Guide - Using a 3D Printed DWO Tool to Assist Alignment of a DWO 2824-2

[LightGeek 25]

I think what would work is to permanently fit pins into the tool (I might try a couple of Vero pins?), so you can use that as a dummy dial instead of having to keep fitting the real dial to see if the DWO is aligned.

 

I managed to align the DWO on my DSSD though but it's pretty hard to do

 

 

The tool would have to be perfect. You may find it's the dial that is off a lot of the times. On three watches I ended up adjusting the dial position by tapping it against the table instead of moving the overlay.

[Aren 27]

I enjoyed the tutorial, but wouldn't dream of doing anything like this myself. Great step by step photos.

Looks like a fantastic job and nice work.

Was the temporary support brace modeling clay, plumbers putty, ...?

 

Well done !!!

Thanks for sharing.

[SSTEEL 0]

Right. The idea is to glue Bergeon replacement dial feet (drop them into the tool's ETA holes from above). That way it works like a dummy dial. The DWO drying time is still a problem unless you have a lot of patience like SS.

 

Do you think it would help to cut more material away so you have more space to manipulate the DWO? Sorry to hear about your trouble :(

 

Yes, removing more material should help. Also if the Bergeon dial feet idea works, as in, they are thick enough to hold the tool in firmly, then that should make things easier.

 

As to the glue curing too quickly, I use just the one part epoxy resin without the second part/hardener. This gives plenty of time to align, then once aligned, store in dust free area for 72 hours, this is enough time for the epoxy to set.

[Odyseus 1]

Right. The idea is to glue Bergeon replacement dial feet (drop them into the tool's ETA holes from above). That way it works like a dummy dial. The DWO drying time is still a problem unless you have a lot of patience like SS.

 

Do you think it would help to cut more material away so you have more space to manipulate the DWO? Sorry to hear about your trouble :(

 

Yes, removing more material should help. Also if the Bergeon dial feet idea works, as in, they are thick enough to hold the tool in firmly, then that should make things easier.

 

As to the glue curing too quickly, I use just the one part epoxy resin without the second part/hardener. This gives plenty of time to align, then once aligned, store in dust free area for 72 hours, this is enough time for the epoxy to set.

 

Micky what epoxy do you use?? All the Araldites I have tried will only ever cure when you mix hardener 50/50.

 

Using GS cement and Tacky glue, they both cured very quickly so that I couldn't easily turn the DWO. I had to get the alignment pretty damn close in the first place, so I only needed small movements !

[SSTEEL 0]

I will find a link to the stuff I use and post it here

[SSTEEL 0]

I can't find the exact type I use, so could get a photo to show. The hardener smells terrible, and I don't use it when doing DWO's, and the one part takes 72+ hours to set, and its too long for me so I've been looking for an alternative, and come across this one..

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item19b6446bd0

 

Gives you 5 minutes of repositioning time.

 

If you want longer, then this two-part-epoxy gives you 30 minutes, and is probably preferred.

 

Very High Quality Slow-Cure 30 Min Epoxy Glue 128g UK

 

Loctite 635 is a good retainer too, slow cure..

 

LOCTITE 635 x 50ml High Strength Slow Cure Retaining Compound

[Odyseus 1]

As a side, did someone mention that there was a seller on RG, supplying DWO??

I've now aligned the one in my DSSD but have three spare 2836 movements, that I would like to fit a Rolex style DWO. (For use UN GMT, Sub or DSSD reps)

[SSTEEL 0]

Not heard of any seller, but if you find them, link to them here please, Overlays come in handy. Oh, hang on a minute, you're not referring to the guy who prints his own onto paper, then you need to make your own disc to stick it to?

[Odyseus 1]

Not heard of any seller, but if you find them, link to them here please, Overlays come in handy. Oh, hang on a minute, you're not referring to the guy who prints his own onto paper, then you need to make your own disc to stick it to?

 

You could probably glue the paper overlay onto the actual DW ?? I might have a try at using some LaserTran??

Need to find some design info on making a DWO??

[SSTEEL 0]

I can't see why not. The only issue would be the paper absorbing the adhesive, and ripping. In other words, not very practical mate.

[SSTEEL 0]

Bit of an update, and something new I have tried with success with this 3d printed tool.

