The right tools & equipment really do make things easier. DWO removal tool merged

[DR3M3L 6]

Thats fine, each of us have our own preferences. You really should try the optivisor though mate, its quite light, its not a heavy thing.

 

I'll for sure, but at this point money goes to other needed tools and diapers

[SSTEEL 0]

Of course, you have a little one. Family will always come first Hope all is well.

[DR3M3L 6]

All is very well But I still need a new waterresistance tester..

[Odyseus 1]

I don't know where you guys find the time??? I've spend over two weeks stripping down and servicing a Vostok Amphibia and I haven't even re-lumed it yet I could never provide a member service as I'm too lazy I guess !!

[SSTEEL 0]

Make time John Luckily I don't really have any other commitments other than the usual husband chores :P

 

All is very well But I still need a new waterresistance tester..

 

There was a Bergeon 5555/98 on the bay earlier, I think there was an option to offer a price too.

[DR3M3L 6]

Make time John Luckily I don't really have any other commitments other than the usual husband chores :P

All is very well But I still need a new waterresistance tester..

 

There was a Bergeon 5555/98 on the bay earlier, I think there was an option to offer a price too.

 

Hmm going to check it out, thanks!

[Aren 27]

I forgot to mention, got these two baskets for my ultrasonic cleaners. I do plan on investing in a proper watch parts cleaner though at some point, but for now, I have the industrial cleaner, used for cases, bezels, and bracelets, and the small parts cleaner for watch parts (special solution mixture)..

 

 

 

Hi Micky and all

 

I really like your cleaning baskets. Cleaning baskets are pricey IMO. I have fine tea strainers but am aiming higher.

 

You mentioned parts cleaner "special solution"? You have my attention!

This is an area where I am having problems and need some help and suggestions.

 

The industrial cleaners are not for pocket watches or antique watches. The ultrasonic cleaners (according to my research) can remove the finish from the bridges and plates of antique watches.

I am concerned with chemicals/flashpoint/fumes/disposal...the usual concerns I guess.

I want ammonia free cleaner and don't like the idea of naptha.

Gun solvents are certainly too harsh.

I have concerns about water based cleaners because of the potential for rust.

I don't see a good solution (no pun)

 

I don't want to ask on NAWCC because that would be like asking "who has the best sub?"

 

Cas-Ker makes a waterless cleaner/rinse. It is supposedly eco-friendly and it isn't ammoniated.

Does anyone have experience with this product?

Are their any other recommended products safe for antique watches?

 

I think I already made a mistake with the Hoppes oil and need to correct it. I ordered Mosier oil, but

now from the Hoppes, I probably need more aggressive cleaner ... and don't want anything which will dissolve the shellac holding the jewels.

I don't want a combination cleaner/oil either. I am a noob, but not that ignorant, and want to do a proper job.

I don't want to make another mistake like the oil with a cleaner.

Some of these solutions are unbelievably expensive so an economical suggestion would also be most welcome.

 

I know...I want to have it all...in just one product. Does such a thing even exist?

Did I mention that a one-dip solution would also be nice.

Do I want too much and am just too picky?

 

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

 

WOW ... great Bergeon tools Micky...so nice. Congratulations...your tool bench is to be admired

 

all

[SSTEEL 0]

You are right Aren, you have to be very careful with what solutions you use in your Ultrasonic cleaner, this is why I have two, the industrial for heavy-duty parers like cases, bracelets, and general cleaning, and the small ultrasonic for cleaning small watch movement parts. Its not ideal, but it works for me until I invest in the correct three jar cleaning system machine specifically for watch parts. Its the solution found in one of these that I have in my small ultrasonic cleaner.

 

I use for now the recipe posted by Michael in the link below from NAWCC (National Association of Watch & Clock).

 

http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?70900-Cleaning-Solution-Recipe

 

Eventually I will invest in one of these, and then will use the correct solutions in each jar, with the final stage a heater drier.

 

Example...

 

[SSTEEL 0]

Oh Aren, I forgot to mention, I use small glass jars too with solution in, and put small parts in the jars, and put them in the ultrasonic cleaner. The ultrasonic waves pass through the glass enough to let the solution in the jars clean the parts. The solutions are available from L & R, and Horotec.

 

Here's one of the solutions I use...

 

 

Available from cousinsuk.

