disassembled case for reference.. And that it for today. Will up date later once I get the tolerance measurements of the genuine crystal from my supplier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSav 2 Posted June 18, 2013 Nice work and reference post steel. As a suggestion for your pushers. Rather than fuck up first go on your case get yourself some aluminium or scrap stainless the same thickness as to practice a couple of times on with your die set. At least then you will be able to experiment a little and gain a better idea of what you are up against. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeavyKrush 16 Posted June 18, 2013 Great job Steel. Will follow this thread for sure mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Something was bugging me about the look of the rep pushers compared to the genuine ones, then it struck me that, with the rep pushers, they were missing a cylinder type area below the push area. This cylinder area is part of the tubes pushed into the rep case. The below photos will explain better. Basically the rep pushers tubes mimic part of the gen pushers, to make the rep look more accurate. Edited June 18, 2013 by SSTEEL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 18, 2013 Nice work and reference post steel. As a suggestion for your pushers. Rather than fuck up first go on your case get yourself some aluminium or scrap stainless the same thickness as to practice a couple of times on with your die set. At least then you will be able to experiment a little and gain a better idea of what you are up against. Superb advice, glad you mentioned this, I will certainly do this before hand Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pharmo 33 Posted June 18, 2013 Amazing work mate - and superb pictures. I too will most def be following the thread. Btw, u must have a lot and time and patience to do this?! Do u have a day job? :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 18, 2013 I am semi retired due to poor health, so have plenty of time, and still dabble with some work from time to time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niklas 0 Posted June 18, 2013 Very interesting thread! Keep up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pharmo 33 Posted June 18, 2013 I am semi retired due to poor health, so have plenty of time, and still dabble with some work from time to time. I see, i was feeling guilty for not making enough time for my beloved watches :-) Now i can rest in peace! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Well, following on from a thread of forums member Ceejay from the RWG next door and his Carrera, he noticed after a pusher coming out of his Carrera case, and discovering the small circlip that holds it in place, he set about refitting it. After reading about this, I asked a question I was puzzled about relating to the pushers on the rep Carrera Day Day model. My start pusher can be rotated in situ, but the reset pusher is fixed. It was the start pusher on mine and the same, start pusher can be rotated, reset pusher can't (couldn't make out why?). I found out today mate why the start pusher can be rotated, whilst the reset pusher cannot. The reset pusher, the part which touches the actual movement trigger is cut at an angle. But this is actually not what is preventing the reset button to rotate. Upon closer inspection, I notice that the reset pusher shaft has to flat edges, here's a shot of one of those flat edges... Then when you look closely at the reset tube/hole from the outside of the case, looks normal, and round, but its only when you look at the same tube/hole from inside the case you can see two flat edges on the circumference... So, I am guessing this has something to do with the A7750 reset trigger. These two notches restrict the reset pusher from fitting into the case one of two ways.... I need to take a look inside my franken Carrera, and get some photos of how the rep reset pusher touches the Swiss ETA 7750 reset trigger, as I don't want to be causing any damage to my genuine movement in there. Edited June 18, 2013 by SSTEEL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) The next steps are to measure, make notes, then offer up the gen pushers to the case, measure up again, then tap out those rep pusher tube, and make more measurements before finally cutting them down to size, and tap a thread into them for the gen pushers. Once this is done I will screw in the gen pushers into the new threaded tubes, sealing with some good, waterproof sealant, but not too strong as I cannot unscrew at a later date. Then offer up the modded tube/pusher to find its sweet spot, then bond into place with a very strong 2 part water resistant epoxy resin to ensure water resistance. Edited June 19, 2013 by SSTEEL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jase 0 Posted June 19, 2013 I recently got the quartz version of this as a test drive to getting the 7750 version in a couple of months. Both pushers rotate in the quartz version. Loving this thread Steel. Keep up the good work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 19, 2013 You will love the A7750 version, but be sure to get up to speed on how to look after the 7750 movement. Thanks for the heads up on the pushers with the quartz model Carrera.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSTEEL 0 Posted June 25, 2013 Update: Got a second Carrera CV2A10 case with black bezel today from a great member over on RWI. It came complete, minus the crystal, which is perfect for what I wanted to check. I can now confirm that the black bezel 43mm Carrera is a different construction than that of the chromed bezel 43mm Carrera. The black bezel insert came out very easily, and is held in place with double sided thin sticky tape, and not snapped into position. Quite happy with this result, as now I know I can go ahead and replace the black insert on my franken with a genuine insert, although I will bond into place with either Hydro Cement of Gorilla Glue. I have confirmed dimensions from my genuine parts supplier of both the crystal, and bezel insert, and its good to go, so will be getting these gen parts soon. Seeing as the Gen case set is a little over $1k, I have enquired about getting just a gen case back. Both the first Carrera donor case, and this second one, even though both are stated on their case backs as CV2A10 Carrera models, I have to say, they looks very slightly different to my franken case. More noticeable in the lug areas, but very minor. On the donor cases, the lug profile is shorter, and not as wide as my franken. I will add photos showing this difference, and also some measurements once my digital calliper is fixed as I broke my lcd. Hope the above info is of some help to you should you be wanting to carry out any similar mods to your Carrera Thanks for reading, photos, and measurements to follow in the next update. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhounsell 0 Posted June 25, 2013 Really enjoying this thread. Very interesting to see how the replicas mimic look but not necessarily construction of the watch. Looking forward to seeing your progress as it comes along especially since I really like this particular watch. Good Luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