 

Once the old date has been refitted to the movement after sanding it down, with the date wheel overlay also sanded down on its rear, what I have done, is put two lengths of snuggly fitted long dial feet into the holes so there is around 10mm protruding above the date wheel.

 

Then, apply slow curing adhesive to the date wheel surface, and then lightly grease the date wheel overlay printed surface so it safely adheres to the 3d printed tool, and align the overlay so its perfectly aligned in all the windows in the tool, then once happy with its alignment, attach the 3d printed tool to those extended dial feet I mentioned earlier.

 

Slowly slowly, lowering/sliding down the tool towards the movement, nice and evenly, once the overlay reaches the date wheel, one last final check, and if all good, apply some weight so that the slow cure adhesive can work its magic. I use a round anvil as a weight.

 

So far, this to me is the best and easiest option with this tool. Once everything is set, simply wipe away the grease from the printed side of the overlay, and then you are good to go.

[SSTEEL 0]

Here's photos in order of the above mentioned process, the only thing different is the final clamping/weight, my round anvil doesn't fit with the long dial feet in position, so simply used a spare movement holder, and some weight on it to allow the slow cure adhesive to adhere. (little excessive I know, and would be fine with just the movement holder as a weight).

 

Onto those photos.

 

First up, get together a working platform for your dwo, your grease, and some peg wood..

 

 

Apply a thin coat of grease around the inner area of the overlay..

 

 

Next, make sure you orientate your dwo tool in the right position as to accept the dial feet positions, and place the tool onto your greased overlay..

 

 

Don't worry about any grease seeping into the windows of the tool, this can be cleaned off later. Manipulate the overlay, aligning the date nice and square in all windows of the tool.

 

Get your Blue Peter earlier prepared movement..

 

 

As you can see, long dial feet, clamped into place firmly, so they won't sink when you attach your dwo tool with your greased/attached overlay..

 

 

Apply a thin layer of adhesive around the centre of the date wheel.

 

 

Now, the only tricky part, and thats fitting the dwo tool, and your overlay onto those posts, (long dial feet). A recommendation here would be to have maybe concave cylindrical cutouts on the rear of the dwo tool next version to assist with this job in hand..

 

 

Once tool is homed onto those posts, lower slowly, and squarely.

 

 

Then after final checked, clamp into place. As said, this is OTT but you get the point. In actual fact, this method does not need slow cure adhesive at all, and one could use a very fast curing adhesive now. If you prefer a slow cure, then you can get this epoxy on the bay of fleas..

 

 

 

Recommendations are to sand both the date wheel (once removed from movement), and the underside of the date wheel overlay. Doing this will ensure a good adhere with your adhesive.

 

Hope you enjoyed following this guide, its the best I have come up with using this prototype tool. I'm sure with some planned improvements, fitting overlays will become so much easier

[jerkstore 14]

Wow. That's a great guide, M!

 

Let's PM about what you'd like to see on the next version, and I can make those fixes. Fantastic.

[SSTEEL 0]

Wow. That's a great guide, M!

 

Let's PM about what you'd like to see on the next version, and I can make those fixes. Fantastic.

 

Pm sent Mike Here's pretty much what I sent, I guess this following additional info should help anyone else who plans on using my method.

 

I want to own the rights of the snowflake date wheel overlay tool btw Only kidding :P

 

Hi Mike,

 

It works well for the 2824, and 2836, but with some movements where the date wheel is more sunken, its best to use very small amount of expanding glue, Gorilla Glue, but only small tiny dots placed on the dw, 12, 3, 6, and 9. You could also use some layers of clear ziplock parts bags to space it out a little, as you can see from my photos, the tool rests on the movement circumference, hence the need for these spacers. I guess I should look into making some from thin pvc sheets maybe. (need to investigate this further).

 

Grease is just normal cheap Anchor grease.

 

The long dial feet are actually spare precision screwdriver blades, 1.5mm if my memory serves me correctly. I was going to order some brass rods which watchmakers use for the dial feet but felt that this length it may of not been firm enough for when attaching the dwo tool onto the pins (screwdriver blades are better/firmer/solid).

 

With this method it is possibly to even use super glue, but I wouldn't personally, in case you need to remove it again.

