I am an "old timer" (excuse the pun) stopping by to say hello

[vilan 0]

I am thrilled and not surprised to see the popularity and sustainability of replica collector sites. In 1999, when the best place to buy a replica watch was on Yahoo auctions, I struck up an email relationship with a replica dealer and himself a collector named Andreas who was a Russian living in upstate NY. He had the best of what was being offered then, which was limited to Cartier, Rolex, Omega and a few other popular brands. We touched on whether there ever would be replicas of the other brands we saw discussed in magazines like Watch Time and Chronos, and concluded it would not happen because the brand names were too obscure, and the Chinese factories would limit themselves to only the popular knock offs. Boy were we shortsighted!

 

I suggested to Andreas that there were other collectors and dealers on the Internet, and that we should establish a website where they could come and chat about their watches, scammers, wish lists etc. and we started the "Replica Watch Collector", the first website that Andreas ran as the webmaster. Soon we had thousands of visitors, but also many poorly behaved posters who abused the privilege of being a member. Andreas turned that website over to a guy in England and started a new site called the "Replica Collector" with stricter rules. That site also took off, and around 2001 the volume was too much for Andreas so he turned that site over to a different group of members; and I became just a member who posted and then just lurked. These two sites were the fathers of all of the other sites that followed.

 

Over the years I have continued to accumulate watches and to test out different dealers and products as a hobby. I probably have bought watches from more than 75 different sources, and have too many watches to display. I am a lawyer and represent some marketers of gen watches; and I take my fee in merchandise so I have a huge number of "real" watches too. I wear both the better reps and gens interchangeably, and personally value a watch for how it looks on my wrist, not its resale value.

 

I am going to post in the watch repair section a question that might be answered here: Is there a trusted repair person or watchmaker who can replace an Asian automatic movement with a hand wound movement? If not is there a trusted person who can fix stuck spinner disks on automatic movements for a reasonable price? I have at least 10 watches that I would like to revive.

Edited October 3, 2013 by vilan

[Electron17 0]

Hello and welcome to RWG, very interesting to read your post. Thanks very much, There are several watch repairers like Kenny on the forum, contact one of them and I am sure they can help you.

[nev848 0]

Hello and welcome to the mad house....

 

Oh and there are some poorly behaved members here too... Well most of them to be fair

 

But they keep this place together and are commonly known as Mods.

[richardm1142 0]

Hugely interesting to hear from someone who can recount part of the tale of the origins of all the various forums that have emerged, over what is in reality a short space of time.

[trailboss99 996]

Vilan! Long, long long time no see. How the hell are you mate?

No doubt a few of the old timers will be around to say hi but folks, this guy is THE old timer!

Johnny Boy drops in now and again still and Omni, Offshore and a few of the early RWG guys are still here.

 

We are honoured to see you you here Vilan. Is Andreas still about?

[TheSav 2]

G'day and welcome.

 

Would love to see some pics of your collection.

[yawn 122]

Hope you find cozy here

[vilan 0]

I just read "A Brief History Of RWG: an explanation for the confused and if the topic was not locked, I could add and correct a few things. That posting describes the 2nd generation of replica watch sites, but omits what happened before. Let cover a few things to give you some flavor and to let you see how things have changed.

 

The original two sites I mentioned in my post, above had thousands of regular visitors (which today would be called members). The original sites were focused on the reliability of dealers, and if a dealer was criticized he would flame the posters and have his allies (usually customers he gave discounts to) join in the flaming. Soon, new topics were opened to discuss the flaming wars, and that is what drove Andreas and me away.

 

I do recall the days of Blade (who actually had the 4th or 5th of the major replica sites as I remember it), and the complaints and disappointment of those who joined his site. If I boot up the computer I used 14 years ago, and if I can open my archived email from 1998 -2003, I think I could provide an extremely accurate account of the history of rep collecting and all of the popular replica watch discussion boards as well as images from the first generation of replica sale websites. Maybe I will do that one day.