 

https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/consumables/watch-cleaning-rinsing-rust-removing-fluids/fluid-greiner-watch-cleaning-concentrate#select

[Aren 27]

You are right Aren, you have to be very careful with what solutions you use in your Ultrasonic cleaner, this is why I have two, the industrial for heavy-duty parers like cases, bracelets, and general cleaning, and the small ultrasonic for cleaning small watch movement parts. Its not ideal, but it works for me until I invest in the correct three jar cleaning system machine specifically for watch parts. Its the solution found in one of these that I have in my small ultrasonic cleaner.

 

I use for now the recipe posted by Michael in the link below from NAWCC (National Association of Watch & Clock).

 

http://mb.nawcc.org/...Solution-Recipe

 

Eventually I will invest in one of these, and then will use the correct solutions in each jar, with the final stage a heater drier.

 

Example...

 

 

I am a member at NAWCC Micky and read that thread. I don't have an ultra sonic cleaner but saw one for $99.

Since they can harm antique watches it isn't a good investment for me.

I don't want to make solution and was hoping to get a ready made one so I don't risk messing things up.

It is normal to make mistakes, and I expect to make more of them, but I am trying to minimize them.

I have a three jar cleaning system, but it is made by "Ball Mason", and it's Spanish...Manuel

 

Trailboss was kind enough to help me in the SB today and I think I will move in that direction.

 

I also need some screw oil and that will make things easier I think.

 

I get a little alarmed when I see WD40 comments. One of my PWs has a yellow oil coating on under sides of the plates and bridges and the inside of the case.

It may be that someone just sprayed it with oil to sell it.

It is my hope and aim that my work will not be that brutish or messy...

although the use of gun oil was noob ignorance.

 

From now on, if I can't find the solution after a reasonable amount of research, I am just going to ask.

I don't ask questions on NAWCC.

I don't want to be making anyone crazy here either...there is enough of that already. I am hoping to meet a watchmaking hobbist in my County in the near future and hope that will be helpful. That way, I can put the problems I can't solve on hold and move to another project instead of ...

 

My days for working on watches are numbered and then, I may not be able to start again until next winter.

 

Thanks for your help and the courtesy of the reply. I hope you get the three jar cleaning system.

[Aren 27]

Oh Aren, I forgot to mention, I use small glass jars too with solution in, and put small parts in the jars, and put them in the ultrasonic cleaner. The ultrasonic waves pass through the glass enough to let the solution in the jars clean the parts. The solutions are available from L & R, and Horotec.

 

Here's one of the solutions I use...

Available from cousinsuk.

 

https://www.cousinsu...centrate#select

 

I will look up the MSDS on this solution when I have more time.

 

Thanks again for the help. It is greatly and gratefully appreciated.

[SSTEEL 0]

Another day, and another delivery of odds and sods from Cousinsuk.

 

There's a seller on eBay selling watchmakers green bench mats for £10.95 plus £9.99 shipping. Cheeky sod gets them direct from cousinsuk, which sell them for just over £5 each. I grabbed a few lol. Exact same packaging, and even the writing on the packet is the same

 

 

Mine is overdue replacement lol

 

 

An A*F screwdriver stand tool, much needed for AP models when removing straps.

 

 

Mini bench vise, ideal for those small jobs.

 

 

And finally some parts, stem extensions, click springs etc

[DR3M3L 6]

Another great order Micky! I'm currently waiting for a big order from cousins, one from ebay and one from the RWG shop. In the meantime I really need to buy a second desk to work on which brings me the ability to look at a real watchmakers table..... Those look awesome! What kind of chair are you using when working on the watches? My neck gets stuck after a couple of hours working so I'm currently sitting on a small box so I'm working on the same height as the desk with my arms.

[Wiz 0]

Hi Micky and all

 

I really like your cleaning baskets. Cleaning baskets are pricey IMO. I have fine tea strainers but am aiming higher.

 

You mentioned parts cleaner "special solution"? You have my attention!

This is an area where I am having problems and need some help and suggestions.

 

The industrial cleaners are not for pocket watches or antique watches. The ultrasonic cleaners (according to my research) can remove the finish from the bridges and plates of antique watches.

I am concerned with chemicals/flashpoint/fumes/disposal...the usual concerns I guess.

I want ammonia free cleaner and don't like the idea of naptha.

Gun solvents are certainly too harsh.

I have concerns about water based cleaners because of the potential for rust.

I don't see a good solution (no pun)

 

I don't want to ask on NAWCC because that would be like asking "who has the best sub?"