 

I récemment that one removes the date wheel itself and remove the old printed date wheel from the brass ring, and etch the surface. Also etch the dwo back, doing this will help assist with the adhere of the glue used.

Glues which I have had success with thus far rate..

 

GS Hypo Cement

2 part epoxy resin (normal)

2 part epoxy resin (30 minute slow cure)

Multipurpose Gorilla Glue - (needs to be the type which expands when in contact with water. Water is not needed, it will expand anyway, just slower in curing) I have noticed however, using this, sometimes the dwo alignment has been fine, but once the curing process shifted the dwo a fraction. It was still acceptable, but being a perfectionist like myself, I had to remove, and redo.

 

Very important! - If using Gorilla expanding glue, only use very small dots as during curing it expands to 3 times its size.

 

 

When following the guide I posted next door, just before clamping into place with a weight, you need to check that the overlay has made contact with the glue. The first time I did it, I didn't check, and the dwo come off.

 

As for improvements :-

 

If you could create the tool in snowflake form, ie> so it looks like a snowflake, skeletonised as it were, more windows, and more open areas for manipulation.

 

The holes for the dial feet in the tool, maybe cone them on the underside, concave shape, this will help assist with the only tricky part of this method, locating, and securing the dwo tool onto your screwdriver blades. You lock the screwdriver blades in the movement as you would do with the dial.

 

Once all done, and glue is set, remove clamping/weight, remove dwo tool, unclamp the screwdriver blades, and extract them, then go ahead and clean of the excess grease, and your good to go.

 

 

Hope this helps further.

 

Micky

[SSTEEL 0]

Ok, I have been working this morning on improving the 3d printed dwo tool whilst waiting for the new model to come together

 

First find an old clear parts storage container that you don't mind butchering.

 

Place the date wheel onto the plastic container, and draw a ring around it with a pelt tip pen...

 

 

Remove the date wheel, then proceed to heat up an x-acto knife until it glows red, and cut the clear disc out of the lid.

 

 

Don't worry about it not being perfectly round at this stage as it will go into the dremel shortly.

 

 

Using the dwo tool as a template, mark the centre point in the clear disc.

 

 

Then with a drill, or dremel, drill the hole..

 

 

Fit the disc to your dremel tool..

 

 

Laying some sandpaper down on your bench, proceed to evenly sand down the disc..

 

 

Hand finish the disc if needed.

 

Lay the clear disc onto the 3d printed tool to ensure all windows in the tool are covered by the disc.

 

 

In the above photo, its not in the correct orientation, and the plan is, when I have a little more time, I will bond the disc to the underside of there 3d tool, using glue in-between the windows, basically, all white areas.

 

One may think this is an OTT job for such a small watchmaking job, but its not, this tool once completed will ensure fitting a dwo to a fitted dw is a piece of cake, and will come in handy very frequently

[SSTEEL 0]

Update from the above modifications.

 

Cleaned the clear disc up, removing scratches with cape cod, remember, we need to view the date through this. Once cleaned, I prepared for bonding it to the underside of the 3d tool, and I started to look for something suitable to clamp the two parts together whilst glue curing, but dremel screw was too big for the 3d tool hole..

 

 

So I turned to my spare screwdriver blades once more, and found one with a nice snug fit into the 3d tool centre hole.

 

 

Applied a few scattered carefully placed dots of Gorilla Glue. This stuff expands slightly during curing as mentioned earlier, so right now, this is unchartered water doing this seeing as this is modding a prototype tool. I'm hoping it will bond ok, and I will be able to see through the pvc screen once set.

 

 

Then add some weight while waiting for the bond to cure

 

The whole purpose of this is, as mentioned earlier, to improve this prototype 3d dwo tool so to enable an application of an overlay with the grease method shown earlier. The clear pvc tier will enable the overlay to be firmly pressed onto the date wheel while in situ.

[SSTEEL 0]

Update #2

 

After trial fitting the modified 3d dwo tool, I have found that instead of a disc, a clear flat pvc ring would actually work better, or a disc with a much larger hole in the middle. My findings are that due to the keyless works cover plate, even with this clear added tier, the disc is not sitting flat/flush.

 

I need to make some amendments if my next dwo install fails with this modified tool.

 

I will update as and when I next put it to use with the grease application method.