 

Before the flame wars overtook the more pertinent posting, the discussions on the original sites were based mainly on comparing the flaws in the replicas compared to the gens, and on which dealers had something the others did not. We started the practice of photographing genuine watches and comparing them to the current crop of reps, and then one of the regular posters who was a photographer took over that chore.Of course dealers were not regularly offering A Lange & Sohne, Baume-Mercier, Blancpain, Bell & Ross, Corum, Daniel Roth, Glashutte, Richard Mille, Ulysse Nardin etc. (although a few of these did pop into the mix once and a while). Rather , there were plenty of Patek Phillippe models as well as IWC, Breuet, Breitling, Cartier, Franck Muller and Rolex reps. In 1999 and 2000, although Panerai had been acquired by Vendome, I recall that the magazine Watch Time did a spread on its revival and created the impression it was still an iconic, Italian watch company reintroducing chic, military surplus watches. A few months later, replicas of the 44mm Luminor Marina model were being offered. Then, about a year later, Vendome began to promote the Panerai brand heavily. The first batch of Panerai reps were horrible, with skinny crowns under the guard. The fact that an unknown watch was being distributed as a replica gave rise to speculation about whether the gen manufacturers were using replicas to promote interest in the gens; and we had lively debates about that. Then IWC did the same thing with the re-introduction of its "Big Pilot" where the rep suddenly was being offered widely a year before the gen hit the stores, or was advertised- and we were even more convinced there was an illicit relationship between the gens and the rep companies. One of our members got a job in Hong Kong for a bank that financed a slew of rep companies and he claimed to have solved the mystery. He posted explanations on the sites that said essentially the Swiss companies were using Chinese manufacturers for part of he gen watches. He explained further that the Chinese factories were using the case moldings, and what they saw from plans and models during the time they were doing the subcontracting work; and made reps in anticipation that the gens would soon be promoting those models in America. We readers of course never knew if that was true, but it sounded plausible; and we wanted it to be true since that would make the reps like illegitimated step brothers of the gens.

 

I added this post to provide a little more texture for those who enjoy this hobby, and because what was written earlier by the Admin seemed incomplete.

Edited October 3, 2013 by vilan

[vilan 0]

Night Watchman:

 

I am happy to see your post, and that you remember me. The last I heard of Andreas was when we were playing chess over the Internet where each guy could take as much time as he wanted (I mean days or weeks or even years). In between moves we would chat by email about watches and life. I got him in a position where I was sure I had him beat (after 3 months of play). He did not respond to the game or my emails for about a year, and I thought he died. However, one day I got a notice that my opponent in the chess game had made a move. I could not believe it. Moreover, I do not know if I was more interested in finding out what happened to Andreas, or to find out what his move would be. Well, he did figure out a brilliant escape, and played me to a stalemate (which we declared after another 4 months). He never explained why he disappeared, and a few weeks after the game was over, he dropped off the face of the earth (as far as I could tell). He closed his email account, and when I tried to Google him, nothing came up.

Edited October 3, 2013 by vilan

[Kaiser 4]

Interesting stuff Vilan, welcome (back)!

[the_name_is_mac 3]

Night Watchman:

 

I am happy to see your post, and that you remember me. The last I heard of Andreas was when we were playing chess over the Internet where each guy could take as much time as he wanted (I mean days or weeks or even years). In between moves we would chat by email about watches and life. I got him in a position where I was sure I had him beat (after 3 months of play). He did not respond to the game or my emails for about a year, and I thought he died. However, one day I got a notice that my opponent in the chess game had made a move. I could not believe it. Moreover, I do not know if I was more interested in finding out what happened to Andreas, or to find out what his move would be. Well, he did figure out a brilliant escape, and played me to a stalemate (which we declared after another 4 months). He never explained why he disappeared, and a few weeks after the game was over, he dropped off the face of the earth (as far as I could tell). He closed his email account, and when I tried to Google him, nothing came up.

 

that. is. awesome!

[greg_r 83]

Welcome vilan! Good to have you back in the fold

 

Thanks for your additions to my tongue-in-cheek 'history' post (which has a history of its own ). Suffice it to say that it tells of some of the later events but was never intended to tell more than the roots of this particular board - I'll re-visit it at some point with the info you've shared, though - thank you!