 

Cas-Ker makes a waterless cleaner/rinse. It is supposedly eco-friendly and it isn't ammoniated.

Does anyone have experience with this product?

Are their any other recommended products safe for antique watches?

 

I think I already made a mistake with the Hoppes oil and need to correct it. I ordered Mosier oil, but

now from the Hoppes, I probably need more aggressive cleaner ... and don't want anything which will dissolve the shellac holding the jewels.

I don't want a combination cleaner/oil either. I am a noob, but not that ignorant, and want to do a proper job.

I don't want to make another mistake like the oil with a cleaner.

Some of these solutions are unbelievably expensive so an economical suggestion would also be most welcome.

 

I know...I want to have it all...in just one product. Does such a thing even exist?

Did I mention that a one-dip solution would also be nice.

Do I want too much and am just too picky?

 

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

 

WOW ... great Bergeon tools Micky...so nice. Congratulations...your tool bench is to be admired

 

all

 

Some time ago I spent a lot of time researching that very topic, so maybe I can offer some help.

 

Out of all the cleaning solutions I tested, in my opinion the best si Elma 1:9.

 

You need your parts to go in 3 the separate bathes. First, Elma 1:9, then demineralized water, and finish with a rinsing product like Elma Suprol.

 

Forget about the finishing products that are doing both rinsing/lubing. They're more expensive and there is no proof they are any better, many people say it's just marketing to sell something new.

 

The best is of course to use them in a cleaning machine. "Rotating" ones are the cheapest, but they're not the best. I have an Elma SuperElite but I don't use it much anymore. I also have a vibrasonic that works way better in my opinion.

 

The vibrasonic is ultrasonic, but it doesn't work on the same frequencies as regular ultrasonic cleaners.

 

The reason for this is that "regular" ultrasonic cleaners remove a little metal on the parts because of the friction of parts together or parts and baskets. You can clearly see it as the parts look very shinny when they come out of a regular ultrasonic cleaner.

 

I asked several watchmakers about this. None recommended this type of cleaner for watch movement parts, as it can cause problem on the long run. I then asked if it was that bad is used only one time, they said maybe not, but you still have the risk of breaking jewels, even if that's not something that remains rare.

 

Also, never, ever put a pallet fork in an ultrasonic cleaner, of any kind, and some watchmakers I talked to said to avoid at all cost putting the hairspring in a regular ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Hope it helped.

[SSTEEL 0]

Great info Wiz, thanks, much appreciated mate.

[SSTEEL 0]

Another great order Micky! I'm currently waiting for a big order from cousins, one from ebay and one from the RWG shop. In the meantime I really need to buy a second desk to work on which brings me the ability to look at a real watchmakers table..... Those look awesome! What kind of chair are you using when working on the watches? My neck gets stuck after a couple of hours working so I'm currently sitting on a small box so I'm working on the same height as the desk with my arms.

 

Currently a watch parts eating computer chair lol, it has to go, will give it my daughter as its not suitable at all for watchmaking at all.

 

I usually kneel down, and park my bum on the back of my shins when I do really close up, delicate work. Obviously a proper watchmakers bench would be better, but instead of me investing in one, I have another idea, and that is to raise my work benches, should be easy enough with some creative thinking.

 

While I'm at it, I plan on building some drawers for underneath too, and some drawers on rails to slide out to access my stock.

 

As you can see, my work benches of packed due to no storage. Not going to bother with the bench rising, and drawers until next year though as we have to move out our apartment April 2015, so I will do it when we are back and settled. Really dreading having to move, so much to package up securely.

 

I will also be putting up some shelves, and reduce the amount of clutter I have, whilst most of it is handy to have at reach in those two wooden drawers, its a nightmare when a part goes AWOL on you.

 

Here's a few quick photos shooing you that due to no storage/drawers/cabinets right now, bench workspace has been optimised and organised for a queuing system, and waiting area.

 

[Aren 27]

Some time ago I spent a lot of time researching that very topic, so maybe I can offer some help...

 

Thank you Wiz. Great info. I wouldn't consider an ultra sonic cleaner. I am concerned about the finish on the antique pocket watch movement parts, especially the gilt ones. I already knew not to put the pallet fork or mainspring into cleaner, but thank you and it is good info for others to know also. Some of my pocket watches have jeweled levers but many have pin pallets. I wouldn't risk dislodging a jewel and won't put the pin levers in either since I would not be able to replace them and can't build them. I only do the most basic things ATM and appreciate your taking the time to provide more info.