[vilan 0]

Chief Hamster Wrangler:

 

From what I can see, the RWG site today is like a jet plane, and by comparison, our original sites were like Model T' Fords. You guys are really impressive, and have fulfilled here amply what Andreas and I set out to accomplish.

[greg_r 83]

Chief Hamster Wrangler:

 

From what I can see, the RWG site today is like a jet plane, and by comparison, our original sites were like Model T' Fords. You guys are really impressive, and have fulfilled here amply what Andreas and I set out to accomplish.

 

Thank you - that's quite a compliment

[trailboss99 996]

If you want to see how serious the comparisons with the gen can get these days I suggest you drop next door to RWI and take a look at ALE's Pam Reference Review Guide: http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/reference-pam-review-107365.html as an example.

[vilan 0]

Night Watchman:

 

I am blown away by what I saw at http://www.replica-w...iew-107365.html especially the gallery of straps.

 

By the way I was surprised to discover that there are excellent reps of Panerai watches that sell for about $60 at aliexpress.com (if you monitor that site vigilantly). The sellers must be forced by Alibaba to take down the offerings of replica watches after a few hours, but when they are up, the watches there look like the $500 reps, which look like the $9,000 gens.

 

I know a guy who has one of those $60 Panerai reps and he put on it a $400 shell cordovan strap. What is interesting to me is that I hated the Panerai watches and thought they were, for the most part, clunky and ugly. I read the postings of people who rhapsodized over them without being able to grasp what they saw in the Panerai watches. Gradually, however, I got brainwashed by what was being written, and what really sold me was the different straps- which appealed more to me than the watches. I bought each of the models offered in 2004 -2006 (about 8 watches) and got straps from all the well known makers at the time (and found the Bob brand the best value). However, the next wave of Panerai watches fixed the inadequate crown, and I developed an obsession to replace all the crowns on my Panerais. I started to send my Panerai watches to the watchmakers who were posting on the site and offering to make mod-corrections to the Panerai crowns (the automatics only since the stem on the crown of the swan neck movements was too short to fix). The cost of each repair was about the same as I paid for each watch-but I had the investment in the strap to protect (I rationalized to myself). Yet, no sooner did I get back the watchers with fat crowns from the watchmakers when people started to post on the site about new and more accurate hands on the most recent set of Panerais. I was about to put all of my Panerai watches back into the FedEx boxes and send them back to the watchmaker for new hands when it hit me- on reflection, after the infatuation period was over, I concluded I was right in my original view- the Panerai watches were indeed clunky and ugly.

 

I still display them, but rarely wear them--not due to the slight imperfection in the hands, but because to my eyes, they are clunky and ugly.

[Electrobrat 0]

Cool.

[trailboss99 996]

LOL, Pams have that effect, for some reason Pam lovers are one of the most anal breeds along with the AP boys.

It's impossible to own just one Pam, I have at least a dozen of the damn things now.

[Baldrick 1]

Welcome back to the fold Vilan, interesting stuff, I was there at the onset of Andreas first site, (Replica Watch Collectors Club)......what was your ID on there ?

[Electrobrat 0]

LOL, Pams have that effect, for some reason Pam lovers are one of the most anal breeds along with the AP boys.

It's impossible to own just one Pam, I have at least a dozen of the damn things now.

Pams are cool and very classy plus you can go for the 253 if you want a touch of class with a sporty feel. I like the vast amount of straps available too that give you the option to adapt the appearance.

 

Welcome back.

[parisianshut 0]

Night Watchman:

 

I am happy to see your post, and that you remember me. The last I heard of Andreas was when we were playing chess over the Internet where each guy could take as much time as he wanted (I mean days or weeks or even years). In between moves we would chat by email about watches and life. I got him in a position where I was sure I had him beat (after 3 months of play). He did not respond to the game or my emails for about a year, and I thought he died. However, one day I got a notice that my opponent in the chess game had made a move. I could not believe it. Moreover, I do not know if I was more interested in finding out what happened to Andreas, or to find out what his move would be. Well, he did figure out a brilliant escape, and played me to a stalemate (which we declared after another 4 months). He never explained why he disappeared, and a few weeks after the game was over, he dropped off the face of the earth (as far as I could tell). He closed his email account, and when I tried to Google him, nothing came up.