 

I am building up my tools and equipment slowly and trying to do a proper job. I buy vintage and antique tools, and hope to buy from the RWG shop. Trailboss always has the answers and is great to deal with.

I like to research and also ask in the threads, even if is reveals what a noob I am.

Threads like this one help provide information to everyone.

 

Great info Wiz, thanks, much appreciated mate.

 

Micky your work space looks amazing. I am going to bring my antique drafting table to this house to use as a bench. When the table is adjusted to flat, it will be tall enough so I can stand up to work on watches. I am expecting to get a 20 drawer work bench which I can sit at, when the local gent retires. I prefer to stand. I plan to put shelves on the wall so that I can put compartmentalized drawers on them which can be lifted down for easier access. I hope it all comes together.

 

I need to find Kcore's post about the (cheapie) visor. I bought the OptiVisor and the Visor Kcore recommended. OptiVisor was $35 USD and a better buy with the shipping from Amazon than Ebay. The Chinese Visor was less than $10 USD and I am very happy I purchased it.

After using both visors, I must say, I prefer the Chinese visor to the OptiVisor. The Chinese Visor not only has a brightness adjustable light mounted on it, it has a couple of lens (one which folds up into the Visor) and a loop with 3X mag which can be folded down...this all for under $10 USD. I was surprised at how much I like the Chinese Visor. I think the Chinese may have an industrial need in their manufacturing work places for a good a versatile visor and probably just markets them too. I would recommend either Visor, but having had and used both, I prefer the Chinese Visor. It seems durable and is well worth having. I will order another one as a spare. If I had to choose between the two visors, I would take the Chinese visor. With the 3x mag drop down loop, I can see to access the tiniest screws with greater ease and accuracy. Some of these tiny screws are the size of a flake of pepper. Some might not think screw removal is a job for accuracy, but it is if you don't want to scratch something or damage a screw head you need precise vision.

 

I have learned that a good Visor is not a nice to have, but a must have for any delicate work. I wish I had this Visor the last time I needed to remove porcupine quills from one of my dogs. I can now think of many uses for a visor I didn't imagine.

 

Thanks everyone for all of the help in this thread and also privately. Much appreciated. :cheerleader2:

 

RWG

[SSTEEL 0]

Got a link to the exact Chinese visor you prefer Aren? I'm intrigued to try one now lol

[DR3M3L 6]

Got a link to the exact Chinese visor you prefer Aren? I'm intrigued to try one now lol

 

Same here, sound good for less

[Aren 27]

Ok...here is the Visor I like...

http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I am pretty sure this is the one Kcore recommended. I bought this one and just ordered a spare.

Sorry I didn't post the link

This visor may not be for everyone, but I like it and would recommend it, especially for the price.

Please be sure to read the reviews. I thought it was well worth it for the price, but I don't wear it all day long.

 

I did nothing but practice putting screws in and taking them out for quite a while before I tried to learn anything else.

This was a challenging exercise for me and I am patient and careful.

This is a hard skill to master IMO, especially on the old watches.

I know it sounds crazy to do this (screw job) exercise, but I found it really important.

Now, especially with the Visors, (either)

I can do it with much greater ease and proficiency.

Of course, repetition is the mother of skill.

 

I want to get some screw oil, for the really difficult screw jobs

[SSTEEL 0]

Thanks again Aren I will get one of those to try out

[SSTEEL 0]

I found this one, its looks identical.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-10X-Lighted-Magnifying-Glass-LED-Head-Headband-Magnifier-Loupe-W-Sunshield-/180832835314?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_JewelleryBoxes_Supplies_CA&hash=item2a1a7a16f2

 

£5.35GBP Delivered!

[DR3M3L 6]

I found this one, its looks identical.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-10X-Lighted-Magnifying-Glass-LED-Head-Headband-Magnifier-Loupe-W-Sunshield-/180832835314?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_JewelleryBoxes_Supplies_CA&hash=item2a1a7a16f2

 

£5.35GBP Delivered!

 

That's insane! Ordering one just to check it out

[SSTEEL 0]

I will be once I get some spare pocket change Its a bargain at that price, you would pay that just for the led's lol.

[Aren 27]

I will be once I get some spare pocket change Its a bargain at that price, you would pay that just for the led's lol.

 

Well, my goal right now is to "Do No Harm" and the Visor's certainly help ... significantly.

Let us know what you think and I hope you aren't disappointed.