 

that. is. awesome!

 

make a movie about the REP WORLD !!!

[Electrobrat 0]

Night Watchman:

 

I am happy to see your post, and that you remember me. The last I heard of Andreas was when we were playing chess over the Internet where each guy could take as much time as he wanted (I mean days or weeks or even years). In between moves we would chat by email about watches and life. I got him in a position where I was sure I had him beat (after 3 months of play). He did not respond to the game or my emails for about a year, and I thought he died. However, one day I got a notice that my opponent in the chess game had made a move. I could not believe it. Moreover, I do not know if I was more interested in finding out what happened to Andreas, or to find out what his move would be. Well, he did figure out a brilliant escape, and played me to a stalemate (which we declared after another 4 months). He never explained why he disappeared, and a few weeks after the game was over, he dropped off the face of the earth (as far as I could tell). He closed his email account, and when I tried to Google him, nothing came up.

 

that. is. awesome!

 

make a movie about the REP WORLD !!!

Cracking idea.

[offshore 0]

Hi vilan,

I also am from back in those times although I came onto the scene a little after friend Baldrick here.

Was originally on TRC under a different nom de plume, however I joined the original (Blade) RWG on its opening day as "Offshore" and have been around pretty much non stop ever since. Still a couple of others from those days who are reasonably regular visitors, and we do have a couple of others who pass by.

Baldrick, ( whose memory is better than mine ) will remember all those from back in those days.

 

Here is a little bit of the history as i remember things-

 

1999-2000 World of Watches- a chat board for (mainly) scammers, which still exists today.

2001- early 2002. RWCC Replica Watch Collectors Club- established by “Andre” Had problems, ( I think this was the WLD - Watch Lover David scam) and the board passéd to TVT- (who is still around) and could fill in some gaps) Thomas was also active on this board. The board slowed and Neil (TTK) and Richard Brown started another board using the same layout as RWCC ( don’t know what this was called….??RWCC version 2… Neil could tell!)

In Oct 2002 TRC started up lead by Thomas of course. He is the admin now at RWG2.

Some time later Rongroms set up Watch Trader, more as a trading area, than a forum, due mainly to ongoing pressure on trading in reps.

I honestly can’t remember if it was before or after RWG set up, which was June 2004.

Also consider that some of the scam rep sites,(from around 2002) were running “forums”, to which no one could post!!!. The only info available was of their own design.

Richard Brown, who had been a strong member @ TRC, launched his site Replica Watch Report, on top of his book of the same name.

By Dec 2005, problems were evident at RWG(1) ( Guide).

The founder, Blade, was ever increasingly absent, an RWG watch commissioned for the members was way overdue, (and monies missing)

In the New Year of 2006, Blade was gone, and the board floundered along, becoming increasingly volatile.

Some mods & senior members were trying to sort things, but by April, the decision to ‘abandon’ was reached,…..KBerg had contacted Thomas, and RWG2 (Group) was born, and launched in June 2004. At the very same time, Timm ( drcmaster), who had been a bit member @ RWG1, launched RWI.

Essentially the “older” more established members went to RWG2, whilst the rowdy, more volatile, arrived at RWI.

Also around the same time, (within weeks) another short term RWG’er launched a site called Rep Fanatics,… it died a sorry death thru neglect.

Finally, earlier that year??... Rep Geeks. Spawned off RWI, due in part to perceived problems with Timm ( drcmaster) who eventually did a Blade… and disappeared… again with some members funds!

 

That sort of takes us up to around 2007.

Would be interesting if anyone can flesh this out or build on the latter happenings.

 

Offshore

[Baldrick 1]

Offshore sums it and nails it precisely

 

@OS.......you mention that Teevtee is still around.....really?.......on the forums......?

[baxter 6]

This thread is one of the most interesting reads for a while ... thanks for all the history.